Has anyone ever weighed an MNR with R1 engine, I'm trying to figure out how much the orange ex-demo car we've bought weighs to see the power to weight ratio.
The orange body is heavier than the new one as it's thicker, and it now has a full cage. Also according to a recent article the chassis has since been changed a bit. Any ideas?

Read somewhere it weighed 440kg before the cage, add say 25 for the cage. I think it's a standard R1 which is dyno'd and rolling roaded. That I guess means 150 bhp ?? Anyone know better?

I reckon you're about right.

an early RT+ without the full cage, with the lightweight bodywork, with a fireblade engine was weighed in 397kg.

My RT (sierra uprights and vented discs) with standard bodywork, padded seats, boot box, R1 engine, LSD and heavy bolt on shaft and a big bag FULL of tools weighed 540kg wet. I wish I'd remembered to remove the tools to get a proper weight.

I'd have thought an RT+ without a full cage or boot box would be just under 500kg.


[Edited on 30-11-2006 by smart51]

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Originally posted by smart51
I'd have thought an RT+ without a full cage or boot box would be just under 500kg.

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My RT+ with zx12r and very heavy cossie diff/shafts is 540kg wet...

I would imagine an R1 engined version with open diff will come in around 490kg..

your looking at about 330bhp per ton

Lighter than a V8 one .

Regards

Agriv8

What does your V8 car weigh?

I was hoping to be much lighter than this!

My old CBR1000 MK with Cobra Roadster7s, Carpet, Stainless Tank, 17s etc etc weighed 565kgs!

{Edit to remove huuuuge overstatement}

[Edited on 30/11/06 by TimC]

more than a R1 one .

About 650 - 700 wet ( I belive will get it on the scales when I next swap the front spring )

regards

Agriv8

Not an MNR but our virtually standard ZX12R MK Indy weighs in at less than 500kg (weighbridge +-10Kg). It also has Sierra Hubs/Diff bootbox, diffuser etc.

500kg+ for a R1 sounds a bit too much.

TimC what are you dissapointed about 100kg difference is huge

itll make an r1 motor stinkingly quicker responsive etc

go and take a load of stuff of you tin top car to save weight fill a box full of interior poo and youd be lucky to put 6kg in there not including seats

were talking about cars that are already fully stripped and then saving another 30 40 50kg

Tim
the orange one has heavier body work and has a quaife reverse box too, should be good for a few kilos.

Ok, I've edited my initial post as I've hugely ovestated my feelings.

In my mind, I always wanted to get to 440kgs (and 155bhp) to give 350bhp/tonne. I don't necessarily expect this 'out of the box' as I'm not going for Wilwoods and ali hubs and the driver's seat I've ordered has a little foam and vinyl on top of the fibreglass shell. All (perhaps except the seat) I plan to upgrade later.

However, on reflection I don't think I'll be far off with lightweight bodywork, 13s, a tiny fuel tank and stripped loom.

I just don't fancy being overtaken by a Sprint-R (that means you Mr Mason )or pesky Striker!

quote:

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Originally posted by TimC
Ok, I've edited my initial post as I've hugely ovestated my feelings.

In my mind, I always wanted to get to 440kgs (and 155bhp) to give 350bhp/tonne. I don't necessarily expect this 'out of the box' as I'm not going for Wilwoods and ali hubs and the driver's seat I've ordered has a little foam and vinyl on top of the fibreglass shell. All (perhaps except the seat) I plan to upgrade later.

However, on reflection I don't think I'll be far off with lightweight bodywork, 13s, a tiny fuel tank and stripped loom.

I just don't fancy being overtaken by a Sprint-R (that means you Mr Mason )or pesky Striker!

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Originally posted by G.Man

spend the money on a vortx super with t45 chassis..

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Our RT+ with full cage, lightweight bodywork, muffet diff, Raceleda front end, '05 R1, 13" compomotives and two seats weighs in at 460kg.

The '05 R1 weighs 70kg dry with all electrics and ECU.

Seats have Sparco runners (at 2kg a set plus mountings). You can save some track day weight by leaving out interior panels and only having one seat.

Your car probably weighs about the same as the cage/bodywork difference is probably similar.

orange car now weighs 505kg with full cage, and full of fuel (approx 40 litres) and with the 15s tsw wheels, as mentioned the orange bodywork is heaveir than normal due to colour had to be thick so the colour didnt look see through
whilst redoing the website im doing a small database like fluke had giving weights for each component so you can calculate how / where to save weight, trimming all bolts to correct length and using cap heads saves from memory 7kg on a whole car, wheels are a big area to save weight, as are seats, comfy ones we use are 7kg heavier each than a fibre glass version, got to weigh my racecar again today if i have chance so will update what it is now its finished

best regards

marc

Hi so 40L of fuel is 28kg and the full cage is an extra 14kg =42kg so car 505kg - 42kg = 463 kg with no fuel.

Less 10kg for extra bits and heavey paint you have a total'ish of 453kg plus fuel.

cheers matt

quote:

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Originally posted by G.Man
spend the money on a vortx super with t45 chassis..

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quote:

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Hi so 40L of fuel is 28kg and the full cage is an extra 14kg =42kg so car 505kg - 42kg = 463 kg with no fuel.

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Marc

Any idea what the weight saving from the T45 is?

TC

Cheers for that Marc, very helpful!
Do you know what the output is, says somewhere that you had it rolling road tuned??
Just on a minor point for builders planning an SVA, the inspectors need to see two full threads past important fixing bolts, so don't trim too tight initially.

and never underestimate the power of good laxitives, cheapest way by far of upping power to weight.

cant remember what the output was on rollers, i would think it will be as per std bike at flywheel maybe + 5hp for exhaust and filter over stock.

tim t45 weight saving on entire car approx 15 -20 kg but that allowed me on my car to add more triangulation so probably only 10 kg difference

the main reason of using a proper tube rather than erw is stricter tollencences as erw can vary in wall thickness dramatically meaning three chassis exactly the same will all vary in weight slightly whereas there is less likely hood of that happening with t45

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and never underestimate the power of good laxitives, cheapest way by far of upping power to weight.

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am I missing the point these weights are coming out the same as what my MK was with 16" team dynamics 460kg or there abouts

I could have got down to 430kg with 13" wheels and light brakes?

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Originally posted by marc n

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and never underestimate the power of good laxitives, cheapest way by far of upping power to weight.

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good point

one of the single heaviest parts of bec is the driver unless your a stickman like me

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Originally posted by marc n
car approx 15 -20 kg but that allowed me on my car to add more triangulation so probably only 10 kg difference

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am I missing the point these weights are coming out the same as what my MK was with 16" team dynamics 460kg or there abouts

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It's sad but true, but the extra cash is probably better spent (for me) on a few Personal Trainer Sessions in the gym to lose the gut!

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sorry I thought he wanted more bhp per ton figures

I have lost 13kg this year... off my body not my car

missed this thread, Hi Tim c. ive just replaced the s/steel tank with a 1.6 alloy one i made at work. Saved 10 kg. just removed the seats and weighted them, each one was 12.5 kg, so if the 3kg grp ones are actually 3kg thats another 19 kg.

So far i have saved 29kg, almost 10% of the car. Just got to take a wheel off and compair it to some 15" ers i have from her puma (she will never notice lol). I thought it was going to be impossible but it looks achievable without loosing the looks of the car.

I could have sworn I told you all this aswell

is the NOS still connected? take it out?
for now

if you went from your wheels to some TD 15" or OZ

you could save up to 30kg

15" ford wheels would still be a benefit

what you need to do is do everything all the weight saving within reason THEN go for a thrash

dont do little bits and go out as it wont have the same effect


chris

quote:

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Originally posted by Moorron
missed this thread, Hi Tim c. ive just replaced the s/steel tank with a 1.6 alloy one i made at work. Saved 10 kg. just removed the seats and weighted them, each one was 12.5 kg, so if the 3kg grp ones are actually 3kg thats another 19 kg.

So far i have saved 29kg, almost 10% of the car. Just got to take a wheel off and compair it to some 15" ers i have from her puma (she will never notice lol). I thought it was going to be impossible but it looks achievable without loosing the looks of the car.

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ive removed the bottle and brackets a long time ago. but im leaving the solinoids in as i havent even tried it yet. im doing all the work now whilst the car is off the road for the winter, so it should feel fast, however i think it will even if i didnt do the mods as i have not used it for a few months.

15" oz's should still look ok i think. Anyone got a weight of one with a 205 tyre fitted? so i can compair them with what i have.

I agree tim, but i want to retain LSD and have no idea if i can do this. I think this is the last thing on the list tho.

cheers.

15" oz weighs about 5 kg dont know about the tyre

thats an OZ supeleggera by the way

13kg's with 205 toyo 888's

Discovered a good way of saving 7.5kg if it's an MNR factory built car. Just remove the lower 4 harness mount, this will result in a great steel plate, which stretches the width of the car and 8inches wide, dropping onto the floor!
Then weld mounting plates onto the bottom of the chassis. How come you didn't think of that Marc??

quote:

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Originally posted by bitsilly
Discovered a good way of saving 7.5kg if it's an MNR factory built car. Just remove the lower 4 harness mount, this will result in a great steel plate, which stretches the width of the car and 8inches wide, dropping onto the floor!
Then weld mounting plates onto the bottom of the chassis. How come you didn't think of that Marc??

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Originally posted by smart51
Eh? I'm sure my car doesn't have a big plate anywhere on it. My chassis has small triangular seatbelt mounts, not an 8" anything.

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ditto, that sounds rather odd!

Yep, a little odd to say the very least. It was not attached to the chassis in any way so could not strengthen anything. I presumed it was a bodge to get it through on SVA day and then forgotten about.
Marc?

was it a racing car? perhaps it was ballast to make up the weight to racing specs. Bottom of the car would be the best place for it.

eh ??????

If you race a car, you may be given a minimum weight for your car as part of the race rules. Most people try to make their car lighter than the minimum and then add ballast to get up to the minimum. You add the weight to the car low down to reduce the CofG. You add it to the rear if it is front heavy and vice versa, Adding weight to the centre if it is well balanced. the 8" steel plate may have been ballast.

a few years back, the front running F1 ferraris had 100kgs of lead in the bottom.

quote:

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Originally posted by smart51
If you race a car, you may be given a minimum weight for your car as part of the race rules. Most people try to make their car lighter than the minimum and then add ballast to get up to the minimum. You add the weight to the car low down to reduce the CofG. You add it to the rear if it is front heavy and vice versa, Adding weight to the centre if it is well balanced. the 8" steel plate may have been ballast.

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Originally posted by bitsilly
Yep, a little odd to say the very least. It was not attached to the chassis in any way so could not strengthen anything. I presumed it was a bodge to get it through on SVA day and then forgotten about.
Marc?

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I've just popped out in my car to pick something up localy, the drive took me 30 minutes for some reason

The place I was picking the bits up from had a weighbridge so I asked if I could weigh the car. With half a tank of fuel it weighed in at 433kg (+/- 10kg)

How did that compare to the SVA weight Paul?
You muct be a bit happier with that

Rgds

Rich

Everyone can cut 10Kg by not eating all them pies!!

quote:

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Originally posted by chockymonster
I've just popped out in my car to pick something up localy, the drive took me 30 minutes for some reason

The place I was picking the bits up from had a weighbridge so I asked if I could weigh the car. With half a tank of fuel it weighed in at 433kg (+/- 10kg)

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SVA weight had it at 500kg (280 front, 220 rear from memory)

I haven't gone light weight everywhere, but anything I've purchased I have always gone for the lighter options. My wheels are lighter than CXRs for example. I've still got the Raceleda ally hubs to fit, I'm not sure they're massively lighter but it's another kilo or so.

quote:

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Originally posted by coozer
Everyone can cut 10Kg by not eating all them pies!!

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Regarding "what I'm on about", I thought I had explained it quite well, it's a great big plate of steel.
Regarding it's point, I'm sure Marc will explain if he wants to.
The car was never raced as far as I have been told by MNR.
Over and out.

Bitsilly, nobody was having a dig, but see it from our points of view. Most of us who posted in this thread have pretty intimate knowledge of the MNR chassis in one guise or another so for somebody to suggest there is a large piece of steel not connected to anything, is bound to raise an eyebrow or two.

The very phrase "was not attached to the chassis in any way" is puzzling enough.

To use words like "bodge" is also likely to arouse questions. It is something very clearly different to everyones chassis so naturally we are intrigued.

Not being a smartar5e but give us a clue.


[Edited on 13/1/07 by RichieC]

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Originally posted by bitsilly
Over and out.

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I dont think it ever was raced, but I'm sure it was planned and built to be his racing car.
Somewhere along the line (ie probably realising he hadn't enough time to race it!) it got modified to be road legal.
The forgotten ballast sounds like the likeliest suggestion.

quote:

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Originally posted by bitsilly
Regarding "what I'm on about", I thought I had explained it quite well, it's a great big plate of steel.
Regarding it's point, I'm sure Marc will explain if he wants to.
The car was never raced as far as I have been told by MNR.
Over and out.

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Look, I obviously have a lot of time for Chris and Marc @ MNR but I do know that Ed and John have had to put a lot of work in to get the Orange car up-to-scratch so I can understand Ed's tone and concern. All was not cock-on when they got the car back to Wales.

Give him a break!

G-man,
I too am sure Marc will explain, which is why I said 'I'm sure marc will explain'.
Yes I could have phoned him but why should I phone him, I didn't have a question I just had a way of saving 7.5 kilos if other cars were made in the same way.
This is a discussion forum, why shy away from negative points. Both positive and negative aspects are allowed to be discussed, cleverer manufacturers will use this information in their development and builders can learn from others ideas.
Regarding using the b word instead of "take a course of non permanent action", well I was bang out of order and can only apologise for being so vulgar.

Bitsilly, I think your'e barking up the wrong tree mate.

I don't think anyone is blindly jumping to MNR's defence, my point and I think that of others was that your original post wasn't clear.
I'll reiterate the point; we are [mostly] all MNR builders who know the chassis inside out, so for anyone (and I had no idea you had bought a pre built car) to talk about parts of the chassis we havent seen is bound to arouse questions, especially when its not a new incarnation. We're all intelligent people who have by nature inquisitive minds.

If and it seems you have from the tone of Tims' post, had issues post purchase, than that is unfortunate but I for one had no idea you had, or even that you had bought the orange car.

It's not about giving anyone a hard time or break from it, its more that we are intrigued by what it is you are talking about.

I gather Marc is wrapped up with AS07 just now and I'm sure he'll clear the confussion for anyone who cares, but surely mate you see it from our point of view.
Take it at face value, any MNR builder walking into statements that you made is without exception going to ask questions.



[Edited on 14/1/07 by RichieC]

Richie,
thankyou for a voice of reason and I guess you are right.
If everyone read my post again I hope they would see that I meant no animosity. I would love to answer everyones queries but I don't know why it was done that way. It seems everyone else has mounted their harness the way I changed mine anyway.
I hope this wraps things up, I know I can't add anything else.

hi all back from autosport, a little behind on emails etc, orange car was originally built just to race and had nut plates for seat belt mountings when i showed an example of said item at another sva they said they would only accept a mount like that with an ally floor with steel rivets ( body already fitted ) or with a steel plate across the entire floorpan area to spread the load, as the car ended up being quite heavy i only needed 6kg with 2 litres of fuel to ballast to correct weight so used the plate you are talking about to kill two birds with one stone, from a ballst point of veiw it was an easy safe option of weighting the rear of the car at its lowest point and also not having to worry about it coming adrift inside the cockpit in case of an accident
best regards

marc

ahhh i remeber the one know steel plate running the full length of the rear.

nut plates is the answer !!!

regards

Agriv8

Cheers Marc,
as my diet is not going so well I don't think I will have affected weight distribution by removing it!