A guy I know has a 600 bhp Chevy powered Ultima GTR, nicely finished and working fine. Recently, an opportunity came for him to buy a Ferrari F430 engine (400 bhp) which he did, with the intention to swap the engine.

I like this idea very very much, I think it will make his car a lot more enjoyable on the track and I think the Chevy power plant is too rough / rudimentary for the refined / race oriented GTR design. However, personally I don't like the fact that these engines haven't been designed to last lots.

I was wondering about other engines that would be:
-Around 400+ bhp
-More cost effective (in terms of servicing and repairing) and reliable, ideally with lots of them produced
-Reasonable weight and suitable configuration so that it can be adapted with a suitable transmision and so on

First thing that came to mind was the new M3 V8 engine. Then I thought about the E39 M5 V8 (I would guess heavier but less expensive than the former) and the E46 M3 L6 with mild tuning (actually this same guy used to race a Luccini which had a beefed up version of this engine, so I guess it can be adapted for the application.

I'm absolutely clueless about car design but I'd like to know what you think, not something I'm considering for myself unfortunately, just dreaming about nice cars

Thoughts?

Porsche 997 turbo or GT2?

isn't the M5 engine a high rpm V10 engine???

what kind of engine is in the S series of mercedes benz??

brabus does nice thing with the MB engines.

also maybe an V8 compressor out of an SLR etc. could be nice

Tks

Porsche 928?

BMW V12 ... but only 300 bhp LOL

http://www.lambolounge.com/chassis/Engine/BMW-V12/BMW.asp

or jag v12?

BM M5 V10...

Steve

Ford Quad Cam Cobra.

It'll outlast 10 Ferrari engines, and a fraction of the cost to buy.

Audi 4.2L V8 (as per the RS4 / R8 etc) - 414bhp @7800rpm.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDI-A6-4-2-V8-ENGINE_W0QQitemZ120151271713QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10372QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Maybe even the Audi 5.2L V8 as per the S8 - 450bhp or so

Just to add,

for an engine to be nice it needs a high rpm band. The wider the rpm choiche the better you can manage the throttle to maximise the speed in a corner...

Sow search for a high rpm engine wich also has high BHP. M5 V10 would be my bet i guess.

saying that its a difficult engine to install in another application. (lots of ellectronics)

dunno about that ferrari engine

Tks

quote:

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Originally posted by tks
for an engine to be nice it needs a high rpm band. The wider the rpm choiche the better you can manage the throttle to maximise the speed in a corner...

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Hi did the ferari engin come with the gear box? if so one point of this combo is the f1 stile shift and megneto wheal??

having said all of that I guess if you can aford to play in this pool so form of hewland other magic gearbox options are avaloble to you in witch case I guess m5 v10 + what ever gear box is out there

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
Audi 4.2L V8 (as per the RS4 / R8 etc) - 414bhp @7800rpm.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDI-A6-4-2-V8-ENGINE_W0QQitemZ120151271713QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10372QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Maybe even the Audi 5.2L V8 as per the S8 - 450bhp or so

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quote:

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Originally posted by twybrow
The engine you have pulled up on eBay is not the screaming 8000rpm monster, it is the older 335bhp engine - still a nice reliable engine, but not that much grunt (for an Ultima).

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I would say a macca f1 nat asp v12 or a dodge v10 but what's the point when they can supply a small block or an LS cheve that makes the same if not more power and is already packaged to suit the car?!

Ned.

F*** messing about with that - sounds like chaos to me.

Stick to what Ultima knows.

MAC f1 motor? where are you going to find one of those?

Its built to take a chevy. I know it can take others but personally, I would go with chevy power all the way.

LS1/6/7 would be the way to go if you are worried about qualities of an earlier one

[Edited on 21/11/07 by Mr Clive]

I do believe that some DFV V8 F1 cossies are still in existence and can be bought. If you can get the transaxle to match would 1000 bhp + in full race form make it move any quicker?????

It won't meet all your criteria, but these can be picked up for reasonable money,
Description
390hp as standard, easily upped by removing the emmisions stuff, i reckon 450hp with individual throttle bodies and an aftermarket ecu is easily achievable, dry sumped as standard, all alloy, shares the same block as an F430,revs well and sounds lovely.

Al.

Im sorry but your all wrong

Nicest engine for an ultima without going too silly has to be the new 6.3 ltr n/a amg merc motor.

See here

Over 500bhp, high reving and sounds totally stunning. At the ring during the summer it was the nicest sounding thing there by far (including astons, lastest m3's/m5's, lambo etc)

Ok it might not be the most cost effective engine ;-) but hopefully should be fairly reliable.

Jag v12
They are bullet proof, made of ally, esay 600 horse with a bit of playing and readily avaliable on the e of bay

quote:

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Originally posted by speedyxjs
Jag v12
They are bullet proof, made of ally, esay 600 horse with a bit of playing and readily avaliable on the e of bay

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quote:

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Originally posted by twybrow
MAC f1 motor? where are you going to find one of those?

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volvo v8 from the s80/xc90 .

noble will be turboing them for their newest motor .

300bhp from 4.4litres in a trim to meet cali emissions upto 2009 .

yamaha designed , expect great things .

Leave the Ultima alone and talk him into building a P4 replica around the engine?

Look into bringing a RCR P4 kit from the states. $26,495 for the standard kit

RCR replicas




Cheers

Fred W B




[Edited on 22/11/07 by Fred W B]

Alez - if the Chevy is the 'wrong' engine, then why is it one of the fastest road cars on the planet around a track????

The only engine for the Ultima is the new LS7 Chevy engine, £7k brand new, 550+ bhp and over 600 lbft of torque, AND reasonable fuel economy when not booted. Why bother with anything else ????? And it will last for ever...... and it's sounds great ......

I've had the opportunity to chat about this with the guy, who btw didn't get the engine in the end (I was wrong) because the guy who was selling changed his mind apparently.

> Hi did the ferari engin come with the gear box? if so one point of this combo is the f1 stile shift and megneto wheal??

My friend said that, contrary to what I thought were his reasons, he wanted to swap because he couldn't find a sequential gearbox that would cope with the huge torque, so that's a yes

> How about the use of turbos or a supercharger? Would that be desirable or not? Otherwise, something like the turbo RS6 engine?

It would be interesting to drive one and compare it to a naturally aspirated Chevy one, I think.

> what's the point when they can supply a small block or an LS cheve that makes the same if not more power and is already packaged to suit the car?!

The point, as mentioned by TKS, was to get a more race oriented car. But then my friend just told me that his car actually revs up to near 7k, which means I don't have so much point anymore. HIS point was to go sequential, only I didn't know that until yesterday.

My (wrong) reasoning came from my experience with my 4.5 Rover V8. 270 bhp, 700 kg car (or 400 bhp per tonne), and even so not exactly ideal for the track I'm afraid. Reason? It's RPM range is not great, it just "wants" to run at a certain RPM all the time, and its huge torque will force you to it, that basically means you end up with 6 different car speeds you can drive at, with little variation!! I wouldn't want the nice and refined GTR to be any similar to that. But then my friend said near 7k rpm, so all the problem was in my head it seems.

> LS1/6/7 would be the way to go if you are worried about qualities of an earlier one

OK, so it seems Actually he mentioned that, since he didn't get the F430 one, he plans to swap to a LT5 he's had lying around for a while.

> The Italian stuff will be nice when it comes in you new car but as soon as it's warranty starts expiring, I'd be desperate to get rid of it.

Exactly my concern, and the reason why I opened the thread.

> He obviously has money to throw away, so tell him to sell current car and commission Ultima to build him a car around a different engine.

Not "money to throw away", just money and passion, he's a former racer of some scary s***t after all. The fact that he has money doesn't mean he can afford everything. Plus he is a builder (just finished a race spec Cobra built around a Magnum chassis).

> Leave the Ultima alone and talk him into building a P4 replica around the engine?

I've thought so much about that as well. A GTR is sooo ugly when compared to the P4. But then Ultima have THE chassis, and at the end of the day that's what you want I think.

Thanks for all your answers and proposed engines (incl. the F-1 one, yo nutters I said reliable!) which confirm how much of an insane bunch you are!!

Cheers,

Alex

quote:

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Originally posted by Fred W B
Look into bringing a RCR P4 kit from the states. $26,495 for the standard kit

RCR replicas

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That's the US dollar rate working well for the Europeans at the moment. RCR do a seriously nice chassis, well respected in the GT40 scene at the moment. See http://www.gt40s.com/forum/ for more, look at RCR forum and build diary sections

Cheers

Fred W B

How fast does he intend to go? You can't go half as fast as some of these cars are designed for as it is! Unless he's in Germany, and they're just mental - with the mental fatal accidents to prove it.

7K isn't very much much...

also it will depend on the curve of BHP and torque...

ideally you would like the curva like an electro motor has, constant torque from 0 rpm..

than your acceleration will be linear...

tks

Ive got a supercharged LS2 in mine

Magnacharger on a completely stock LS2 with stock cast iron manifolds and stock 2.5" cats it made 578HP 555ft/lb ... EURO4 emissions compliant





OR

Jeff's built a couple of twin turbo 1000HP engines....






The Audi engines are nice too:

A friend of mine has a big block chevy powered pro street capri that knocks out around 600 hp on a holly carb- he's just ordered from the states a complete fuel inj/ign set up and a couple of 'matched turbo's that will give him.......1300hp at 7psi cost him £3500 for all the bits (the engine stands him in at £14000 at the mo not inc the new stuff! it's built around a merlin race block? with cnc ali heads that have mahoosive valves,electric water pump, balanced and matched crank/rods etc,eyc