Hey all,

Well after a long break getting my life a little more stable again, the time has finally arrived to start building up the kit!

I've sourced the wheels, engine, kit with fuel tank, pedal box and all the donor parts. So the remaining large purchases are loom, seats, lights, propshaft, cradle and digidash.

I have read, read, modified and then re-read the build manual a few times now, but have still heard that there are a few things that can be done in a different order to make the build a little more straight forward? Any tips from you MNR builders on here? Richie, Smart51, Rog and Mark (GMan) any input.

I have already read the thread on sundries that'll help, like bolts and bits and have sourced most of these. Just curious as to any others?

Any tips would be much appreciated!

Chris.

Got my engine from Malc yesterday too... 8D

Go make a cup of tea first!

The main thing I would say is to have a good picture in your mind of how you wish the car to look when it's finished. Try not to cut corners to save time or money as inevitably it will not then look as you wished it to at the start. Spend time and money on parts that are visable and keep it neat.

Steve

Cup of tea and some planning can work wonders!

Couple of things I found....

Keep as positive as you can, try not to get disheartend if you get things wrong slightly, I used to think all the cars I looked at were perfect but when you start to look in detail they all have minor mistakes which are usually easily rectified or disguised.

If you think a job will take you 30 mins then double it, it always takes longer than you think and if it doesn't then it's a bonus and you can start something else.

Look at the whole build as a learning experience and NEVER be afraid to ask others question no matter how silly you think it might be, chances are it's not silly and someone has come across the same issue before.

When it comes to wiring don't panic! at first it may seem complicated but once you get going and in reality it isn't and it's pretty logical once you get into it.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll be fine.

Rich.

Some tips to look out for:
Depending on Chassis number (mine is #28), make sure your fuel tank is close to the chassis at the front corners (5mm but not touching!!), otherwise when you fit the body, the rear of the tank touches the body. I had to make new straps with the body in place (didn't want to risk removing it), it was a pig of a job

Check your prop shaft goes down the tunnel, I had to dismantle the rear UJ and reassemble it in the tunnel

Get a Dremmel type drill (mine was a bargain £15 from Aldi) its a must when cutting the body.

Overall I have had no major problems, so far I have all the rear suspension fitted and the main body cut, fuel tank and all pipes and loom fitted, just about to start on the front suspension.

Good luck and enjoy

Put the prop shaft in before the diff.

Do all of the pedal box and footwell aly panels before fitting the body work.

Do buy a dremmel. It is an absolute must. I spent perhaps 1/2 of my build filing by hand. Buy a dremmel.

Don't rush.

I know its a novel idea but I would follow the build CD ? .

loom and lines first

All the Best

Agriv8

[Edited on 14/2/06 by Agriv8]

quote:

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Originally posted by shortie
Cup of tea and some planning can work wonders!

Couple of things I found....

Keep as positive as you can, try not to get disheartend if you get things wrong slightly, I used to think all the cars I looked at were perfect but when you start to look in detail they all have minor mistakes which are usually easily rectified or disguised.

If you think a job will take you 30 mins then double it, it always takes longer than you think and if it doesn't then it's a bonus and you can start something else.

Look at the whole build as a learning experience and NEVER be afraid to ask others question no matter how silly you think it might be, chances are it's not silly and someone has come across the same issue before.

When it comes to wiring don't panic! at first it may seem complicated but once you get going and in reality it isn't and it's pretty logical once you get into it.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll be fine.

Rich.

---

Built an MK but not a lot different. Get the chassis up in the air on some strong stands. Far easier to run brake lines when you can crawl all around the car. get the engine and fuel lines in before the electrics so the loom can be measured for correct lengths and easier to fix off the ground. I fitted the wishbones and hubs early as it looks like a car sooner...only to end up removing them to fit other stuff! Don't forget though you will need to get the car off the stands at some point! It might be light but 450KG 3ft off the ground still demands some careful lifting to get it down.

Lastly "good luck".

Hiya Chris,

Ive updated my build diary and Ill add todays uddate tonight but I went:
Brake pipes, fuel pipe(carfeul as it kinks easily), loom, pedals/cylinders, tank then diff. Ive just read what Amalyos said about the tank/bodywork and mines pretty far forward, hopefully therell be enough clearance. I made an ar5e of one of my straps so had to remake one, looks fine now but I found it a bit fiddly.

Ive always been of the mind set, take how long you think a job will take and double it, you wont be far wrong. Its taken me 3 days up to this point and Im ready for the bodywork. Ive had a few setbacks like a rivnut not setting properly into the tank meaning I had to take the sender back out and re drill it but nothing major.
As for extra sundires, make sure you have loads of (particularly smaller 5mm ish) P Clips for the brake lines. I didnt have enough as Ive used them fairly regularly. Ive run out and had to swap to white - yuck. No biggy though, theyre easily swapped over when I get some more black and any I cant swap cant be seen anyway! Nuts and bolts wise, have a look at whats needed in the build manual for things like handbrake (M8 x 30/washers/nuts), diff (M12 x 50/washers to space/M14 nuts to space), column and rack (M10 I think) etc and source these in advance.

As for the diff vs propshaft debate. MNR now supply the propshaft after the engine is fitted as they have them made to your mesurements. Im not sure if there is much of a change with the new chassis but either, theres more room to get it in (doubtful) or they meant it to be split and re assembled in the tunnel. I asked Chris whether there was any change to the order of things if you dont have the prop til later and he reckoned not. I read Amalyos' worries when he had to do this but hopefully it wont be too scary. I wont have my engine for another 3 months or so (bl00dy work) so that job is down on the list.

Thats just about all the help I can offer for now, will be nice to keep this thread going cos theres loads of things that Im sure we'll all come across during the build.


Which build CD do you have? The new website says its a 90 page one but mine is 59, there are some photos missing from a couple of parts like steering column/rack, are everyone elses the same or is Word bu66ering about?
Good luck and kind rgds

Rich

edit1: just to say the pivot bar into the brass top hats on the pedals was very tight. I gave it a bit of work so that it was a tight but not impossible fit and used M16 washers to space the pedals from the pedal box. Youll see what I mean wen you look at it, as per the build maual/RogBs site but nobody had M16 washers locally, I had to travel for them.

edit2: dont be a divvy like me and put the passenger side footwell panel on the passenger compartment side rather than the engine compartment side - again no great issue but I kicked myself when I realised, at least I fitted it first and realised when i did the drivers side so I wasnt that thick


Off to fit me interior panels..................


[Edited on 14/2/06 by RichieC]

That is absolutely fantastic people! Thank you!

I have provisional arrangements to bring the kit down this weekend and then to begin building on Monday.

The other half is on a job in Gloucester for the next few weeks so I'll be able to get a few hours in the garage every night before she makes it back to give me gentle persuasive suggestions relating to dirty dishes and grease marks on the walls...

Great advice so far too!

Very interesting about the tank Amalyos, never heard about that one...

As for the propshaft, I have a question about Torque Resilient Tubed props. Do they fit in the tunnel? Plus are they harder to dismantle? I heard from a few peeps that it's quite a tight fit...

When people say that the prop has to be split to fit. Does this mean that the diff and engine can be fitted and then the prop afterwards?

Again thanks for taking the time to post here all. (Rich, that is one long reply!) Plus I reckon it's a good idea to keep it running too. It'd be a great place to centralise little hints and tips on VortX building.

Cheers again,

Chris.

Tips I'm able to give so far:

Drill both ally bulkhead panels (the ones actually down the transmission tunnel) before riveting otherwise you won't get a drill in (riveter's hard enough). Some of my rivets are not entirely flush, but it's back to the old addage, no-ones car's perfect.

The brass bushes for the brake pedals are damn tight if you don't remove the powder coating on the inside of the pedal tubes. This is a 2 minute job and will save you 2 1/2 hours of swearing whilst rying to get the feckin' pedals out again.

When fitting the engine (R1) the prop drive looks way off to the offside. Marc assures me this is okay, so "don't worry, just keep bolting it together and it will all make sense" to quote a rather short shaggy haired bloke from Harrogate way on!

Don't forget to put sealant between all your ally panels BEFORE riveting them. You don't need to drill them off again (ARSE!)

I neeeded to make a couple of shims to go between the pedal box and the ally bulkhead panel, allow for this as it is time consuming.

If you can stretch to it get a compressor, an air "dremel", an air drill, a hydraulic riviter (the best fookin' tool ever!!!!) and an air powered metal trimmer. It's a piece of p*ss to change the tools and sounds damn good too!

Buy your mates loads of cans of stella and they will help you!

DO NOT rush. As mentioned before ask any question no matter how stupid (look at some of the mistakes I have made and I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent, mechanically competant and big headed - obviously).

Get an account with screw-fix direct (ont' interweb), next day free delivery and all the nuts and bolts you'll ever need.

Tap Marc for knowledge if you are really stuck, he seems to know what he's talking about.

Get on this forum on a daily basis, you'll find most of your questions have already been asked and answered.

Just a quickie from me, is it possible to fit the interior panels after the bodywork?

The build manual lists it after the bodywork, but I note others have done them first.

Is it much harder if you do it after?

Thanks

Rich

quote:

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Originally posted by RichieC
Just a quickie from me, is it possible to fit the interior panels after the bodywork?

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Yeh, I suspected theyd be OK but didnt want to have to remove the bodywork again.

Thanks mate

Richie

Just remembered another tip. When laying the brake and fuel lines, you can either go over the reverse box mounting plate or under it. It seemed obvious to me to go under it to keep the runs smooth. However, it soon became apparent that my P clips werent a maximum of 6" apart in that area - oops. It was very nearly a pull them out and start again, but the reverse box mount is 5" so providing you can get a rivet/p clip into the 1/2" at either side, youre OK. I did and mine are within the 6" but it may be easier to route them over the top to save the heart stopper I gave myself

Rgds

Richie

Just wondering if anyone has a 90 page build manual they could post or maybe ftp to me? It would be good to host a full build manual on my site for others to use... www.mnrvortxr1.co.uk

And yeah Richie, it's not Word. I have a 60 page manual too.

Any help'd be appreciated muchly,

Chris.

Yeah, put the brake pipes over the reverse mounting plate. It is almost impossible to do it under. I managed but not very well.

I think that MNR run all the pipes and wiring over the top of the tunnel tubes rather than along the floor like the online build manaual said.

This could turn into a very good discussion, with so many of us at around the same stage.
Lets keep this for build information and try not to divert onto other issues, like many other threads.

I'll have a few hours in the garage tonight, starting on the front suspension, so watch this space

Steve

Hi all,

Silly question of the day, how do you tell which side front upper bone is which?

Edit: Fronts are boss up and biased to the rear
Rears are boss biased to the front

Richie

[Edited on 16/2/06 by RichieC]

Didn't get very far tonight, some of the threads in the front suspension are not cut fully (looks like only the first cut tap has been used).
I can get a RH 1/2" UNF tap, but a LH one seems hard to find, anyone got any ideas, other than sending my parts back up to MNR.

I've got the Inboard suspension, and in some pics I took at MNR it looks like the rocker needle bearings run on the bolt, I don't like that idea, so I plan to get a threaded shaft made. Has anyone else fitted the Inboard Suspension yet?

Steve.

Nah afraid not mate, I went for the cheap skate outboard Which threads are th problem?

Rich

The wishbone threads are fine, its the compression shaft up to the inboard rocker that has the thread problem
I'll have to call a few friends tomorrow to see if anyone has one.

Steve.

Todays silly question:

Spring Weights, 8.35 and 8.25, is it 8.35 to the front?

Thanks

Rich

Main tip I would give every MNR builder, is to remove the powder coat on ANY mating surface, and run taps down every threaded powder coated component...

If not you will find the parts work loose all the time, or, they will be an utter bitch to assemble....

Other than that, its bloody useful having Marc on hand... lol

Yeah, having Marc Nordon on hand would certainly help building a Marc Nordon Racecar...

Its gone very quiet, I assume everyones busy building

Just fitted the body, it actually looks like a car now
Rescued attachment PICT1488.JPG

looking good.

extremely useful thread this

Looks great amalyos!

At what stage did you put the bodywork on? After loom, lines and pedal box?

Also did you find it hard to line up the nose, bonnet and scuttle?

Did you sikaflex the body down to the chassis?

Ta mate,

Chris.

P.S. The chassis and tub are finally making their way down to Bristol on Saturday! Woohoo! Finally finished the garage last night and ready to start abuildin'!

Looks like in just about exactly the same state as mine Amalyos.

Re bodywork Chris, you need to fit it after loom, lines but before you fit any suspension.

It was around 3 days work before I was ready for bodywork, including things like pedal box, scuttle cover, interior panels handbrake etc.
Lining it all up is easy enough. Obviously you need to copy the shape of the nose cone onto the front of the side panels then its a case of lying the bonnet and scuttle on (lined up with the kink in the side panels) to check the gaps.
Sounds like theres a few of us at the same stage at the mo, youre all going to pull away now though as Im out of the country for 2 months as of next weekend

Rgds

Richie
Edited to add, I am not going to Sikaflex the bodywork on, nor does Marc reccomend it. A few rivets are more than adequate and allows for easy removal if you so desire, Sikaflex all but precludes this as its a horror to get off.


[Edited on 22/2/06 by RichieC]

That's a coincidence Richie! I was just reading your diary about the bodywork fitment.

Sad to hear about you leaving the country for a few months. But atleast you'll return with a poo load of enthusiasm to finish the build!

Interesting about the Sikaflexing. Always curious as to what happened if you wanted to remove it!

Ta, Chris.

P.S. Maybe I'll have caught up with you by the time you get back!

Hope it all makes sense

If you feel you need some extra security for the bodywork, use silicone. It comes off dead easy but will achieve a similar effect to Sikaflex. I treat S/flex as a permanent adhesive.

Not had any time in the garage last 3 days, but Im about a days work away from my rolling, steerable, brakable chassis with bodywork aim within the 2 weeks I set out.
Having a week off work and all of the bits ready to go on was my greatest help.
Rich

[Edited on 22/2/06 by RichieC]

I wondered how you had progressed so quickly. I'm a bit stuck at the moment, as I have some 1/2" bolts missing
I need to give Marc and Chris a call tomorrow.

Steve.

ive not bonded OR rivetted my body on yet.

the side/back panels are extremely snug around the back and dont move a bit.
the side parts are loose, but once you have the scuttle+nose+headlight bar rivnutted though it it , the top part is rigid. i think it'll only need a rivet through the bottom front to stop that part moving about.

I have just placed 2 rivets in the bottom of the tub onto the bottom rail to stop the sides flapping. probably add 2 more next time the car is elivated.

Probably need a couple at the rear as mine moves a little.

Personally I would use as few as you can get away with the nature of the one peice tub is to hold itself in place rather than the three peice design.

A little felx may be a good thing as to will let the chassis bodywork move while it expands / contracts as every material does.

Agriv8

Another good tip from you lot! Thanks.

Just curious as to whether anyone has had problems with flapping body panels or resonance when driving?

Resonance, in the sense that with no silicone or sikaflex or a rivet every 6 inches, wouldn't the panel resonate against the chassis at certain speeds or revs?

Or is this negligible due to other louder noises like wind around your helmet, or sock filters on air intakes ( I won't start that debate up again! ), or 'not for road use' cans, or screaming passengers...

Chris.

I've been having problems with my clutch pedal sticking sometimes. It would either stick open or closed but a good tap with the left foot would free it. Every time I looked, there was nothing wrong with it. I found it today. The bottom of the clutch pedal comes within 2 or 3 millimetres of the floor. There was a small stone that would sometimes catch between the floor and the pedal.

For those building a BEC, you want the clutch cable to be as close to the pivot as possible to get a reasonable pedal movement over the biting range. cut a bit off the bottom of the pedal. You don't need it.

Just another one on the pedal box front. The spherical bearing that the balance bar pivots on must be able to slide from left to right within the mounting tube in the brake pedal. This usually requires a little filing of the powdercoating. This allows the pivot of the balance bar to change and hence allow the front to rear bias to alter also.

Marc passed this one on and was also mentioned on another thread recently.

Another couple of fairly obvious ones are to notch the interior panels before fitting the scuttle bulkhead and the main bodywork to aid with access.

And also to fit the brake lines and fuel lines with enough space to fit the tunnel alloy panels in comfortably. (i.e. Don't mount the P-clips right next to the chassis member running along the floor. Leave a few mil in which to fit the panels.)

Some other tips that I've come across have been to tap the chassis for mounting points on the three and four way brake line adapters. The thread is three to four deep so will easily take a bolt to a fair torque. It also saves on those rivnuts... Eventually they can work loose over time (in a solid engine mounted BEC!) and then it's a right faff to replace.

I also reckon that a flexible attachment to a power drill would be invaluable to drilling holes in the hard to get at places!

One other thing I have noticed is that when I pushed the tank hard enough forwards (from the back) you could actually make it slip with the straps that are mentioned in the build manual. I ended up mounting mine in the same way but tight up against the two chassis members where the tank can touch. I put some thick rubber in between the chassis members and the tank and the tank is now very solidly mounted. And it will also aid in the fitment of the rear bodywork without interference from the rear of the tank.

I'm sure more will come out of the woodwork as I progress with the build!

Chris.

[Edited on 4-4-06 by Winston Todge]

Crikey... How things change... Almost seems like I enjoyed the building bit more than the driving!......

Not quite...