ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 5/1/06 at 10:20 PM |
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See my sig......
Its the original BEC forum really, was up and running pretty much from the start of the BEC "phenomenon".
Its not a web forum and is best used via e-mail (mailing list style) so it doesnt suit everyone's taste, and its not got the same depth of
knowledge that it had maybe 2-3 years ago but its still a very useful source of info.
Its quite amusing to look back in the archives and read some of the very first conversations between Barry (the chap who started it) and a couple of
the others like Ed Cane, they are both good friends of mine now so its quite amusing how little they knew at the time 
[Edited on 5/1/06 by ChrisGamlin]
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G.Man
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| posted on 5/1/06 at 10:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
No apology needed Chris. It's just one of those things that your mind is constantly wrestling with - Dry sump or no dry sump. To date, I
haven't heard of any ZX12 Engines letting go on track WITH a baffled/wet sump, although I am aware of a few that have been tracked and
seem to have done OK.
The zx12r dry sump system was designed for sidecar racing where they have had the same problems as we do (lack of tilt on the engine causing oil slop
up into the barrels and oil starvation)..
If you follow the MRO/Bemsee series you will find a few more issues from the early days of the zx12r...
Thats not to say a good baffle and cut down sump wont work, I just think that people have found a cure and stick with it..
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 7/1/06 at 08:18 PM |
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Cheers chaps for the advice after pondering on it and the uncertainty of the engine on a track looks like the best solution is as chris suggested.
Sell the blackbird engine.
look out for this in the next few months if interested in the engine it runs very well as i discovered, i took the car out today and its AWESOME its a
bit damp but wheelspin in gears 1/2/3 is great fun???.
Think it will have to be the ZX12 next so will keep my eye out for an engine as the money spent for the power gains is imppresive.
cheers hears to the next project.
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G.Man
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| posted on 7/1/06 at 10:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
Of course, it makes sense to fit a dry sump to improve your chances of protecting your engine but does it really need one?
I guess only time will tell........................
It also adds some performance due to less oil drag
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 8/1/06 at 10:51 AM |
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But surely any gain here is swiftly cancelled out by the excess weight of the dry sump kit.................................
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G.Man
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| posted on 8/1/06 at 11:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
But surely any gain here is swiftly cancelled out by the excess weight of the dry sump kit.................................
You gain about 10bhp and 5kg's in weight...
The reduced drag on the crank in terms of increased pickup is probably immeasurable but its definately there... You can also remove the balance shaft
and replace with a blanker for further increases... that removes quite a bit of weight and drag on the crank...
TBH I would not sell the blackbird motor to switch to a zx12r as the blackbird is a good motor if its dry sumped, and I wouldnt run the zx12r without
a dry sump either... It may work, but if it doesnt it will cost you more than the dry sump in the first place...
You seem to have yours sorted tho, so maybe its okay, but I wouldnt risk it personally....
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 8/1/06 at 11:37 AM |
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I do realise that if the engine does go bang, its gonna cost a lot more than a dry sump kit alone but the flip side of the coin is that we save £1,200
(approx)
To date I have heard/seen no proof to suggest the ZX12R definitely needs dry sumping.
We are prepared to take the risk and will find out for sure one way or the other.
G-man, have you had your car on a rolling road yet? It'll be interesting to see just how much horsepower you actually have, after doing all
those mods
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G.Man
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| posted on 8/1/06 at 04:54 PM |
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Havent had the chance yet, my car arrived in cyprus last week and I am off to see it through customs this week...
Once its done and I have sorted a few of the last jobs, I will see if I can find a rolling road out here....
Should be about 20bhp up on stock if the exhaust system is the right length, so we will see...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 16/1/06 at 06:58 PM |
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Well after alot of consideration i have purchased a accusump from think automotive.
they advised me to plum this in via a sandwhich plate between the oil filter.
they also said that could plumb via the oil pressure switch as jon suggested but this
can be very restictive.
any thoughts on this from the people that know.
as you all said you are looking at £1500 for a dry sump and most where belt driven which i am unhappy with ,what if the belt breaks???? dead
engine.
running the accusump with the mistral baffled sump which they advise to run with 10% extra oil to cope with the sump mods i hope will reduce the risk
of the big bang??
thanks in advance guys for your interest and comments.
Sean
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carnut
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| posted on 16/1/06 at 07:13 PM |
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The blackird scavenge pump is gear driven from the end of the crank. You replace the ignitor cover with a billet cover with the scavenge pump mounted
on it. The cam sprocket on the crank is modified to incorporate a gear to drive the pump.
With regard to the mounting of the scavenge pump, I know there are 2 oil circuits on the blackbird driven by different rotors. Have a look in the
manual to make sure that if you mount behind the oil filter it will keep the pressure at the crank. As previously said above you may have to
"T" in where the pressure switch is.
Carnut
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 16/1/06 at 10:31 PM |
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you can use a sandwich plate but i would go the route i suggested, the only thing that can be restricted is there profits for not selling you a
sandwich plate, maybe they think your gonna try and feed it thru the small hole like you find in a pressure gauge but you dont, you buy a 1/2"
hydraulic fitting, feed the accusump with a 1/2" hose and drill and tap the fitting too suit your pressure gauge sender, i can take a pic of my
adaptor if it helps cos what i wrote prob makes no sense.
Edit to add
Carnut, do you dump your oil from the cooler back too the dry sump tank or too the engine ?
And another edit too add
dont overfill by any % get the accusump up too pressure than close the valve, let the engine stand, check level and fill as normal, overfill could
give you clutch slip.
[Edited on 16/1/06 by Jon Ison]
[Edited on 16/1/06 by Jon Ison]
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 16/1/06 at 10:36 PM |
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Hi jon
Would be great if you could help with the pictures.
i have already paid for the goods so it will be coming anyway.
if you can help any futher with regards to tapping ie what tool as i have no experience in this area.
Cheers
Sean
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 16/1/06 at 10:40 PM |
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will take a pic for you tomorrow, if your in a pickle i could prob knock one up for you and send it at cost, wont be much, well change from a tenner
posted.
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carnut
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| posted on 16/1/06 at 11:39 PM |
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Hi Jon,
The oil from the oil cooler back to the engine as per standard blackbird but I do dump the oil from the PRV into the tank.
Carnut
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OX
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| posted on 16/1/06 at 11:50 PM |
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the dry sump belts are very strong and it doesnt take much to turn the pump,,i was worried about it at first and checked it all the time but after a
while i got fed up of checking it and now only check it before i go out in the car along with the sump plug.
iv found a few marks in the pump gear when little stones have gone round but thats about it
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 17/1/06 at 04:35 PM |
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here's a pic, crap quality but its getting dark already in garage, when i tried flash i just got a white screen so i had too use torch........
you should be able too make out a 90* 1/2" elbow, one half screwed into engine, the open end you see is a 1/2" feed too the accusump (so not
restrictive at 1/2" and the blank end is drilled and tapped too suit oil pressure sender.
[Edited on 17/1/06 by Jon Ison]
 
Rescued attachment accusump.JPG
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 17/1/06 at 06:55 PM |
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hi JON
Thanks for the pics that helps alot.
why is this better than the sandwich between the oil filter any idea.
if it is better i would be greatfull if could make one and i will pay for it, i will also be fitting a oil pressure guage but where do fit the oil
pressure warning light switch??.
thanks in advance
Sean
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 17/1/06 at 06:59 PM |
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I'm not sure it is better, but its definitely as good and cheaper, the oil pressure sender you see in the pic is a duel one pressure and light
the two terminals are out of shot.
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 17/1/06 at 07:12 PM |
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Hi jon
As i have already got the sandwich plate should i stay with this as they will not refund me now.
if not could u2u your tel no to discuss price to make the part in question.
2nd when y first fir the accusump how much oil do you put in the car, do add on the 4 pints extra so it fills the tank.
sorry a bit thick in this area not sure how it exacly works.
chears.
Sean
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 17/1/06 at 08:08 PM |
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If you have the plate use it, it wont be a problem as long as you have clearance for your filter on bodywork or chassis rails ect, Ive sent my
numbers.
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Smartripper
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| posted on 17/1/06 at 08:58 PM |
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Hello,
Building a ZX12R myself, but the importer here in Holland is Racing with one, and he has a chopped sump, he has the engine for 3 years now.......
He stripped it after 2 years because he was interested too see hoow it's holding, and there were no part damaged.
Smartripper
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Hellfire
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| posted on 17/1/06 at 09:10 PM |
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Smartripper, are you talking about Luke, or someone else?
Also, do you mean he has an accusump or just a chopped sump?
Phil
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