ceebmoj
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 08:05 AM |
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Making body work
Making body work
I have done a couple of searches and can find no obvious threads on this all ready do you consider it worth while making your own wings nose cone and
scuttle.
I did find an article of the scuttle saying to buy one as it is not worth the hassle but what do you think
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 08:31 AM |
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It is perfectly feasible for a builder to make his own GRP bits, with a bit of care and practice. It is also very much cheaper than the £150 - £200
(or more) that you'd have to pay for ready-made parts.
The reason I bought ready-mades were:
1. I didn't want the mess and smell of polyester resin in my house (my garage connects directly into my kitchen). The resin is VERY smelly!
2. I didn't want to spend the time building plugs, moulds, etc. before I made my first parts.
3. I knew for certain that my efforts wouldn't be as pleasing to the eye as good ready-mades.
I made my scuttle pretty much as described in The Book and didn't find it too stressful - it was just another part of the car, as far as I was
concerned.
Enjoy yourself if you do decide to make your own GRP! It's just another way of amusing yourself, after all!
rgds,
David
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200mph
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 11:24 AM |
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I started making my front wings, and whilst I believe one day
they may look pretty good, I am not gonna venture further into
the field of GRP. Will be buying some.
Like the man says, the stuff stinks!!
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 12:52 PM |
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I have to disagree with Davids cheaper to make em.
ITS NOT!!!!
I have to make 9 panels for my morgan like locost based car and i have been amazed at how much the resin costs, as well as all the rest of the crap.
Consider what you need for just rear wings.
I am assuming you will be making your own buck for each rear wing.
MDF and filler to shape buck = 40 quid.
5 kilos 'glass sheet = 12 quid.
2 litres gel coat = 13 quid.
10 - 15 litres of resin @ 14 quid per 5 litres.
2 litres pva = 6 quid
1 can wax = 10 quid
associated tools and buckets 15 quid.
Thats not much off 150 quid for just the rear wings - remember its a 3 part process - make a buck, make the female mould (uses more glass and resin
than the part!) and then the part.
Unless you are planning a production run or something really unconventional like this nutter and AlanB is, dont even think or making your own parts.
Its not cheaper and it takes a loooonnnnggggg time.
atb
steve
I forgot. The stuff shouldnt stink as you should be wearing a 25 quid charcoal face mask with a six quid pair of eye glasses in your 10 quid
disposable overalls to protect against glass irritation.
[Edited on 16/4/03 by stephen_gusterson]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 01:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
I have to disagree with Davids cheaper to make em.
ITS NOT!!!!
OK - I forgot to add in the costs for making the buck and the female mould. 
quote:
I forgot. The stuff shouldnt stink as you should be wearing a 25 quid charcoal face mask with a six quid pair of eye glasses in your 10 quid
disposable overalls to protect against glass irritation.
Trouble is, no matter what you're wearing, anyone within 100 yards can smell the resin as well!
If I used it my garage, the smell would be through the house as soon as I opened the connecting door, and my neighbours would be giving me a hard time
- and I don't want to upset them as they've put up with the noise of my saws, angle-grinder and hammers for ages without complaint!
DJ
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 01:43 PM |
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I dont actually find the smell that much of a problem. Gel coat really smells like car body filler.
The issue is that the styrene vapour given off can cause your lugs to give off fluid and you can die of a pnumonia like drowning in severe cases.
Its not that its stinky - its also hazardous.
One mai reason I built a 8 x 8 shed on my garage was to enable the fibreglass to be made as well as more space for other things. So add 350 quid to
the fibreglass costs for the shed and base too!
atb
steve
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 01:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
The issue is that the styrene vapour given off can cause your lugs to give off fluid
Wet lugs can be so embarrassing as well!
DJ
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Alan B
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 01:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
.........Unless you are planning a production run or something really unconventional like this nutter and AlanB is,..........
Oi...you implying I'm a nutter too?
If so, of course, you are right....
Doing something different does have it's price......in cash and time...but, you have NO alternative...
If you can buy the mouldings you need...then do so...IMO
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 03:04 PM |
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Ok so next question has got to be does any body have the necessary moulds to make my self the parts for a book chasy or if any one else is making
there self some bits at the moment would that be interested in making doubles and splitting the cost
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 03:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
.........Unless you are planning a production run or something really unconventional like this nutter and AlanB is,..........
Oi...you implying I'm a nutter too?
If so, of course, you are right....
Doing something different does have it's price......in cash and time...but, you have NO alternative...
If you can buy the mouldings you need...then do so...IMO
David
I really need to check my typos or one day im gonna post summat really embarrasing.
Alan...
I wrote that carefully to not imply that you are a nutter as you seem to be a big bloke, but hey, your miles away in Florida, so perhaps I dont need
to be that careful
Making my own stuff has been kinda pleasing, but to quote my wife
"how are you going to change things so you can make the car faster to build".
Its 3 years next month, and I recon its another year to finish. Making the glass bits is interesting, but a bit time consuming. I just cant imagine
the time and effort for your build and all the glass parts. At least you have the prospect of a commercial application. Im gonna have lots of molds
that will make one set of parts ever. Unless of course the car gets in some way trashed, so the moulds for the parts will live down the side of my
shed for a few years I recon.
atb
Steve
[Edited on 16/4/03 by stephen_gusterson]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 03:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ceebmoj
Ok so next question has got to be does any body have the necessary moulds to make my self the parts for a book chasy or if any one else is making
there self some bits at the moment would that be interested in making doubles and splitting the cost
To be perfectly honest, you'd be better off buying the plastic bits... I know I said it would be cheaper (sorry, Steve) but you're talking
about a lot of extra work on top of what's needed to make the chassis, etc.
Go to a couple of shows - Stoneleigh and Newark are coming up in the next couple of months - and have a good look at what's on offer. Then
decide whether you could match the quality, and whether you can spare the time it would take.
In particular, look at MK, Stuart Turner, Triton Sportscars (if they're there), and all the rest. Most produce work that you couldn't
reproduce without much practice, trashed failures, reworks and spray jobs ('cos your gel coat didn't come out looking nice).
If you're not in a hurry, watch the "For Sale" section on this site for 2nd-hand bargains, and/or look out for special offers from
suppliers.
Believe me, unless you're planning something radically different (cue AlanB and Steve) then DIY fibreglass is a messy, smelly, potentially
dangerous time-waster.
David
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 03:51 PM |
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Stephen gusterson can I borrow your moulds to make my own panels or would you consider making another set up for me for a price. This question go out
to any one who has moulds or is presently making those parts right now.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 10:39 PM |
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it would not be of much use to you as the car im building isnt a locost!
its heavily adapted from the basic design and really wouldnt suit what you are building. (if its a std locost).
Also, im at an early stage in my grp build and few moulds exist - this is something thats gonna take 3 - 4 months to complete I recon.
In the scheme of things a set of fibreglass isnt all that costly.........shocks will set you back 300 quid on average alone!
David is right about the possible low quality - I havnt got too bad a finish, but if it was gel coat only with self coloured finish it wouldnt be good
enougth.
Getting the pva to stick, preventing surface marks, and a high gloss finish would take practice. Im gonna use a sander, primer surfacer undercoat and
paint.
Thinking about it, buying a set of self coloured grp is gonna save you a fortune in paint alone........
atb
steve
[Edited on 16/4/03 by stephen_gusterson]
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 17/4/03 at 10:59 AM |
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my limited experience and on line reading has shown that wax for a one off is a bit of a pita.
Applying wax seems to make the PVA repel like crazy - just like water on a car in the rain. Thi is even if you polish the heck out of it and remove
all traces - the pva tends to creep.
I have read some research on line taken from professional molders in the USA.
It says that using wax ALONE on a green mould will cause sticking on 16% of new moulds.
Using PVA NEVER caused sticking.
Seems to me that using pva alone - as I Have read others have done successfully intheir builds - might be a best route for an amateur.
For a professional, a well season mould seems to need just wax. thats great. But im never gonna have well seasoned moulds.
So far, in my experience of making a buck, making a mould and making a part, by far the hardest part is getting the frigging PVA to stick withou
causing unsightly runs in the gel coat, or shrinking away is a major pain.
Once one of my moulds has produced my final part, i am going to experiment by taking all the wax off, using two coats f pva, and seeing if the part
sticks. If it does not, im not gonna use wax any more. Just coats of non streaky pva.
atb
steve
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 19/4/03 at 10:41 PM |
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Hi syd.
I am also using exactly the same number 8 wax.
I have left the work several hours between coats and have polished it well between coats.
The pva still runs off like a barsteward tho.
I can understand that with seasoned molds it removes the need for pva and i have found that imperfect pva coating does leave annoying marks in the
gel.
However, PVA does seem to come off quite easily from my first two parts after parting - its a bit like cling film after seperation. Its not sticking
to the 'gel' side,. which obviously isnt waxed.
So, for me, i think its logical to go the lower risk one off rout of pva only. Wax, if the mould was seasoned, would give a smoot part, but these are
virgin moulds.
I recon I can get a better result using just pva - leaving out the wax will make it go on more even.
atb
steve
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