albertz
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| posted on 9/4/06 at 09:04 PM |
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4AGE Problems
I have recently fitted a new engine into my Locost and am having a few problems. Basically i have replaced the Toyota 4AGE with another version
(slightly newer, non TVIS). The car starts and runs, but ticks over at about 2500-3000 rpm, when the throttle is opened a large puff of black smoke
comes out the exhaust, but it responds well to the throttle. After a while on tick-over it eventually starts hunting between 1000-3000 rpm.
I initially thought it was an air leak, but cant find anything obvious. Judging by the black smoke and strong fumes i assume it is running mega rich.
Is this likely to be a conflict between ECUs, between old and new versions?
To elaborate, i have retained the old loom, but spliced it into the new loom at the ECU connectors, to allow the correct ECU for the engine to be used
without having to completely rehash the wiring (not my strong point!)
Any thoughts or advice greatly appreciated, as its getting closer to Locost weather, although its still snowing here today!
Cheers
Link to a similar thread i posted a few weeks ago;
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=41945
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sgraber
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| posted on 9/4/06 at 11:31 PM |
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Maybe enrichment due to the faulty coolant temp sensor?
Also plausible that the TVIS ecu will not be compatible with a non-tvis engine. Is there more difference than the TVIS activation solenoid? I'm
sure the mapping would be different. But to point you to a place that can without question give you an answer to your question: www.mr2oc.com . The
solution is there.
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Prez
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| posted on 10/4/06 at 06:37 AM |
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Just a suggestion, but: I believe that the earlier phase 1-2 engines with TVIS had the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor for fuel metering,
whereas the Phase 3 non TVIS engine has the Air Flow Meter (AFM) fuel metering system. I would guess that this means there is some fundamental
difference between the ecu configurations, and could explain why you are running rich. If you have changed the inlet system significantly you may
struggle to get it set up with the standard ecu. I'm no expert on these matters though since I plan to use an aftermarket ecu on my engine.
Hope this helps
Adam
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rusty
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| posted on 10/4/06 at 07:49 AM |
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The later non TVIS did have a differnt ECU yes but in the UK they still used MAP.
Do you have the engine check light wired up and if so is it on and if it is have you tried reading the faults codes.
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eddymcclements
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| posted on 10/4/06 at 09:46 AM |
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When I wired up my TVIS 4AGE (removing the TVIS mechanism and blanking off all unused wires) I found that there were several different colour codes in
use during the same age of engine. Even though mine was a UK car the closest match I found was a Jap-spec loom diagram off the web.
Couple of things to consider - is the cold-start enrichnment on all the time? are the temperature senders (air and water) all wired in and wired
correctly? Take the ECU cover off and check the codes next to the pins on the PCB - do they match what you've got them wired in to? Different
ages of ECU use different pin-outs and colour codes and it's worth spending some time with a multimeter checking that what you think is the
TPS/air temp/water temp wire is actually connected to the correct pin.
Good luck!
Eddy
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albertz
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| posted on 10/4/06 at 08:59 PM |
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Thanks for the comments and help, but i think i have maybe misled you all with my poor description.
To clarify (or at least try) i am using the correct ECU for the engine, all i have done is used the older version loom to save re-hashing all the
wiring. This works fine, except the ECU connectors on the old style loom dont fit the new ECU, so i have replaced them with the correct ones.
So in essence i am using the correct engine/ECU combination, only using an old loom to make the connections.
I hope that has cleared some of the confusion up.
I do have the diagnostic function, although the output bulb is not connected, i will try and get that sorted out as it would definetely be a good
starting point.
Thanks again, and any further thoughts appreciated as always.
Andrew
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ChrisJLW
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 01:39 PM |
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Got a picture of your throttle body set up? The start up revs seem about right for a 4AGE, but the hunting could be one of two things.
1) Air in the coolant
2) Jammed open choke.
To test the latter take the air filter off and look at 5 oclock on the throttle body,there should be an air bleed bypass hole. Stick your thumb over
it and see if it stops the hunting. I'm assuming Toyota used the same throttle body and automatic choke system between the phase 1/2 and 3
engines.
Otherwise I take it you used the sensors with the phase 3 not the old ones?
I've lived a life that's full.
I've traveled each and ev'ry highway.
But more, much more than this,
I did it side-ah-ways.
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albertz
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 09:24 PM |
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Thanks Chris, a few good checks there for me to look at.
Unfortunately i have hit another snag, the gearbox seems to have miraculously developed a thing where it is stuck in a high gear and will not
disengage, the gear lever moves about like normal, but the gear stays engaged, the clutch clears as normal, but the gear stays...
I think it must be a roll pin or something inside the box that has come loose ro broken somehow.
That means engine out to get the gearbox out and to be honest if i do that i may just bite the bullet and scrap the whole 4AGE thing and go to the 1.8
Zetec route. There are not many 4AGE engines lying about here these days.
Any clues on the gearbox thing would be appreciated. Cheers.
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ChrisJLW
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| posted on 19/4/06 at 11:50 AM |
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From the Mk1club site:
'I have broken a Mica Blue 1989 and have the following parts still available: Engine - £100 (will break for major parts!) ECU - £50, Passenger
door and card - £20, Rear lights - £20, Distributor - £15, Bonnet (crack in paint) - £30, Boot lid and engine covers - £15 each, Rear spoiler - £25,
Rear clear 'C' Toyota trim - £25, Brake servo - £10, Glass removable sunroof - £20, Rear screen - £10, One Headlight - £15, Lots of small
relays / interior bits / etc. I will accept offers on all of the parts and postage is EXTRA on all prices! Uplift from Kilmarnock, near Glasgow is
welcome. frooty@dsl.pipex.com if interested in anything! (250306)'
I've lived a life that's full.
I've traveled each and ev'ry highway.
But more, much more than this,
I did it side-ah-ways.
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tks
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| posted on 19/4/06 at 05:14 PM |
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if its stuck in gear
how do you then check the clutch???
Think the MCU is in limb home mode..
wich will be a basic mapping to be able to work..but not to perform. proberly just a connection error (if you switch 2 wires you have got it)
The bulb will tell you all the pain it has.
The gearbox will be a gearbox problem, sow i would stick with the engine and dump the gearbox..
just my opinion offcourse..
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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paulbeyer
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 07:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisJLW
From the Mk1club site:
Hi Chris, what is this Mk1 club you speak of? Cany you give me the web link please mate?
7 out of 10 people suffer with hemorrhoids. Does that mean the other 3 enjoy them?
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ChrisJLW
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 03:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by paulbeyer
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisJLW
From the Mk1club site:
Hi Chris, what is this Mk1 club you speak of? Cany you give me the web link please mate?
www.mr2mk1club.com
Other sources
www.imoc.co.uk
www.mr2dc.com
www.twobrutal.co.uk
Usually a 4AGE going on one of the sites. I know of a couple down South.
I've lived a life that's full.
I've traveled each and ev'ry highway.
But more, much more than this,
I did it side-ah-ways.
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