imp paul
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| posted on 16/2/08 at 11:43 PM |
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is that a trade add for mac 1 motor sports?  i was told you need to have trade status to have a add like that
[Edited on 16/2/08 by imp paul]
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onzarob
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| posted on 17/2/08 at 08:02 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by imp paul
i run a ep3 type r every day and i say that your not so right my imp will destroy my type r all day long  hmmm let me think why have i spent so
much£££££ on my imp best ask malc MB CUSTOMS lol
[Edited on 16/2/08 by imp paul]
Have you ever been in a 1300cc IMP engined IMP?...5 bearing crank and a spacer between the head and block to get the stroke
It was giving a 135bhp at the wheels
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 17/2/08 at 09:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
So what CECs can deliver that?
You had to ask
[Edited on 17-2-08 by speedyxjs]
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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imp paul
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| posted on 17/2/08 at 10:39 AM |
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yes i have i own 1 full race greetham 998 with wedge head r23 cam hepolite pistons block strengthening kit large sump twin 40s combined inlet and
exhaust manifold cost me lots of Penny's and gives 120bhp IMP 998CC modified to full race spec = 124 bhp @ 9000 rpm/84ft/1bs torque @5500
rpm
[Edited on 19/2/08 by imp paul].JPG)
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imp paul
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| posted on 17/2/08 at 10:40 AM |
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it revs very happy to 10000 rpm
[Edited on 17/2/08 by imp paul].JPG)
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imp paul
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| posted on 17/2/08 at 10:43 AM |
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i have not run it for some 16 years now
[Edited on 17/2/08 by imp paul].JPG)
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akumabito
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| posted on 17/2/08 at 05:54 PM |
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I think under normal racing conditions a BEC is pretty much untouchable, unless you're spending a lot of money on the car engine..
But what I'm wondering is how much performance suffers when you add a passenger? Or drive on B roads with lots of hills?
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Guinness
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| posted on 17/2/08 at 07:27 PM |
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Darren, you've got to come out on a blat sometime! Based on my experience of blatting with about 12 cars I'd say that:
The fastest three are Peter in his R500 (heavily modified / expensive K-series), Mike K in his Westie (VX 2 ltr with dry sump, hairy cams and throttle
bodies) and Jeff (2 litre zetec and no brains / brakes)
Then come the BEC's.
Then come the Pinto's, X-flows etc.
If I was a hypothetical person looking to upgrade a CEC to rival a BEC, you need to be looking at a Zetec or Vauxhall XE. Both able to bolt up to a
type 9 (with the adaptor for the XE), run normal or LSD diff and fit megasquit with bike throttle bodies and fuel injection.
Cheers
Mike
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britishtrident
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| posted on 17/2/08 at 08:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by imp paul
yes i have i own 1 full race greetham 998 with wedge head r23 cam hepolite pistons block strengthening kit large sump twin 40s combined inlet and
exhaust manifold cost me lots of Penny's and gives 120bhp
With an R23 more like 105 to 115 bhp and a narrow power band 7000-9200 rpm.
To get more than that out a 998 Imp needed the special Greetham GE3 cam which demanded a special head (which had smaller 1.325" inlet valves
but bigger exhaust valves) and a very expensive solid billet cam carrier.
To that spec Greetham would put out 123bhp but would pull through a wider rev band.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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JimSpencer
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 09:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
Just a bit of Saturday night dreaming. Im not doing it but thought id open up a bit of discussion.
How fast is a good BEC? 0-60 and top end?
OK - here is the dream bit. You have a nice CEC. But at 600Kg and 120BHP (wheels) its not as fast as a BEC. The car must remain as a CEC.
1. How much power and torque do you need to compete with a lightweight 450Kg BEC?
2. What engine would you choose and why?
3. What gearbox and diff ratios would you go for and why.
Budget is king.
Discuss.
Ok
speaking from practical experience (up to 1700cc specialist production road going class in hillclimbs and sprints, i.e. 7's )
The basics are this..
The competitive cars in the class end up with the following sort of stats:-
500kg's (with obligatory windscreen)
170 - 190 bhp / 130+ lb/ft
And it doesn't really matter what engine you have to get to that..
So the first bit you need to do is lose 100kg's...
Power to weight means not a lot, other than in a straight line, you also have to brake and corner that extra 100kg's too.
Engines..
1.6 Ford SE
4AGE
Vauxhall
All produce the goods..
For example mines a 4AGE
Stock bottom end, stage 1 cams, ballanced with Twin 40's & Omex ignition and it's in the power band above - for no more than a good R1
once that's in the car.
But you do need a gear box as well..
Most folks use the Type 9 - long 1st and close ratio gear set.
Back axle gearing to suit your use - but no more than 125mph at max revs in 5th - as you need lots of power to get a 7 past there anyway..
However
None of them will touch a well sorted Powertec Suzuki at 250+bhp and 450kg's.. assuming a reasonable nut behind the wheel with a bigger wallet
to buy the engine.
But they don't need to worry about that as they're in a different class.
Rant mode ON..
And that's kinda the whole point isn't it..
The entire BEC versus CEC rubbish is just plain daft.
They're not exactly coming from the same starting point are they?
I mean my car has a CEC in it because the class generally requires it..
It's light because it was built light - there's no trick bits in it - but then again there's no bits I don't actually need
either.
And that's what makes the difference - if you're building a BEC it'll generally be very performance focused. If you're
building a CEC then generally it won't be... unless like me it's a requirement for what you need.
Either way we all end up with a CEC anyway - as once its in the chassis its most defiantly a car engine anyway!
Just build what you need and get out there and have fun in it..
Rant Mode OFF..
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 01:24 PM |
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Haven't read the whole thread so pardon me if I miss the point.
My car is not built very light i.e. no alloy hubs, iron rear calipers, many brackets etc that can be made lighter, full cast iron gearbox casing (std
type 9) etc etc.
It weighs in at 550kg (actually between 540kg and 560kg wet weight 2/3 tank of fuel depending on the weighbridge)
It has a good old cast iron blocked Vauxhall XE engine in it, on STANDARD cams, std bottom end with stronger rod bolts (Northbridge Motorsport ones
not that it matters, they are in leicester so local), Jenvey 45mm parallel SF throttle bodies on an SBD manifold (cast by Jenvey) and with MBE 956E
management and a (very) slightly modified "SBD 208 kit" map.
On various rolling roads it has made between 200 and 210hp, and the same spec engine but on 48mm parallel bodies in my grasser made 204hp on the
rollers. These are standard engines, no internal mods.
Interestingly, the "at the wheels" figures are quite good too at 176hp@ wheels or thereabouts.
This all gives around 373hp per tonne, which is enough to be competitive.
Re. the torque values, again the vauxhall hits hard there with, again on a stock engine, 168lbft of torque (both engines I have run made similar) on
std cams.
I have concluded that on the XE engine cam swaps are pointless unless you fit intruder pistons and steel rods, as the pockets in the std pistons lose
you compression if you fit bigger cams, and you can't use the extended rev range of the engine when cams are fitted without doing the rods (well
you can but sometime it will blow up)
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 01:28 PM |
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SBD's figures for the stock vauxhall engine on Griffin Motorsport's Dyno (not rolling road)
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DarrenW
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 03:08 PM |
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Hi Nat - only reason for post was purely hypothetical in a way to investigate what a CEC spec would need to be to be competitive against a BEC. Based
on that most BEC's are light engines and lightweight chassis so are quick and CEC's tend to be a bit heavier and more a GT spec. It was a
just for fun post rather than any plans i may have.
It would seem that a well sorted 200bhp ish CEC is all you need to see off most BEC's. After that other factors such as chassis set up, cost +
budget and driver skill make it harder to distinguish between the 2.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 03:09 PM |
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yep never underestimate the rest of the factors. There always were many cars at race meetings of a poor "on paper" spec that did lots of
winning!!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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cossey
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 06:36 PM |
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attention to detail while building and setup play are very important part. a well setup bec or cec will easily beat a better car on spec if it hasnt
been well sorted.
a rgb class c fireblade car will be quite possibly quicker than many cecs with a 100hp more but an average bec even on with a more powerful engine
wouldnt beat the cec.
both a 165bhp/450kg bec and a 200bhp/550kg cec have similar power to weights (370ish bhp/ton) so in a straight line will have similar performance and
round the corners the bec should have a small advantage with slightly better weight distribution and lower overall weight.
however both would be easily be beaten by a well setup car with a few of the trick bits
bec 190-200bhp 420kg cec 260bhp 520kg
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 07:18 PM |
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and those last figures are where it gets more complicated.
Any 2.0 16v car engine with 260 normally aspirated hp will, whatever anybody tells you, cost a minimum of £4000 by the time its up and running.
A hayabusa with around 200hp, again n/a, would be broadly similar.
Those figures are doing ALL the work yourself and assuming you can find some of the costlier bits second hand.
If you go to a reputable engine builder and ask for a 260hp 2.0 engine they will happlily relieve you of £15,000 as a ball park figure.
There the 200hp busa makes more sense as its big cost jump comes in nearer the 215 to 220hp mark when the new rods and pistons come in.
Again though beware of HORSEPOWER BILLY and his wild claims, even from really reputable sources!
The radical powertec 1500 busa is supposed to be rated at 240hp if I remember rightly, but in reality we never saw over 220hp last year throughout the
season from several fresh engines....................which is the next point, we blew three during the season at £7,000 ish a
pop.........................ah the wonders of "sealed" engines.
[Edited on 18/2/08 by NS Dev]
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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2b_pablo
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 07:38 PM |
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s2000 would be my choice, 240bhp, wail like a banshee too
-----------------
if it aint broke... pull it off and upgrade it!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 19/2/08 at 01:44 PM |
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Not cheap though, very tall, not very light when you fit the stock gearbox either.
Still a cracking engine though!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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nick205
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 12:54 PM |
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Personally I'm still quite taken with the 2850cc / 270bhp Pinto I saw a while back 
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=66377
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