ashg
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| posted on 14/4/12 at 11:58 PM |
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Better Damper Choices Discussion?
Ok now i know the mass majority of us either use run of the mill bogo standard protec or gaz shocks. typically the decision for most comes down to
price at the end of the day. for me when i built my car i went for gaz as they were what i could afford at the time and seemed to have a good
reputation within our little kitcar bubble.
now what i am really interested in, is the people that are running something different? A. what did you pick and B. why did you pick them, C. who
helped with your decision and setup requirements.
personally i am considering upgrading my gaz dampers for something rather more exotic. things like ohlins, bilstein, nitron, black art are all
floating round in my head. Im not the best driver in the world buit i can shove a car round a track in a time that i dont need to be completely
ashamed of.
now if i wanted i could go out and spend 3-4k on a set of ohlins slap them on my roadster that only cost me 3k to build and be happy in the knowledge
that i have the best i can afford on the car.
but what i really want to establish is if i do go and spend proper money on top of the range suspension will it give me the mega improvement in
handeling/ride/control that i would expect for my money compared to my £300 set of gaz units. Basically what is the point of diminishing return in
relation to suspension on a seven type chassis.
now in reality, the car has good power, 4pot brakes all round, lsd, quick rack, super sticky tyres etc etc, the only thing i havent actually
improved since building it is the suspension. my plan is to rose joint all the wishbones and fit nicer suspension in the hope that next time all the
little gremlins can be ironed out when it is flat floored again. (last time it was done i couldn't adjust the rear toe or front caster to the
precision i required)
obviously i know the car has limitations and i dont intend on losing sight of what the car actually is, but at the same time i also think it should
reach its full potential.
so DISCUSS....
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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pgpsmith
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| posted on 15/4/12 at 05:09 AM |
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Not knowing where you are on the curve, here's my 2/100ths of a Euro:
Before I spent any money' I'd carefully state my goal. Then I'd acquire a good knowledge of spring and damper functionality.
If I was going to spend serious money on suspension, I'd spend in this order:
Learn to drive well on the track.
Hire some track time with an expert, acquiring a knowledge of what to look for in behavior and in onboard data logging.
Acquire an adequate data logging system.
Test carefully.
Tune. Repeat.
Then you'll know what you need and why. Shocks are so subtle that the right equipment is meaningless without the expertise. -Sort of like jet
fighters in the hands of less developed countries.
For one data point on quality and much information on functionality, I can recommend:
Dennis Grant, one guy who has dyno'd hundreds of shocks and has published a good shock tutorial starting (but not ending)
here
and shares his findings about the best that he's tested in his Shock Buyer's Guide
here.
Enjoy the ride,
Pete
Live and don't learn, that's us. - Calvin and Hobbes
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MK9R
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| posted on 15/4/12 at 07:58 AM |
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The most important thing if having the valved correctly, its no good spending 3k on a set of off the shelf as they will not be correct for the car. A
set of singleway adjustable protech valved correctly will be far better than the wrong set up on an expensive set. I changed from a set of wrongly
valved avo's to a proper set of single protechs and it transformed the car. The only improvement I would like is to have the 2 ways, but wouldnt
consider spending any more than the cost of the protechs as any gain would be minimal (if any). If you track daying it I really cant see the point of
spending all that money for such a marginal improvement (if any). Best bet would to get procomp to test and balance your current setup, if its wrong
then let matt spec up a set of protechs
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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phelpsa
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| posted on 15/4/12 at 10:05 AM |
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What do you feel is wrong with your dampers? At the end of the day you will be making adjustments by feel, so if you can't feel what you
don't like about the current ones then you will struggle to adjust new dampers to be any better.
Once you've pin pointed the aspect you wish to improve then you may find that a couple of hundred quid re shimming / halving your current
dampers is all that's required.
Or you could be trying to find that extra 5% peak grip that comes from lower sticktion/unsprung mass, but really with a Haynes roadster you could
make the same improvement for a 10th of the cost with some simple choice mods elsewhere.
So maybe the question is, what do you want to improve? 
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ashg
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| posted on 15/4/12 at 10:05 AM |
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sorry i forgot to mention the gaz ones have been revalved for the car. i have done a fair few days of tuition and the car is well setup. what im
looking for is the point where spending more money/time wont make any difference on a 7.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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ashg
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| posted on 15/4/12 at 10:15 AM |
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to be more specific. the main issue i seem to have is a quick transition from a long sweeping bend into tight corner. with the dampers revalved it
has improved but i still find the rear end either too soft or too hard between clicks. i can either have loads of overstear and a lively back end or
lots of underster but a stable rear, i cant seem to find a nice neutral feel. dont get me wrong the car drives bloody well but i just feel like i
should be getting more out of it.
[Edited on 15/4/2012 by ashg]
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 15/4/12 at 11:16 AM |
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It's a shame that fella Grant hasn't mentioned the Protech shocks. he also is not quite the expert that he'd want you to think of
him.
Protech WILL give you a dyno sheet for each shock, and even give you a sheet for a number of settings if requested.
Next to custom Penske shocks, I'd opt for Protechs every day, and have done with the originator of Protech for the last 25 years.
Cheers,
Nev.
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emwmarine
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| posted on 15/4/12 at 12:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ashg
to be more specific. the main issue i seem to have is a quick transition from a long sweeping bend into tight corner. with the dampers revalved it
has improved but i still find the rear end either too soft or too hard between clicks. i can either have loads of overstear and a lively back end or
lots of underster but a stable rear, i cant seem to find a nice neutral feel. dont get me wrong the car drives bloody well but i just feel like i
should be getting more out of it.
[Edited on 15/4/2012 by ashg]
If you went for Gaz mono tubes you might notice a difference for 2 reasons. Firstly, if you stick with Gaz then Warren will be able to give equivalent
valving and springs to what you currently have.
The first reason for changing is that, assuming you have outboard coil overs, you could run the mono tubes upside down reducing the unsprung weight a
la Lotus Elise.
Secondly monotubes suffer less cavitation than the standard Gaz twin tube dampers. In an elise Warren reckons his mono tubes are nearly a second a lap
quicker round brands than gas gold pros. Mind you he told me that whilst he was trying to sell me them.
Building a Dax Rush.
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