Intend to up from 1300 crossflow to somethingtht will give me 150 bhp.

Despite having 2 zetec (oh dear ), I have ruled those out and will be sticking to crossflow, 1700 ish. Will be keeping 4-2-1 exhaust and twin delorto 40s but may go to bike TBs.

1. To get 150 bhp, what sort of mods (& costs) are involved?
2. Does the crank need special treatment other than balancing?
3. Will 1300 cc flywheel be lighter than 1600?
4. Cam choice?
5. Head mods?
6. Can a 1300 be fitted with 1600 crank? I know that shorter con-rods are needed but will they be ££££, and is there enough cylinder wall for it? (assume not otherwise Ford would not make a taller block?)
7. What is approx. cost of rebore (to max. bore diameter)?: + pistons.
8. A tuning book, not the vizzard, mentions that going beyond 1720 cc requires liners or someting like that (damn, should I have remembered the correct terms) - anyone know about that?
9. Been told chambered head is better for getting more horses, anyone confirm this?

Buget is £ 500 so probably optimistic (but maybe something on ebay can be used as a starting point).

I don't know much about xflow's, but I gather you're better off with a 1600 block as it's taller and the rod angles are much better than the 1300 would be.

Ned.

for cost my vx 2ltr was about £80iirc for +2mm rebore (to 2.1) and acid clean/dip.

[Edited on 12/1/07 by ned]

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/cflow.htm

150 will be very hard and expensive.

A 1600 engine with 1300GT pistons, fast road cam and 40's will only give you around 110- 125BHP.

hi you will not get 150 bhp out of a 1600 xflow and pass the sva emissions test (not on a £500 pound budget eneyway). infact for £150 pound you will get nothing like 150 bhp you will need £1500.

i would not use the xflow engine and go for a toyota 4age engine if you get one out of a corolla gts (1989 to 1992) thay had 130 bhp to start with. they are about the same size weight.

ok priceing

1) a good 4age engine costs about £200 pound with wires and brain

2) a set of cams £360 (264 degrees hks)

3)remap ecu on roling road £150 to £200

this will give you a solid 150 -160 bhp (more like 150 with old rings and worn valve guides and such)

this engine will give you a better power dilivery than any xflow.

[Edited on 12/1/07 by quick n stuff]

[Edited on 12/1/07 by quick n stuff]

If you are going to spend £1500, buy an R1 injection 05. 182BHP as standard

Thats not really a darrenw type question - you have a budget!!!!!!

infamous at last!

ah, I forgot, should have said no BECs; 4age remotely but still thnk crossflow is the way.

emissions are not relevant - hopefully will be passed before my 6 mths retest time is up ... and that is just over 2 months where does the time go....?

added: it is not a question of getting max amount off power but something that slots in without any fuss; reasoning may be flawed but don't want bonnet bumps and the such.

ok, 150 may be optimistic but ......

[Edited on 12/1/07 by 02GF74]

Would be cheaper to go CVH (1.6 not 1.8) or even Zetec if you really want/need 150bhp and any drivability.

you will still need a minimum of £1500 pound to get 150 bhp

Hi no belhousing mentioned for the 4ag conversion above. Just drop a 2L zetec straight in and get the 165 bhp and a good spread of tourque. For ignition go with the mega watsit if on a budget no special parts required all been done by many people get an early silver top so you meet the less stringent emmisions.

To get a crossflow up to 150/160 bhp and reliable realisticaly budget for 2k +. This would be of simalar spec to the crossflows that run in the 750 kits not the locost as they are 1300cc.

cheers matt

PS. Should also mention the vx 2l 16v although NS DEV will be here soon to point you in the right direction with one of them. And no doubt that one of the HELLFIRE'S will also be here to suggest that any thing other than a bec is just not allowed. Altho i think some one above beat them to it this time.

[Edited on 12/1/07 by procomp]

quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
Thats not really a darrenw type question - you have a budget!!!!!!

---

you can get 150 bhp out of a cvh and pass the emitions but it will still cost mega bucks.

some 1.8 zetec have got 130 bhp as standard and will cost about the same as a 4age to get 150bhp and the power curve will be less revy but it is a heavier and bigger unit.

quote:

---

Originally posted by procomp
Hi no belhousing mentioned for the 4ag conversion above. Just drop a 2L zetec straight in and get the 165 bhp and a good spread of tourque. For ignition go with the mega watsit if on a budget no special parts required all been done by many people get an early silver top so you meet the less stringent emmisions.

To get a crossflow up to 150/160 bhp and reliable realisticaly budget for 2k +. This would be of simalar spec to the crossflows that run in the 750 kits not the locost as they are 1300cc.

cheers matt

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by quick n stuff
you can get 150 bhp out of a cvh and pass the emitions but it will still cost mega bucks.

some 1.8 zetec have got 130 bhp as standard and will cost about the same as a 4age to get 150bhp and the power curve will be less revy but it is a heavier and bigger unit.

---

the post was 150 bhp from a crossflow

quote:

---

Originally posted by iank

Any reason for the 150bhp value BTW?

---

Ah the good old CVH yep they can be taken upto 160bhp in 1600 form but only two companys capable of doing it properly. And they were costing £2700 min when we were doing them some years ago so probably more like £3000 min now.

So just no point now we have the zetec .

cheers matt

I have a 1660cc crossflow, which suits me down to the ground. It puts out around 100BHP with just minor upgrades and makes my car go plenty fast. I also love the old-fashioned noise it makes.

However, if I wanted a lot more power I wouldn't waste my money on this engine, much as I love it. My personal preference would be for a Toyota 4-AGE or, if I was feeling flush, a Duratec. Both will be far more modern, give loads of power in standard form, and have plenty of scope for improvement without massive investment.

cheers,
David

just thort rs tubo engine easy and cheep to get 160 bhp (may be a bit tricky geting a good one thow) lighter than a zetec lol

but from a cost poit of veiw the zetec is a good engine its not a bad tuning as well.

quote:

---

Originally posted by 02GF74

quote:

---

Originally posted by iank

Any reason for the 150bhp value BTW?

---

no valid reason other than that power should be more than enough for my driving ability, and is achievable on the crossflow (they can reach 200 but that would add a 0 to the budget and not for road use). seems a reasonable number that is about double of 1300 in standard form.

---

yep 180bhp MAX with super trooper mega stupa bucks.

I've got an x/f AX block sat in my garage. Make me a silly offer (and collect) and its yours....

Procomp should give an idea of what one is worth.

Hmm, nice to see Darrenw doesn't have a budget.

HELLO THERE MARRA

not really sure of the spec of my 1600 crossflow but it has been on a rolling road twice and both times produced a usable 156bhp on 45 webbers. It also passed the sva emissions no trouble. Good old crossflows!!

I have heard of 200bhp from an all steel 10k rpm race xflow before now. My mate use to run an f1300 xflow, they max'd out at 143/144bhp back in the day. That was using a 1600 block and rods to get the rod angles down, crazy cam and other appropriate bits to suit. used to break camshafts and crankshafts with some regularity iirc.

Ned.

i would take eney roling road teast witha pinch of salt when it comes to bhp at the fly wheel. they neely allways over estimate it.

there are 2 theroys on how to estimate transmition loses.

1) as the bhp gose up the transmition loses go up at the same rate.

2) because you are using the same gears and if there was no other change bar torque the losses will be about the same.

the truth is is somewhere in the middle. but you can get charts from the manufacturer (eg ford) on what losses you can exspect on a standard engine.

guse what thay do? yep youv got it thay just nock that off.

the only way to get a true reading is on a engine dino and the bhp will very from dino to dino (about 1%) so there is never a true reading

I also have a 1600 crossflow with 1300 pistons and injection , it is good to drive and sounds nice but i am looking for more power. I priced up the cost of a rebuild using standard rods and crank and cast pistons etc . found the basic parts come to over £600 to do it correctly, 150bhp would really require a decent head , cast pistons and steel crank and rods to be reliable . I have decided to fit an 1800 zetec which although a problem to fit under the bonnet will easily give me 150 hp when fitted with 2 litre cams and throttle bodies.
I also have a bike engine but decided against that due to needing reverse to get in and out of my drive.
My preference would be a 4age but it works out a lot more expensive with the bellhousing etc.
Paul.

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Jenkins
I have a 1660cc crossflow, which suits me down to the ground. It puts out around 100BHP with just minor upgrades and makes my car go plenty fast. I also love the old-fashioned noise it makes.

However, if I wanted a lot more power I wouldn't waste my money on this engine, much as I love it. My personal preference would be for a Toyota 4-AGE or, if I was feeling flush, a Duratec. Both will be far more modern, give loads of power in standard form, and have plenty of scope for improvement without massive investment.

cheers,
David

---

anuther one is if thay built the engine thay allways tell you you have a bit mor than youv got to make them look good.

Just as a thought, 120 bhp per litre isn't just bec territory, as I have an 1338 cc A series with 150-155 bhp. Just a little over 112 a litre, and with a rally cam in it. I daren't use the race scatter version!

Not wanting to be negative, cos I'm not like that, but 150hp from a crossflow is a race engine, and a serious one at that.

Its certainly possible, but if you can do it for £1500 you will have a queue at your door.

A chap I used to know had a 160hp all steel crossflow in a rally car, and that had set him back more than £5000 even doing everything himself (including a lot of the machining but not the grinding)

...and it's probably not a nice engine to drive - no tickover, and won't start to give power until way past 3000rpm. Not exactly a road engine!

David

1.The engine won't be nice for road use, loads of power at very high rpm and won't idle below 3000rpm i'd expect and would hunt like mad.

2.The engine I know of made the figures I stated on a dyno.

3.My 2.1 vx makes 220bhp which is more than 100bhp per litre and that's with a completely standard head

Ned.

agreed £1500 will get you a pretend 150bhp
and you would still have to do a lot of the work your self

for £1500 I recon you could do:

£150 1.8 zetec and some 2ltr 130 cams
£500 emerald ecu
£250 emerald map on rollers
£80 bike throttle bodies
£200 bogg bro's manifold

leaving £320 to find a s/h exhaust from some westfield owner upgrading to duratec (guessing this would be around the £200 mark)?

any change will help with sorting out hoses/plumbing, only other thing i can think of might be a polo rad if your current one can't cope.

existing gearbox and bellhousing should all mate up.

Anyone care to comment/correct the above? seems best value to me for cec 150bhp for £1500?

Ned.

seem about right but we were on about the crossflow

Hi thier are plenty of genuine 200 bhp crosflows out there almost all of them from mass engines. But trust me the price is not locost but nearer the 15k mark but if you are running with a certain car in a certain class that dose not allow you to change engine then you just have to spend the cash to do it .

Just shows how engines have moved on over the years as you can now have many engines with 200+ bhp and still use them as a daily driver . And at verry little cost relativly.

cheers matt

Agreed, there's plenty of 200bhp Xflows, the Class A 1700 engines in Classic Clubmans aren't far short of 200bhp despite having to run on carbs with limited choke sizes, but as mentioned these engines are getting on for costing 5 figure sums.

Class D Clubmans run 1300 all steel engines and they don't cost a huge amount less to build yet are still putting out less than 150bhp.

my old crossflow was a 1640 with twin 40s, the rolling road said it was 120bhp but when i put the zx9 engine in (technically 140 at the crank) it was ridiculously faster. I can only assume the rolling readout was very optimistic. At a guess, more like 100.

quote:

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Originally posted by JoelP
my old crossflow was a 1640 with twin 40s, the rolling road said it was 120bhp but when i put the zx9 engine in (technically 140 at the crank) it was ridiculously faster. I can only assume the rolling readout was very optimistic. At a guess, more like 100.

---

yup, about 100 kilos, but it was MUCH faster! I mean, hardcore faster

There is no substitute for cubic inch's-

If you have a bit of cash to spend you could get a '1.6 Zetec SE' from a ford Puma ( about £100 - £200 i think, thats from a scrappy ) and get a bellhousing to fit your gearbox from Shawspeed ( £231.48 with spigot bearing, thats to go onto a type 9 ).

There not that big at all and weigh only a little amount due to their aluminum build- in comparison to a crossflow.

Although I do believe your exhaust and inlet will switch side with that engine- but atleast you don't have to have a bulge which was your major issue ( how embarrassing ).


With throttle bodies and a light cam upgrade you will see 150-160bhp no problem- you've got to love DOHC.