daniel mason
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| posted on 9/3/13 at 07:04 PM |
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advice on a 1st sprint or hill car please
now the s3 has sold im after a beginner/novice car to do some sprints/hills but ideally i would like it road legal also. im a novice driver and have
probably only covered 500 road miles in a rear drive car. done 1000's in imprezas and evos though.
i want something reliable,easy to maintain,relatively easy to setup and relatively competative in class (beside the novice driver)
been looking at some westfields,furys etc as i cant find a striker or similar at moment but megabusas are expensive and the whole idea of selling the
s3 was to release some funds for a new house and a megabusa would cost 3/4 of the s3. and i clouldnt afford to repair if i damaged it or blew an
engine.
think around £8k for a car plus trailer package and could be BEC or CEC, should be a ball park figure.
any help on a car or a class i should go for would be great,thanks
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parkiboy
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| posted on 9/3/13 at 07:27 PM |
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How often are you planning on doing them, if pretty regular if it was me I would maybe be looking at a single seater and sacrificing the car being
road legal, would be immense fun I would have thought
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perksy
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| posted on 9/3/13 at 07:37 PM |
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Do you have a definet Class in mind ?
Are you thinking Road going ? Sports libre ? or ?
Worth a look on www.uphillracers.com as there's some good info and help available on there.
Have a good mate who is a regular Hillclimber in various championships so if you have any specific questions please ask away
although i believe there's a few Hillclimb lads who are on here ?
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Westy1994
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| posted on 9/3/13 at 07:42 PM |
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As a novice I would start with a road legal car, and fit into the production car class its less expense and will teach you to drive. I started this
way , then after a few seasons you can modify it to fit into any class you want ( within reason) I went from roadcar class to full mod prod in 6 years
with the same car.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 9/3/13 at 07:51 PM |
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the long term idea would be single seaters but theres no point at the moment as id not be able to drive it to full potential.
was thinking of a road going bike engined car or a bec race car (ex rgb) to get going with for a year or so.
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sdh2903
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| posted on 9/3/13 at 08:04 PM |
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Am I missing a thread? I thought you were doing a busa transplant?!!
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40inches
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| posted on 9/3/13 at 08:05 PM |
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Wouldn't the Cateringvan have fitted the bill? Any reason you didn't go that route?
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daniel mason
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| posted on 9/3/13 at 08:12 PM |
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done the busa install on the s3 cat but then lost out on a house cos id spent too much on it again.so sold it to re coup some cash. so want solmething
a lot cheaper.
i coudnt afford to damage the caterham in any way whatsoever and needed some money back!
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AdrianH
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| posted on 9/3/13 at 08:25 PM |
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I have looked at having a go at sprints for a while, but wanted to try it first if possible before I planted more money down the drain. As such
wished to just run in my kit, but not being fully compliant with windscreen, msa spec roll bar etc. was an issue. There is a glimmer of hope with a
new class in the Northern scene.
Class 2D road going that does not fit in a 2A, 2B or 2C. Look it up in one of the regs, I believe it may be an in.
I am planning on taking my lowly car to a scrutineer to see if its possible. if it is then use of our standard kit cars could be a first step?
Adrian
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/3/13 at 08:27 PM |
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Have a look thru results to get an idea whats competitive, its only a rule of thumb as its largely down to the driver of course.
Mistral Motorsport
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daniel mason
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| posted on 9/3/13 at 08:41 PM |
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open wheeled 7 types seem better on hills, full bodied on track and sprints
id like a stm phoenix but there arent any for sale
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Jimfin
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| posted on 9/3/13 at 09:26 PM |
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Since it's near you, have a chat with the guys at Wigton Motor club - some good stuff to get you started
http://www.wigtonmc.co.uk/gettingstarted/speed/index.php - and - http://www.wigtonmc.co.uk/events/speed.php - as they organise a whole championship
based round sprint and hillclimbs.
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RK
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 03:52 AM |
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I've only autoslalomed my 7 type, and actually don't like the distraction passengers provide. I'd rather concentrate on driving,
even on the road, so my next pure race car will be a single seater. I would think they'd be cheaper too.
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ali f27
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 09:06 AM |
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Hi daniel mark is currently building a race car with a blade engine it will be for sale and could be ready for the start of wigton mc championship
mark won the championship last year in the orange car he is on hear as purdy get in touch and come and have a look
Ali
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fishywick
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 09:10 AM |
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Hi Dan,
First of all join Wigton MC. They have the best sprint series in the area, they also run Autosolos.
I wouldn't get too tied up about what car to use, the first one I did was with an R1 Striker, great fun, BUT there are guys in that group that
have many years of rallying/motorsport experience and are very, very quick.
I did two years of sprints but on reflection I had thrown myself in at the deep end hoping that the car and I would be competitive after a couple of
track days - not so. That may not apply to you of course, I guess being much younger is a good start!
There are those who do drive cars there but the majority are trailered. I got a little fed up of the distances to travel, does it need a cat? is your
suit in date? etc. Lots of rules and regs. I now do Autosolos in a roadgoing car, nearby, little regulation, low cost and almost as much fun.
Why not have a go at those first, after you have joined Wigton MC of course?
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JimSpencer
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 10:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
i want something reliable,easy to maintain,relatively easy to setup and relatively competative in class (beside the novice driver)..
..i clouldnt afford to repair if i damaged it or blew an engine.
...think around £8k for a car plus trailer package and could be BEC or CEC, should be a ball park figure.
any help on a car or a class i should go for would be great,thanks
Hi Excuse me editing your post but think these are the pertinent bits!
What you're looking for is very difficult to do, to obtain a competitive 'Road Going Specialist Production' car for your budget is
tricky - possible yes - but tricky. It would certainly need to be a car already prepared for speed event use for that budget.
And then there will be the cost of fixing it if anything goes wrong - the more competitive it gets the more it'll cost to fix - would be a rough
rule of thumb, especially mechanically.
But, and this is the hard truth - very very few novices are competitive anyway in their first couple of seasons.
It takes time to learn the venue's and what you're doing, so forget the 'competitive' bit - and all of a sudden a totally
different proposition is available.
If funds are tight buy a small hot hatch, run it in road going and drive it to and from the gigs, it's a cheap as chips to do that way and
you'll be able to do Sprints, Hillclimbs and Autosolos all with the same car - especially in the North West as the local championships have very
good attendances in those classes.
Indeed the championships, as they are class based, have been won outright by people doing just this.
see - speedchampionship dot com for just one example of a North West based series.
If you want to go Kits - most of the tracks in our patch are short, so 'Sevens' generally go better than full bodied (though there are
exceptions) as the aero benefit of the full body is generally ofset by weight and some folks prefer the ability to more easily place the front wheels
on a Seven - though this is debatable..
As budget is tight, and you want it roadgoing I would look for a CeC striker (or similar Small & Light) bearing in mind that the class split is
1700cc, so just under that or a chunk over it!
All roadgoing cars Must have reverse fitted and working - so if you go BeC make sure it has one, but you'll normally find that class (2C or 2D)
a bit thin - 2A is normally the most popular - Kit CeC's up to 1700cc
In Roadgoing some venue's require a windscreen, some don't - all that will happen if you turn up at one that does, without one, is
you'll end up moved to 2D as mentioned by Ade above.
Rollbars / cages arn't actually required at all in Roadgoing - but you would be totally barking to run without one - and they don't
require an MSA certificate, get into Non Roadgoing though and all of that changes.
So in a perfect world, to begin with, my recommendation would be either:-
206 / Saxo - up to 1400cc, or 205 GTi 1.9 or Similar and run it pretty much 'As is'
Or
Seven, small light variety, up to 1700cc CEC, preferably with a decent rollbar already on it!
Now the above might help a bit, but nowhere near as much as turning up at an event and having a chat to a load of folk about it!
[Edited on 10/3/13 by JimSpencer]
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daniel mason
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 10:14 AM |
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thanks everyone. by competative i meant the car would be far better than me anh possibly help make up for the lack of talent on my behalf
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 12:01 PM |
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There are a lot of very powerful/very expensive under-1700cc kits now and BECs now appear to be in the over 1700cc category regardless of cc from the
regs I've seen for the season. I've never seen a set of regs for any sprints I do that require a windscreen in what we call A7/A8 (road
going Kits/Lotus etc)
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daniel mason
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 12:27 PM |
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i thought non road going bec's were split in 2 classes split at around 1125cc?
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CNHSS1
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 12:39 PM |
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to add to whats been said, id say buy a car that you have zero emotional attachment to, and treat it as a dirty racer. If you spend hours building,
polishing, tinkering, you wont be as effective and ceratinly wont want to risk throwing it at the scenery! Brand names mean jack, its time sthat are
king. A certain well known 7 type manufacturers series are often the butt of jokes when they rock up with 'all the gear, no idea' 
the advice for a road legal car initially is good, as the purchase of a decent trailer (you'll soon hate towing a caravn chassied effort up and
down the country) all adds to the costs and they need soemwhere to store them and are eminently nickable too.
as Jim says, almost any car will be more competoitive than the driver in first season, thats no disrespect, certainly was the case with me. Times will
tumble at second trip to a venue, and just getting into the groove. Hills/sprints is an odd discipline as theres a lot of hanging around then you have
to go at 110% then its all over. No warm ups, no qually etc. Its very noticeable though, how good on cold tyres and opening laps ex sprint/hills guys
are if they take up circuit racing ;-)
another quick point is that the more track biased a car becomes, the less useful it is, and potentially the fun element becomes hard work! I went from
a road legal car and it evolved to track only and ultimately sports libre and foot wide slicks. By that time teh car was at that level, it was a PITA,
soooo looow it was a pig to get on my ultra low tilt bed trailer. tyres were so soft that after every run, the drive back to the paddock picked up all
sorts or crap on the hot, sticky tyres requiring each one cleaned off before the next run. When testing, its was a bag of poo at anything other than
11/10ths, whereas a road legal car, you can hoon down the road for an afternoon blast or to test out after your latest demon modification/repair.
That said, there aint nothing like a car setup for the hills properly, full hillcimb slicks are staggering, the grip and especially braking is
breathtaking 
im gonna buy a road legal toy and get back on the hills this season whilst the slow build of my new racer continues, family and work commitments
allowing.
dont buy your ultimate weapon, as you may find that what you think you want, isnt what you really need or enjoy. Jims Striker was mega, much better
than the sum of its parts and certainly embarrassed a lot of expensive 7 types by slaughtering their times!
as for clothed or unclothed, really depends on which championship you are gonna follow. If its predominantly hills, a 7 types potentially lighter, but
they 'hit the aero wall' at places like Anglesey (depending on which circuit layouts used) , Aintree, Goodwood etc.
"Racing is life, everything else, before or after, is just waiting"---Steve McQueen
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joni
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 12:47 PM |
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westfield
hi i have a westfield megablade 929 fireblade engine just rebuilt new gearbox .full cage ,fully rose jointed,light weight body work,fire eater.new 6
point belts,radtec alloy rad all the right bits and very competive in class in hills and sprints results to prove
if you want to pm me i can send you photos of the car and price
regards jonny
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Mikef
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 12:55 PM |
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I started off with an old Westfield last season , 2l Pinto with fast road cam, and ran in the modified production road going class. It was great fun,
with really friendly and helpful people , did a few bits through the season, The biggest help I found was fitting a decent ratio diff and a LSD. Have
done a full rebuild for the coming season. Fairly cheap to run, and spares are ok. I do take it to meetings on a trailer , but it is very useful and
quite enjoyable to give it a run up the road when you have change few things.
Mikef
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sdh2903
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 01:20 PM |
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Not trying to be rude or cheeky but how have you only managed to cover 500 miles in the 4 kits that are in your profile?
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daniel mason
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 01:42 PM |
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yeah 500 ish in total
most in the zx9 stm
a few in the R1 mnr
none in the s2000 vortx
and around 100 in the caterham
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/3/13 at 01:58 PM |
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These are the latest regs I have
A Road Going Series Production Cars (S.10.10.1) & Road Going Specialist Production Cars (S.10.10.2)
- Excluding cars in Appendix 1
1. ‘Standard Cars’Up to 1600cc. – 2wd only, list 1Atyres
2. ‘Standard Cars’Over 1600cc to 2000cc. – 2wd, list 1A tyres
(See Appendix 2 for specification of ‘Standard’)
3. Up to 1400cc - 2wd only, list 1A or 1B tyres
4. Over 1400cc to 2000cc – 2wd only, list 1A or 1B tyres
5. Over 2000cc - 2wd only, list 1A or 1B tyres
6. 4wd – all engine capacities, list 1A or 1B tyres
- Road Going Kit Type and Replica Cars (Examples are included in Appendix1)
7. Up to 1700cc. (excluding all Motorcycled engine cars) list 1A or 1B tyres
8. Over 1700cc ( including all Motorcycled engine cars) list 1A or 1B tyres
B. Modified Series Production Cars (S.10.10.3) and Modified Specialist Production Cars (S.10.10.4)
9. Up to 1400cc
10. Over 1400cc to 2000cc
11. Over 2000cc
C. Sports Libre Cars (S.10.10.6)
12. Up to 1800cc and Motorcycled engined cars up to 1100cc
13. Over 1800cc and Motorcycled engined cars over 1100cc
D. Racing Cars (S.10.10.7) and Hillclimb Super Sports Cars (S.10.10.5)
14. Racing Cars up to 1100cc.
15. Racing Cars over 1100cc.
E Invited Championship Contenders
16. The WSCC Speed Series Championship Contenders
4
Appendix1
Caterham, Westfield, Sylva, Fisher and Lotus 7, Elise, Exige and 340R, Vauxhall 220, X-bow- and similar types/
derivatives of any of these cars.
Appendix2.
‘Standard Cars’are those defined by Road Going Series Production in MSA Blue Book (S11.1.1) but restricted to 2wd
cars using list 1A tyres. Cars are to be to manufacturers’original specification, with modifications limited to safety items
(see applicable sections of S10), along with replacement wheels and aftermarket exhausts (not manifold); no other
modifications (body, brakes, suspension, transmission or engine etc) will be permitted (S10.10 modified).
Appendix3.
Note: Cars using forced induction will be classified as having an engine capacity increase of 40%, those using diesel
fuel a reduction of 30% (e.g. a 2000cc turbo diesel will be considered to be the equivalent to a 1960cc normally aspirated
petrol engine), and a rotary engine an increase of 50%.
To compete in a Single Seater Racing or Sports Libre Car, manufactured after 31/12/1960 of more than 2000cc, the driver
must hold a Speed National A [OPEN] or Race National A licence unless the car is currently licensed for use on the public
highway.
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