clutch_kick
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| posted on 18/1/06 at 03:23 PM |
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A bike engine for my application
Hi guys. I've scraped the idea of using a car engine simply because i want to try something new, and i want sequential gears.
So being a total nitwit about bike engines i'm going to ask for some help. I'm planning on a Vortx RT, so what bike engine should i go
for considering the following :
1) I want to use Haltech E11 ECU to operate it on fuel injection.
2) It gets very hot in Malta 
3) Will be used in the occasional sprint or Hillclimb.
4) Emmissions testing is a headache here.
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smart51
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| posted on 18/1/06 at 04:09 PM |
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I believe that MNR have found R1s and blades to be easier to get though SVA emissions than the ZX12.
Why do you want to use your own fuel injection when many bike engines come with their own?
The heat of Malta should be no problem for your engine but you will want a good cooling system. MNR will supply you with a big radiator and fan.
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 18/1/06 at 04:35 PM |
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Well i love tweaking ECU's. We recently set-up my friend's Fiat Uno turbo with the haltech, very userfriendly and flexible, doing approx
320bhp from a 1400cc.
But i will get the engine running on it's original ECU first, makes more sense when you have to learn a new engine.
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RichieC
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| posted on 18/1/06 at 04:55 PM |
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Sorry mate, 320BHP from an Uno Turbo ie?
Clearly more than just ECU work
How reliable is that going to be....
As for the question, having had a good play about with many ECUs from pectel to dastech, I would recommend against it.
If youre set on a bike engine with injection, use a power commander to allow a bit of tweaking of the map and to help get it through emmissions.
As for entry points, Im not sure how much a Power Commander gives you so Im not entirely sure this would suit you.
Speak to MNR about their recommendation for a bike engine, an R1 is more than adequate for most aplications and IMHO the ZX12/Busas arent worth the
extra expense.
The choices have been done to death, have a search about and see what owners think about it, Im sure therell be some like minded souls
Rich
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lsdweb
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| posted on 18/1/06 at 04:57 PM |
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Hi clutch_kick
I'm also planning on using my Emerald management system on my bike engine (R1- original intention was a Blackbird - see my other posts!).
The one complication is that some of the bike crank pickup sensors are unique (Honda 12/3) and you may find difficulty getting an after market
management system to work with these. You're then stuck with trying to fit an external crank sensor wheel (tricky) or, like I'm
considering, removing the generator and fitting a sensor / wheel in the space left - no good for a road car unless you fit an external alternator.
Regards
Wyn
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 18/1/06 at 05:10 PM |
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RichieC ... yes it is more than just ECU fiddiling. It's the fruit of 2 yrs .. one dead engine, a few turbos, individual throttle bodies, bigger
valves, intercooler, 8 injectors ... and a lot of fuel!! ... and yes it's reliable at a lovely 1.8bar boost 
lsdweb ... we used rare earth magnets on the Crank Pulley to get a speed signal.
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RichieC
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| posted on 18/1/06 at 05:35 PM |
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Might be worth posting some questions in the BEC forum here or the Yahoo BEC list too, loads of experience and Im sure someones tried it before.
Rgds
Rich
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 18/1/06 at 10:43 PM |
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Well i'm pretty much committed to building a Vortx. I just need to get the money togather, since i'm also building a house right now. So
i thought i'd ask on this Forum. The R1 engine is very tempting. Is that EFI or does it run on carbs?
I have a big respect for Yamaha engines, as i had a Celica GT-Four. Contrary to what many believe, the engine is Yamaha and not Toyota
[Edited on 18/1/06 by clutch_kick]
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lsdweb
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| posted on 18/1/06 at 11:06 PM |
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Hi clutch_kick
One of the problems with bike engines as they don't have an external crank pulley!
The engine I've just bought is a carb version but I'll be fitting throttle bodies (Suzuki), so I need a decent management system.
I've posted on the BEC forum and had some good responses, although I haven't found the answers yet............. 
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Dillinger1977
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| posted on 19/1/06 at 08:26 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clutch_kick
Well i'm pretty much committed to building a Vortx. I just need to get the money togather, since i'm also building a house right now. So
i thought i'd ask on this Forum. The R1 engine is very tempting. Is that EFI or does it run on carbs?
I have a big respect for Yamaha engines, as i had a Celica GT-Four. Contrary to what many believe, the engine is Yamaha and not Toyota
[Edited on 18/1/06 by clutch_kick]
r1 is carbs 1998 - 2001 (4xv + 5jj models) , EFI 2002 onwards.
AFAIK the engine in my ford puma is Yamaha aswell 
-Rog
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jimgiblett
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| posted on 19/1/06 at 03:36 PM |
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A power commander with ignition control can piggy back the std Yamaha ECU to allow quite a bit of fettling.
Alternatively a full Kit loom and ECU as used by the sidecar guys will overcome the revlimiter as well and allow custom mapping of fuel and ignition.
- Jim
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 29/1/06 at 04:28 PM |
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So what sort of Final drive ratio should i be looking for, if i went for a BEC in the 1000 -1300cc range? (trying to get hold of a Busa)
Also found that there are differences in Sierra Diff, namely the shaft outputs. Any recomendations?
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smart51
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| posted on 29/1/06 at 07:35 PM |
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I have a 3.62 diff on my R1. It's just fine. Top speed in 1st is about 50, in 2nd about 70 and in top about 120.
A 3.14 diff (rare and so expensive) would give me 59 in 1st and 139 in top. I'd want to fit bigger wheels to get me over 60 in 1st to be worth
while. About 65 in 1st would make it a great back road blaster. instead I use 2nd which is slightly slower but still a lot of fun.
Find out the gear ratios of you chosen bike and work out which diff ratio is best.
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 29/1/06 at 10:52 PM |
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Hmmm ... ok ... well i'll plan things out on the Hayabusa gear ratios. Many thanks for the advice. 120 mph in 6th sounds pretty good to me,
should be fun at the 1/4 mile
Can one change the final drive on a Sierra diff? ie .. go to a higher or lower ratio by changing the crown wheel and pinion?
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smart51
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| posted on 30/1/06 at 08:06 AM |
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replacing the pinion is very difficult, I'm told. I looked into combining my 3.62 LSD with a 3.14 diff to make a 3.14 LSD. I was told to swap
the diff part and leave the pinion well alone.
The good news is that open diffs are quite cheap and the ones with push on shafts are all compatible with each other so you can swap the whole diff
out if needed.
[Edited on 30-1-2006 by smart51]
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 30/1/06 at 12:54 PM |
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so what exactly are the diff ratios available with LSD?
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G.Man
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| posted on 30/1/06 at 01:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
I believe that MNR have found R1s and blades to be easier to get though SVA emissions than the ZX12.
Why do you want to use your own fuel injection when many bike engines come with their own?
The heat of Malta should be no problem for your engine but you will want a good cooling system. MNR will supply you with a big radiator and fan.
Ahem, My zx12r Vortx RT+ passed SVA first time...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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RichieC
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| posted on 30/1/06 at 01:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clutch_kick
so what exactly are the diff ratios available with LSD?
3.62:1 is the only factory fit LSD for the Sierra and was found in the XR4x4 and 4x4 Cosworth.
There may well be others around which have been modified but this is the one youll come across most.
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smart51
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| posted on 30/1/06 at 01:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
Ahem, My zx12r Vortx RT+ passed SVA first time...
.. but was it easy?
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smart51
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| posted on 30/1/06 at 01:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clutch_kickso what exactly are the diff ratios available with LSD?
Sierra XR4x4 V6 came with a 3.62 LSD
Sierra XR4x4 2.0i came with a 3.92 LSD
3.62 are the most common I'm told. In fact 3.62 open diffs are the most common. also available in limited numbers are 3.38 and 3.14 though the
3.14s are very rare.
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RichieC
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| posted on 30/1/06 at 04:13 PM |
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The XR4x4 was a V6 (Cologne) 2.8 and latterly a 2.9. If you mean the 2.0 twincam 4x4, then yes some of them had 3.92s but they were fairly thin on the
ground.
Ive come across more incorrect info about this one subject than any other, so beware.
Bear in mind these are the diffs which were fitted to UK Sierras, they did vary throughout Europe and further afield.
I recommend this by Marty (aka sierra club diff guru) who goes through the
many and varied combinations.
[Edited on 30/1/06 by RichieC]
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G.Man
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| posted on 30/1/06 at 06:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
Ahem, My zx12r Vortx RT+ passed SVA first time...
.. but was it easy?
Piece of wee as my loom was wired correctly
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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smart51
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| posted on 30/1/06 at 06:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
Ahem, My zx12r Vortx RT+ passed SVA first time...
.. but was it easy?
Piece of wee as my loom was wired correctly
Loom nothing. I believe that getting the emissions right was a bit of a pain on the ZX12s, unless you'd like to elaborate...
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 30/1/06 at 07:24 PM |
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elaborate ... elaborate please ....
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G.Man
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| posted on 30/1/06 at 08:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
Ahem, My zx12r Vortx RT+ passed SVA first time...
.. but was it easy?
Piece of wee as my loom was wired correctly
Loom nothing. I believe that getting the emissions right was a bit of a pain on the ZX12s, unless you'd like to elaborate...
The zx12r that had the problem was Trevors, his was wired wrong so that the fuel pump was permanently on, the zx12r ecu turns the pump on an off..
As a result there was too much fuel pressure on trevors which made the power commander erratic...
Mine was rght first time and Marc got the emissions right VERY quickly....
Sorry u were misinformed if you heard something different...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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