blueshift
|
| posted on 7/7/03 at 05:12 PM |
|
|
Bracket bending
I've been having a ponder about making the suspension brackets. A friend of mine can laser cut the flat steel but not do the bending. He
didn't think much of trying to bend them with a vice and hammer, says he's tried that with poor results.
Just wondering what you chaps had to say on the subject. I have been dreaming up things like hinged benders and devices to turn my trolley jack into a
bracket bender.. but they're rather silly.
|
|
|
|
|
ProjectLMP
|
| posted on 7/7/03 at 05:31 PM |
|
|
Can't you just cut them from suitably sized thick walled square or rectangular tubing. You should be able to arrange it so you cut out the wall
that has the seam weld in it. Will be a lot stronger than cold bending.
Home of the Astronomicalcost Mid engined LMP project
|
|
|
Jon Ison
|
| posted on 7/7/03 at 06:32 PM |
|
|
yup, thats the way i did it,
|
|
|
Stu16v
|
| posted on 7/7/03 at 10:05 PM |
|
|
For all the cutting drilling and pissing about involved I just bought some ready made. The ones I did make (long story, changed my mind half way
thru...) I made in two halfs, so only one right angle needed to be bent and easier to drill accurately with home tools. Tack weld the two halfs
together using a bolt etc as a jig to keep holes aligned/correctly spaced, and fully weld when correct positioned/tacked on chassis.
HTH Stu.
Dont just build it.....make it!
|
|
|
blueshift
|
| posted on 7/7/03 at 11:29 PM |
|
|
Hmm, thanks. will prob go with the cutting from box idea if I can find stuff the right size.
|
|
|
craig1410
|
| posted on 7/7/03 at 11:32 PM |
|
|
Hi,
I didn't find it to be a problem using the vice arrangement. I started to use a 2" x 2" ERW tube but I found it quicker and easier
to do the following:
1. Cut lengths of 40mm x 3mm flat bar as required to form necessary bracket size. I needed 50mm INSIDE spacing because I wanted to use some penny
washers to adjust castor later. I used 2 1.4mm penny washers each side to give me a total of 5.6mm movement per wishbone.
2. Mark out a centreline and perpendicular marks for the holes and bend points. Try bending a bit of bar to find out where you actually need to mark
it to get the correct results. You can then just clamp it in the vice at the mark and all should be well.
3. Drill out one of the holes to full size (10mm in my case) and then drill the other to 8mm (or whatever). I actually stacked all my brackets and
drilled through them all so that they were all identical.
4. Bend brackets in the vice. This takes a little practise but most important thing is to make sure that the piece is perfectly perpendicular to the
vice jaws before bending to avoid twist. This is easy with a set square.
5. Check alignment. I used a jig made from some of my 2" ERW section with holes drilled very accurately in the position where the holes should
fall when a bracket is placed over the section. Use a set square to make sure your bends are at 90 degrees too.
6. Bore thorough the 10mm hole to ream out the 8mm hole to full size. Again I used the jig to guide the drill with some washers in between the sides
of the section to act as a crush tube and ensure that the drill bores straight without being pulled off by the 8mm hole accuracy.
Easier done than said but hopefully you get the idea...
ATB,
Craig.
Oh, do the chamfered corners before bending is my advice because it's easier to get on your bench grinder or sander before bending.
|
|
|
Rorty
|
| posted on 8/7/03 at 02:11 AM |
|
|
yeah, what craig1410 said! At least that's more or less the way I describe hand making them on my site.
Blueshift, does your mate not have a 5 axis laser? If he does, he can cut the brackets from RHS anyway. It's really neat, and v accurate.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
|
|
|
James
|
| posted on 8/7/03 at 08:33 AM |
|
|
Blueshift,
Get your mate to cut them out of flat plate with laser. Use the laser to cut through most of the metal at the 'bend' points leaving just a
couple of 'tabs'. And also use the laser to cut out the bolt holes.
It's then easy to bend at this point accurately (even by hand!) check it's square and then run a weld along the outside of the join.
Merlin cut mine for me with his laser and I then bent and welded them. I used TIG to weld them (for neatness) but you could more quickly MIG it as
long as you were careful not to get excess weld on the 'base' of the bracket.
HTH,
James
|
|
|
blueshift
|
| posted on 8/7/03 at 11:40 AM |
|
|
Ah, cunning plan james. so long as the corners will be strong enough after welding.. I don't have TIG stuff, much as I'd like to play with
it.
My mate only has a 3-axis, so the lasered tube idea doesn't work sadly.
|
|
|
James
|
| posted on 8/7/03 at 02:41 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by blueshift
Ah, cunning plan james. so long as the corners will be strong enough after welding.. I don't have TIG stuff, much as I'd like to play with
it.
My mate only has a 3-axis, so the lasered tube idea doesn't work sadly.
I can't take credit- Merlin's idea!
You have a point about the weld- but then it's only weld holding the bracket on the chassis! 
I'm pretty sure you could weld on the inside edge aswell but check you clearance with the outer bush tube first.
HTH,
James
|
|
|
westdown
|
 posted on 8/7/03 at 10:05 PM |
|
|
Cut and drill then find some one with a fly press. With a back stop set in the correct place they will fold in the same place every time.
Dave
|
|
|
kingr
|
| posted on 9/7/03 at 12:13 AM |
|
|
Just to follow on from what Rorty said, I've seen videos of specialist tube cutting lasers, they can move the tube in and out, and spin it, I
saw one cutting a scallop so quick you could barely work out what it was. They even work on square tube by moving the laser up and down to follow the
tube!
Kingr
|
|
|
Simon
|
| posted on 9/7/03 at 04:07 PM |
|
|
blueshift,
Buy 'em!
Save yourself of stack of time and hassle - not expensive.
Or follow advice above!
ATB
Simon
|
|
|
blueshift
|
| posted on 9/7/03 at 06:02 PM |
|
|
Might buy them. feels light cheating though, you know?
|
|
|
craig1410
|
| posted on 9/7/03 at 07:55 PM |
|
|
Hi,
I bought 8 from GTS Racing at the same time as my shock/spring kits but the ones I did for the wishbones were a non-standard size so I made them
myself. It took me about 3 hours to make 8 including all marking out, drilling and bending. Yes you can buy them for little money but I think it is a
cop out myself having tried both approaches.
Come on guys, if you can't make a few U brackets then stick to airfix kits!
Cheers,
Craig.
|
|
|
kingr
|
| posted on 9/7/03 at 11:21 PM |
|
|
My comment would be, if you've got a tool that will cut fairly accurately through 50mm x 50mm x 3mm tube, or whatever you're using, and at
a reasonable speed (and I don't mean a 4 1/2" grinder), then make your own. If not, let someone else do the hard work and buy them in.
I was planning on buying them in, but then thought, if someone offered to pay me the price that it would cost to buy them to make them for them, would
I? To which the answer was probably yes. There were a few other factors, but I don't see any need in going into them here.
Kingr
|
|
|
Simon
|
| posted on 10/7/03 at 08:32 AM |
|
|
Craig,
No good at building airfix kits - that's why I'm building a car:-)
AAMOI I've 26 bkts on my car - nearly 10 hours using your time scale:-(
ATB
Simon
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 10/7/03 at 09:07 AM |
|
|
problem with making brackets is that if you only have home facilities, its not easy to get nice crisp precise bends with just a bench vice and a big
hammer - when you are working in 3mm.
It wasnt easy for me anyway.
atb
steve
|
|
|
craig1410
|
| posted on 10/7/03 at 11:49 AM |
|
|
Stephen,
I can only compare the ones I made with the ones I bought from GTS Racing. Mine were every bit as good (IMHO of course) and in fact were slightly more
accurate in some respects and had 90degree bends which the GTS ones had not (easily remedied so not a complaint btw)
If you bend them progressively and hit the correct part of the bend then you can get good results. It does take a couple of failed attempts to hone
the skills but it can be done.
Simon,
Only kidding matey!
Cheers,
Craig.
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 10/7/03 at 01:14 PM |
|
|
I think the biggest issue I had was doing the second bend - the first fouled the vice.
Used cut out square section in the end.
atb
steve
|
|
|
craig1410
|
| posted on 10/7/03 at 08:09 PM |
|
|
Yes I thought that I would have had the same problem but because my vice is pretty small (1 Ton type) and because my brackets were 50mm inside spacing
between the sides of the "U" I had enough space to bend both sides easily. You can always use a "mini-anvil" made from a solid
piece of steel to bend the bracket over if necessary.
I must be honest, if I could have bought brackets the right size and perhaps more importantly if I could have had SAME day delivery then I'd
have bought them. However, I needed bigger brackets and I am an impatient kind of person so I just made them. I am pleased that I did but glad I
don't have to make any more...
Cheers,
Craig.
|
|
|
Viper
|
| posted on 10/7/03 at 10:01 PM |
|
|
Well if anybody wants brackets but don't want to make them, i cam make them for you, to your own dimensions, £2.00 each.
|
|
|
fastavatar.jpg){kind=avatar}
