MikeFellows
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| posted on 16/12/11 at 02:29 AM |
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busa engine management options
im getting close to the point of needing a power commander for the busa, the 09 engine that I have the ecu is programmable from the factory (with a
little rewire), but as someone pointed out to me, who would be able to tune it for me.
that got me looking at power commanders and a power commander + ignition module for a 09 busa is around £450
then I got looking at standalone ecu's and found the MBE9A8, full ecu, loom and sensors is £1150 a difference of around £700
now my 09 busa loom is worth around £200 and the ecu a further £200 bringing the difference to £300
is a standalone system worth the £300 difference, in particular the MBE over the power commander?
im guessing its not possible to use the busa clocks with the MBE, so that would need to change?
can a power commander run a supercharged engine (not that ive got a super charger, but i might like one oneday).
thanks
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T66
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| posted on 16/12/11 at 06:50 AM |
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On sound advice from Nat (Ns-Dev) he talked me into ditching the PC3 setup on my Rotrex Blackbird engine in favour of a DTA S60.
With a bit of attention to the "for sale" sections I picked one up for £500 unused.
When you compare what it does compared to the PC - It does everything I will ever need, ie manage the extra bits & bobs I have. The laptop
software is user friendly, and the DTA forum is also (like here) full of people in the knowledge.
Didnt have the Blackbird clocks anyway - but bought a new unused Koso RX1 for £140, and still have the Blackbird PC3 & loom to sell.
I whinced at the cost of the DTAs every time Nat broached the subject.
[Edited on 16/12/11 by T66]
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franky
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| posted on 16/12/11 at 08:09 AM |
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Don't forget to add mapping costs not just a tweak like a PC.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 16/12/11 at 09:54 AM |
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Will you be just tweaking the fuel map* to deal with the different exhaust that you have fitted and to get a through IVA?
Or is the engine heavily modified (superchargers, turbos, and such).
If the former then I would use the ECU hacking tools.
I had a good conversation with http://www.btecracing.co.uk/ concerning my megasquirt. They were happy to do the rolling road bit and for me to do the
ECU bit. Obviously you are then responsible if the engine is damaged, but if you start slightly rich and keep a careful eye on the AFR and run stock
ignition advance then what could go wrong?
The cost of your engine is about 10x that of mine though...
Matt
*it has different maps for different cylinders, but you could scale them all by the same amount I am sure.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 16/12/11 at 10:04 AM |
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my boosted engine is megasquirted, no issues when on the RR just the revs run much higher than they usually see.
Are the outside two cylinders set as slightly colder, on the bike they would get more airflow, when under the bonnet its all the same so not a worry.
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Andy B
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| posted on 16/12/11 at 11:37 AM |
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Hi Mike
might be worth speaking to Damien at Daytuner performance, hes really switched on with the Busas and great to work with - we take all our racecars to
him for mapping simply for his "no bulls##t" approach to tuning. He has some very strong ideas about this subject and I know he really
likes the MBE set up and has a lot of experience with it. His number is 01423523323 - tell him I told you to give him a call, you will be amazed at
his level of knowledge.
Best regards
Andy
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MikeFellows
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| posted on 16/12/11 at 05:06 PM |
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thanks for the replys guys & the u2u's
to answer a few questions...
the engine is currently completely standard except for the shortened and baffled sump and an exhaust. I very much doubt the engine will stay this way
as I've never left one alone before
it seems to make sense (in my head at least) to decide now before i start butchering the loom - ive no doubt a MBE ecu is pretty pointless over a
power commander on a standard engine, but its future upgrades that im thinking about
AndyB I will give that chap a call next week - sounds like he could answer some of my questions
thanks again,
Mike
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Eatpies99
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| posted on 16/12/11 at 06:40 PM |
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Mike, im building a MNR with an 07 Busa engine, im thinking of going full MBE with it. Prob gonna be speaking to Daytuner in the new year.
Where's this washer come from????
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danny keenan
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| posted on 16/12/11 at 06:49 PM |
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mike
iv got an MBE fitted to my car its one of the best moves i made with my new car.
if you want to no anything give me a call or like others say speak to daytuner.
its well worth the extra cash.
im also interested in our old cu and wring loom.
thanks danny
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MikeFellows
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| posted on 16/12/11 at 07:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by danny keenan
mike
iv got an MBE fitted to my car its one of the best moves i made with my new car.
if you want to no anything give me a call or like others say speak to daytuner.
its well worth the extra cash.
im also interested in our old cu and wring loom.
thanks danny
sounds like a deal to be done there danny 
Ive got...
loom
ecu
clocks
2 keys + immobiliser (built into key hole thing, i dunno what its called)
I will give you a call next week as im after some bits
Mike
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danny keenan
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| posted on 16/12/11 at 09:19 PM |
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im sure we can sort a good deal out for you mike.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 16/12/11 at 09:25 PM |
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Speak to Damian mate. Top man, very friendly,very very helpful. I've spoken to him many times and I'm sure he uses mbe because of their
after sales service and backup.
I however went with dta s60 pro for my s2000 engine install as it's a truly superb unit with loads of great features and can-bus built in for
race technology dash 2 which I'm using
[Edited on 16/12/11 by daniel mason]
[Edited on 16/12/11 by daniel mason]
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Chet
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 03:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeFellows
thanks for the replys guys & the u2u's
to answer a few questions...
the engine is currently completely standard except for the shortened and baffled sump and an exhaust. I very much doubt the engine will stay this way
as I've never left one alone before
it seems to make sense (in my head at least) to decide now before i start butchering the loom - ive no doubt a MBE ecu is pretty pointless over a
power commander on a standard engine, but its future upgrades that im thinking about
AndyB I will give that chap a call next week - sounds like he could answer some of my questions
thanks again,
Mike
Mike -
FYI- I have found through experience years ago with the first USA Busa Furys that using a shortened factory sump on a Busa powered car will usually
cause severe lubrication problems.
The factory sump has a [_] shaped bottom with a V shape above that to allow the bike headers to flow under the engine. The issue is that shortening
the sump eliminates the stock [_] bottom and results in a V shaped sump bottom that doesn't retain oil well in a car environment. A good baffle
and overfilling the oil level helps but will not be enough if the car is driven hard with race spec tires. My solution was to use the Koenig billet
oil pan with swivel pickup. The Koenig pan has a full rectangular shape, [___], holds more oil and provides two additional inches of clearance. It has
proven itself over time and is now our standard setup.
Chet
PS - I have also had good results with flashing the OEM ECU.
Power commanders add an additinal point of failure and are known to fail occasionally.
[Edited on 18/12/11 by Chet]
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MikeFellows
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 01:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Chet
quote:
Originally posted by MikeFellows
thanks for the replys guys & the u2u's
to answer a few questions...
the engine is currently completely standard except for the shortened and baffled sump and an exhaust. I very much doubt the engine will stay this way
as I've never left one alone before
it seems to make sense (in my head at least) to decide now before i start butchering the loom - ive no doubt a MBE ecu is pretty pointless over a
power commander on a standard engine, but its future upgrades that im thinking about
AndyB I will give that chap a call next week - sounds like he could answer some of my questions
thanks again,
Mike
Mike -
FYI- I have found through experience years ago with the first USA Busa Furys that using a shortened factory sump on a Busa powered car will usually
cause severe lubrication problems.
The factory sump has a [_] shaped bottom with a V shape above that to allow the bike headers to flow under the engine. The issue is that shortening
the sump eliminates the stock [_] bottom and results in a V shaped sump bottom that doesn't retain oil well in a car environment. A good baffle
and overfilling the oil level helps but will not be enough if the car is driven hard with race spec tires. My solution was to use the Koenig billet
oil pan with swivel pickup. The Koenig pan has a full rectangular shape, [___], holds more oil and provides two additional inches of clearance. It has
proven itself over time and is now our standard setup.
Chet
PS - I have also had good results with flashing the OEM ECU.
Power commanders add an additinal point of failure and are known to fail occasionally.
[Edited on 18/12/11 by Chet]
Hi Chet,
when I said a shortened sump, ive done the same as you except im using a hole-shot racing one with baffle plates and swinging pickup. I will
eventually move to a dry sump system but for now i just want to get the thing on the road
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noc231073
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 04:07 PM |
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Mike
Do you have the ecu editor .... Why then are you looking at a different management system .. The ecu editor will do all a dta will do or any other
system will do for that matter. Any good tuner will map your car for you with the ecu editor, that's what I run on the busa and it works a
treat
Don't waste your money . Talk to Daytuners they should have no trouble mapping with the ecu editor
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MikeFellows
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 05:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by noc231073
Mike
Do you have the ecu editor .... Why then are you looking at a different management system .. The ecu editor will do all a dta will do or any other
system will do for that matter. Any good tuner will map your car for you with the ecu editor, that's what I run on the busa and it works a
treat
Don't waste your money . Talk to Daytuners they should have no trouble mapping with the ecu editor
that is interesting, I will call Damien at daytuner this week.
thanks
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daniel mason
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 06:05 PM |
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Does the ecu editor have launch control and can bus? And the possibility of supercharger or turbo? Is so it may be worth a look. If not it can't
do what the dta s60 pro can.
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noc231073
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 06:37 PM |
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Here's what it can do
Have a little read here
http://ecueditor.com/
Yes you can have launch control , also traction control, shift light and a lot more
And btw how much is the dta pro????
I am just guessing wiring loom and ecu probably between 600 -900 pounds
How much for the ecu editor ?? If buy an interface cable £130 software is FREE and support is free too on hayabusa forum very helpful lads
If you make your own interface it's drops to £ 10 - £20 worth of components
To me it just makes sense.
We are locost btw ...
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noc231073
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 06:51 PM |
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People keep listening to the guys selling theses ecus signing there praises
If I was selling a product I would also sing its praises .
When the mega jolt and mega squirt came out first, The guys selling £700 omex and DTA systems said they were mickey mouse systems and were
unreliable.
I think they have been proved wrong I raced a mini miglia running a mega jolt and the label snobs with their omex and fancy Mbe systems laughed under
their breaths ..
After a couple of races into the season they weren't laughing ......
Save your money and spend it on something else for the car
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daniel mason
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 06:58 PM |
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Not having a go mate. After reading it looks like a decent bit of kit. And cheaper than dta unit which I have! I still like my setup for my install as
it lowers v-tec and does launch,also can bus technology which suits me. Each to their own though.
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noc231073
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 07:32 PM |
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I know your not having a go ! Just putting my point across
You don't have to spend big money for performance
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daniel mason
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 07:37 PM |
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I wold say i've spent a lot less than some. As I've done it myself. Saved on labour costs and stripped down a side damaged Honda s2000 to
use as a donor. Definately the cheapest way to build a 7
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SJL
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 posted on 19/12/11 at 12:17 AM |
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I quite agree about ecu editor,why reinvent the wheel? An ECU map is just a map any competent mapper will be able to work with it.
On an 08 onwards engine you get the options of switchable maps as well (3 settings from memory)
I built my own interface and have removed the retard restrictions in the lower gears was dead easy.
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Jason Fletcher
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| posted on 19/12/11 at 11:06 PM |
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my 08 Busa went through SVA in 08 with std fuel pressure, a Power commander and a 100 cell cat. I can't remember the exact RR figures but it was
about 165 at the wheels so would have been the stated 200bhp engine. Went like stink and very drivable.
Jason
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MikeFellows
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| posted on 20/12/11 at 01:59 AM |
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ive done a little bit more investigations....
1. the busa ecu is without doubt tuneable by many a reputable tuner making a power commander completeley redundant - i need to find someone to make me
up the cable as $200 is just silly for £15 worth of parts.
2. the MBE setup for a standard 08 busa with loom and all bits is £1750, the stuff it can do is pretty exhaustive and the wiring in the car would
drastically be reduced, it would reduce quite a few of the things i still need to buy.
Still feel i have a dilemma though, the parts I have will be worth the most they will ever be right now, and the wiring in the car would drastically
be reduced (and the number of sensors needed). But I would of course need a new dash as well as the busa one will have to go.
anyway £1750 + new dash is a hard pill to swallow.
Mike
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