Chris Leonard
|
| posted on 3/6/03 at 10:29 AM |
|
|
Spray painting the fibreglass bits
Hi all,
anyone know a link to a website on Spray painting. Ive got the compressor and picked up a second hand spray gun but could do with some help in setting
it up. Also what mix of thinners to actual paint I should use.
Cheers Chris
|
|
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 3/6/03 at 10:53 AM |
|
|
Have a word with mark allanson and do a few google searches on painting grp with cellulose - if thats what you are using.
It does not sound too good or easy.
The solvent in the cellulose - the thinners - affects the gelcoat and needs to have thinners to a minimum. Mark is our resident paint expert.
Seems to me that the best way forward is 2k paint that is a bit dangerous for home use.
I have got my wife to accept that im probably gonna be spending about 800 quid getting my car done professionally - in fact shes kinda insisting on it
in case I mess it up.
atb
steve
who needs to find 800 quid by year end!
|
|
|
Chris Leonard
|
| posted on 3/6/03 at 11:28 AM |
|
|
Thanks for the reply Steve,
My father in law went to a paint specialist shop yesterday and came back with load of stuff: Paint - thinners and Tetrosyl etching undercoat and the
thinners that goes with with that ativates it. I think I would have asked a few more questions if I had been in the shop!
Theres no way I'm going to get away with an £800 spray job.
I'm leaving the ally bare and just painting the schuttle mudguards and nose cone
Cheers Chris
|
|
|
Spyderman
|
| posted on 3/6/03 at 11:35 AM |
|
|
Steve, cellolose thinners will only cause problems on GRP if used in excess. If used for cleaning etc.
As discussed elsewhere, Cellulose paints have been used for many decades by Reliant cars and TVR without problems
on GRP bodied cars.
There is no reason why you can't get a good finish with cellolose, plus it has the advantage of being relatively cheap.
Once you have the skills to use it you can change the colour of your car as frequent as you like!
Chris, you will need to get the thinners and viscosity specs when you buy your paint. Try to get it all from the same place and preferably by the same
maker. You only mix to a rough ratio. The viscosity is more important. This is measured in a viscosity cup. You pour the thinned paint into the cup
and time how long it takes to empty through a hole in the bottom.
Also make sure your Spray gun is compatible with your compressor as professional equipement requires high CFM (Cubic Foot per Minute) FAD output (Free
Air Displacement) which most home compressors can't achieve.
Therefore a cheaper spray gun made for use with your style of compressor may well do better than a good quality pro gun.
Terry
[Edited on 3/6/03 by Spyderman]
Spyderman
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 3/6/03 at 12:13 PM |
|
|
When you get your paint ask for a spec sheet. It tells you in simple terms what temperature, thinners to paint ratio etc. It's handy to have
some clean empty tins to mix in. I use an old steel ruler to mix and check ratios, 4" of paint 2" of thinners or whatever. A second hand
gun is not always a good idea, you could be buying someone elses problems. I got a very good one for £35 from a local shop but I tend to use a £20
gravity feed one for most things now. Practise on the back of the garage door for a day or two till you get the hang of the wet edge and starting
without blobbing on the panel.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
Markp
|
| posted on 3/6/03 at 05:01 PM |
|
|
Ok don't quote me on this!
When I sprayed my car I filled the spray gun about 3/4 full with cellulose paint and made the rest up with antibloom thinners. Once I had done a few
layers I added more antiblooming thinners... so on and so on. until it was almost nearly all thinners.
The antiblooming thinners give the paint the nice finish, (don't ask me why).
I did put a bar coat on first so nothing reacted and then a primer before the top coat.
Hope this helps
Please note I'm not an expert it's just what I did.
Mark
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 3/6/03 at 07:52 PM |
|
|
Two Pack is the best finish you can get, but don't use it at home, you will die.
Cellulose is definately the most forgiving paint you can get, but try to get some etch primer on the grp first - apply it in dust coats (really thin)
and don't worry if the GRP colour is showing through, its only there for its cohesive qualities. the etch sticks to the GRP and the celly sticks
to the etch but GRP to celly isn't so good.
Get all the paint from one manufacturer, they will be designed to be compatable, and don't be tempted to use cheapy brands, it will cost you
more in the long run in cash and tears!
A few years ago all bodyshops used DeVilbis JGA guns, about the best, but we have all converted to HVLP equipment due to the EPA Regulations and most
shops have the old JGA's stashed in a drawer because the cost so much when new, the owners cannot bear to throw them away. Try ringing a few and
see if they will part with them for a few quid. They were £275 about 5 years ago and are ideal for DIY use. I got mine for 2 bottles of Cote De
Rhone!!
Apply the paint in several coats, dont bother about runs, you can block these out later with a flat block and 2000 W&D (carefully). If you do
block through, just matt up the surface about 10" around the blemish and carefully blow in some more paint and the restore the gloss with some
FareclaG3 compound (dont use T Cut, it contains amonia which breaks down the paint). The same procedure applies for getting rid of flies, spider foot
prints, crap falling from the ceiling (mend the loo first!!).
Try to avoid masking fittings, take them off first, celly has a nasty habit of peeling or cracking back from the mask line.
Cannot think of anything else at the moment, if I do, I will post later
Mark
|
|
|
timf
|
| posted on 4/6/03 at 01:08 PM |
|
|
warning
don't do what i did once
sprayed the car in the garage
then went outside and light a ciggy by the door.
WOOSH  paint vapors are very very flamable
|
|
|
Spyderman
|
| posted on 4/6/03 at 01:18 PM |
|
|
Mark,
Buying the spray guns like the ones you mention might not always be the bargain you think. I know I am repeating things here, but it is for the
benefit of those who do not know the differences.
If you are profficient and know your stuff then you can get away with it, as long as you have a suitable compressor. If your compressor is low powered
then all you will get is a dribble (exagerated) from the gun and make a right b***s up of the job.
Like the paints needing to be compatible, it is far better to get a suitable gun for your compressor than what might have been an excellent gun for a
pro, but is no good with a low FAD. A friend and I used to have a side line spraying cars in his dad's garage with a dinky little portable
compressor the size of a vacuum cleaner, and had no complaints or problems, but we were both proffesionals and the gun matched the compressor.
I'd agree to a degree with the painting.
Always start off with dust coats until you have a thin coating over all surfaces, then build then up (slightly wetter) otherwise you will not achieve
what you are meant to. If you spray too dry all you will be doing is powdering the surface.
The components in the etch primer actually chemically bonds with the surface, so if applied too dry will not do this.
Mark A, I realise that your interpretation of a dust coat will be different to someone who has never sprayed before, so please bare with me.
I would try to avoid runs if at all possible, but as you say, don't worry if you get a few.
This is where the practice comes in.
You need to practice spraying until you can put on a coat of paint that looks dry as you apply it. Then as you watch it, it will flow out and wet
(gloss up). The art is getting it to do this at the right speed. Too fast and it will sag or run. Too slow and it will look like orange peel.
Re the blowing in.
The tip by MarkKP about using thinners.
This works by slowing the drying time of the paint. It softens the paint surface and allows it to reflow. If you put on too much thinners you can get
horrible effects and can cause runs and such.
Not really recommended!
Masking.
As MarkA says, try to avoid.
If you have to mask then do NOT buy cheap masking tape. The sort of stuff you get from poundland and such is rubbish.
Make sure the edge of the masking tape is firm against the panel. I do this by running the back of my thumb nail down the edge.
Remove the masking as soon as you can after painting (carefully). This means whilst the paint is still wet. Do not use one lot of masking for several
different coats of paint (primer and then top coat).
The paint has a tendency to creep under the edge of the masking, especially cheap stuff. Also you will get a hard step where the paint met the masking
tape if left until dry. By removing when wet the paint will form a softer rolled edge.
I don't wish to contradict what you are saying Mark A. Just trying to make things clearer for novices.
Chris, I take it the materials have cost more than you anticipated?
"Theres no way I'm going to get away with an £800 spray job. "
I never pay full price for such materials. Always bluff my way through by pretending to be proffesional (well I was once).
And always ask for bulk discount. Get all your stuff at the same time.
Terry
[Edited on 4/6/03 by Spyderman]
Spyderman
|
|
|
Chris Leonard
|
| posted on 5/6/03 at 11:45 AM |
|
|
Well thanks to all - that is what I call a comprehensive set of answers. I'll have a go at putting it all together.
Yes the paint was more expensive than I thought it would be: the paint (1 litre) + thinners + etching paint + activating thinners was about £60.00.
I get to learn how to spray paint and thats what its all about
thanks again Chris
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 5/6/03 at 07:29 PM |
|
|
thats pretty cheap for a spray.
look on line at some of the 2k paints and the like and you will find prices iro 60+ quid a litre.
when I did my metro with celly about 8 years back, my memort dulls, but I think I paid about 250 quid for 2 tone job with about 6 - 7litres of
paint.
atb
steve
|
|
|
Spyderman
|
| posted on 6/6/03 at 11:25 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
when I did my metro with celly about 8 years back, my memort dulls, but I think I paid about 250 quid for 2 tone job with about 6 - 7litres of
paint.
atb
steve
What?
6-7 litres of paint to do a metro?
What did you use to apply it, a trowel?
3 litres would have been more than ample.
Or are you including the primer as well?
Terry
Spyderman
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 7/6/03 at 04:48 PM |
|
|
its from memory!
could have been a couple litres less, but aftet 10 years its not one of thos things that stick in your mind.
It was a turbo, twin tone jobbo, arum white with some grey colour at the bottom. Also had to do some interior as it had a new back passenger side
behind the door, and part of the boot floor.
did it at home and it was a fantastic job, apart from a big error.
as I was doing the preperation peice meal, I did the primer surfacer and undefcoating with acrylic spray paint and went over with cellulose.
I can tell from experience that cellulose does NOT bond properly with acrylic. so my fab pain job would, if knocked, flake off. Had to treat it gently
and sold it after a year.
How much paint - cellulose - do you recon it would take to paint a locost all over? it would give me an idea of how much extra id need for my morgan
replica if i do get to do it at home. prob with getting it done by a pro is that it would be a hassle - id rather paint my wings and running board
seperate from the car and that would be easier here.
atb
steve
|
|
|
Spyderman
|
| posted on 8/6/03 at 11:47 PM |
|
|
Steve, for a Locost I'd say a litre to a litre and half depending on how much is being painted. That would thin down to 2-3 litres for
spraying.
For your Morgan-a-like, I would have thought 2-3 litres would do it. 3 litres would allow for over coating and any problems.
I also had a Turbo Metro that I resprayed. Mine was black though and I didn't bother with the two tone effect.
I think the problem you had over the Acrylic was just poor adhesion. You should have scuffed the surface as acrylic has a much harder glaze than
Cellulose.
How is the body molding coming on?
Terry
Spyderman
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 10/6/03 at 02:25 PM |
|
|
thanks for the answer.
If i do it myself, I will prob buy 4 litres - cos my aim isnt likely to be a good as a pro, and also it allows for a few second attempts!
So far I have produced my boot lid, and both rear 'morgan like' wings - as seen on my site.
At the moment I have moved from GRP to a bit of this and that at the rear end. I need to fit the bumper, the light nacelles and wire it all up as well
as paint a few bits and bobs added to the chassis to support stuff like boot hinges. Have also to fit a remote boot release. All stuff thats never on
a locost and adds like heck to the build. (I know a morgan dont have a boot- this is a look alike!)
I am also doing a bit of work to the front - improving the top wishbone and geometry - have never been happy with first attempt.
Once thats done, I will be making the 'buck' for the running boards and front wings. I recon I can make it in such a way that one buck can
do both sides. This part will basically be the boards, plus the 'arched' bits over the wheels. The curved inner 'half barrel'
shape that carries the lights and grille and is inboard of the arches will be done after that, followed by the front grille / nose. I recon I will
have something dangerously close to complete bodywork by then...
atb
steve
|
|
|
Alan B
|
| posted on 10/6/03 at 02:50 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
........ I recon I will have something dangerously close to complete bodywork by then...
I though that too once...
Did you see the thread in Mid-eng about my mods Steve?
|
|
|
Findlay234
|
| posted on 10/6/03 at 03:34 PM |
|
|
Forgive my ignorance but what does a two tone look like? Is it the different colours at different angles look?
Oh and BTW, im getting my etch primer, undercoat and paints for free... i know a mate in the biz.... LOL
|
|
|
Spyderman
|
| posted on 10/6/03 at 04:07 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Findlay234
Forgive my ignorance but what does a two tone look like? Is it the different colours at different angles look?
Oh and BTW, im getting my etch primer, undercoat and paints for free... i know a mate in the biz.... LOL
Two tone is just the old seventies style! (showing my age now)
Two different colours. Top half and lower half of car in different colour paints.
In Steve my case it was upper body colour (mine black, Steves white) and lower panels below the waistline were grey.
You used to see all sorts of variations especially on Ford Cortinas and BMW 3s. Most common was Metalic blue and silver. Well it was around my
area.
Terry
Spyderman
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 10/6/03 at 06:04 PM |
|
|
Finally motivated.
All this talk about paint has got me round to repairing my nosecone at last. 1/2 ltr of cellulose racing green £7.63 mixed to match front wing, 1ltr
of fast thinners £4.61. I primed it yesterday and flatted it down this morning, nice and smooth now. Top coat tomorrow cos it rained and the car has
got to go out while I paint in the shed.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 10/6/03 at 06:37 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
........ I recon I will have something dangerously close to complete bodywork by then...
I though that too once...
Did you see the thread in Mid-eng about my mods Steve?
nope, will give that a look over. I dont check out all the sections cos id spend my whole life on here......mid engined I only check once in a
while.
will take a look and commiserate / congratulate as necessary!
atb
steve
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 10/6/03 at 06:41 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Spyderman
quote:
Originally posted by Findlay234
Forgive my ignorance but what does a two tone look like? Is it the different colours at different angles look?
Oh and BTW, im getting my etch primer, undercoat and paints for free... i know a mate in the biz.... LOL
Two tone is just the old seventies style! (showing my age now)
Two different colours. Top half and lower half of car in different colour paints.
In Steve my case it was upper body colour (mine black, Steves white) and lower panels below the waistline were grey.
You used to see all sorts of variations especially on Ford Cortinas and BMW 3s. Most common was Metalic blue and silver. Well it was around my
area.
Terry
Ford granada mk2 looked really good in the two tone blue and grey.
you can like stuff like that and not be ashamed - i know at 44 im getting to be an old git but who cares
The metro look good like that!
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 10/6/03 at 07:15 PM |
|
|
I was 51 the other day and I have to say I don't like metallics and never have. When I worked for a living a kid who was into customising stuff
had a 205gti sprayed in a flip paint. It looked greeny blue from one angle, purply red from another and poo from everywhere, but he loved it. I think
that is the new two tone same as on TVRs and other exotica. Give me a nice solid paint finish you can touch up with Dulux any day.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
Spyderman
|
| posted on 10/6/03 at 09:03 PM |
|
|
I still like two tones to a degree.
However I thought the grey lower on a black car looked a bit dull. On a white car I'd agree it looks a whole lot better.
The best two tones I think are on such vehicles as Healey 3000's and Corvette Stingray's.
Come to think of it a lot of Mini's were two tone, having a different colour roof, and they always looked good.
Peteff,
I love metalics! The right colours of course though! Golds and bright greens make me wanna puke!
There was a custom shop nearby that sold all the American fancy paints. We used to paint anything and everything to try them out. The big glitter
paint was a favourite!
I've still got the colour catalogues somewhere round here! How sad is that?
The car I'm currently building is painted in blue pearl over white. Problem is it makes the white look cream, but is great when the sunshines on
it.
Terry
[Edited on 10/6/03 by Spyderman]
Spyderman
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 11/6/03 at 02:24 PM |
|
|
Just painted it
and put it back together. Leave it to weather for a couple of weeks then I might be tempted to polish it.
 
Rescued attachment greennose2.jpg
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 11/6/03 at 02:28 PM |
|
|
This is the primed version. It was done because I hit my bike with it and split the nosecone when the clutch stuck on last year.
 
Rescued attachment greynose.JPG
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
