blakep82
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 02:31 PM |
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fuel lines in IVA?
been searching through the IVA over and over and over again, and i can't find anything on fuel lines at all.
i find plenty about the tank itself, but what i want to know, is (and i know it was discussed before) i need to run my exhaust down the transmission
tunnel, its just the way it is. I also need to run a fuel line, which really needs to go down there too. what would be an IVA testers view on this. i
can't find anything in the manual that says it can't be done, what if i was to run flexible pipe inside a copped pipe?
tried calling the test station as i have done before to speak to a tester, it says to phone a number 0300 1239000 which i assume will speak to someone
who's never done a test in their life, and probably never will, except i struggled through the options, and then there was no answer...
i'll run the fuel line down the opposite side to the exhaust obviously and keep it as far apart as possible
[Edited on 4/6/09 by blakep82]
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IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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omega0684
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 02:40 PM |
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there is nothing in the IVA manual that indicates the specification of fuel line anchorage,
but personally i would use the brake line rules as a guide,
1) i would secure then every 10" or so, via insulatied p-clip
2) make sure they don't rub or chaif anything,
3)ideally, not near wiring
4)away from heat sourses where there could be possibility of fire if the pipe were to fail
IMHO
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 02:43 PM |
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I understand that thats the way it has to be, but I'm concerned about the heat have unpredictable effects on fueling and safety?
How wide is the tunnel? Would there be anyway to run the fuel line through some metal tubing welded inside the tunnel with some heatproof material
packed inside so it was completely sealed off?
Craig
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blakep82
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 02:48 PM |
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the it says the same sort of thing about 'fuel systems'
now heat sources, yeah.. but i remember seeing a couple of weeks ago, liquid fuel can't burn, on vapour, and will ONLY burn if ignited by flame
or spark. so dripping on a hot exhaust shouldn't really be a risk (but obviously still not ideal lol)
brake lines run inside my car, fuel can't, but could run down the side of the car, between the chassis and body work. wiring all runs inside the
car too.
i can't even find anything in there about the markings the fuel line needs or anything. its terrible... i might run the rubber hose inside a
copper tube with flared ends or something. don't think i can go wrong with that really
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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blakep82
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 02:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
I understand that thats the way it has to be, but I'm concerned about the heat have unpredictable effects on fueling and safety?
How wide is the tunnel? Would there be anyway to run the fuel line through some metal tubing welded inside the tunnel with some heatproof material
packed inside so it was completely sealed off?
ah, good call! rubber hose, inside copper pipe, covered in this
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/index.php?cPath=261_264
width of tunnel.. very wide. 8" wide and 11" tall. 3" prop shaft is in there and plenty of room all round
[Edited on 4/6/09 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 03:01 PM |
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petrol will ignite through sources of heat, no spark needed. cant remember the exact temperature, but a very hot exhaust cant be far off...
i think an insulated metal tube is an excellent choice as it will contain a leak should a hose fail and prevent too much heat.
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blakep82
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 03:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dinosaurjuice
petrol will ignite through sources of heat, no spark needed. cant remember the exact temperature, but a very hot exhaust cant be far off...
i think an insulated metal tube is an excellent choice as it will contain a leak should a hose fail and prevent too much heat.
oh yeah, i forgot about autoignition of petrol in overheating cars...
this site
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2005/EileenTang.shtml
says 246 degrees C, does an exhaust get that hot?
i remember seeing a video of petrol dripping on a exhaust manifold and it just boiled away
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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DarrenW
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 03:07 PM |
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Tube for fuel hose to run in sounds interesting. What about some sort of heat shield between exhaust and fuel line too? Also,what about wrapping the
exhaust?
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blakep82
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 03:12 PM |
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yes, exhaust will probably be wrapped too. i hadn't mentioned that, as i was undecided, thought if i used that exhaust heat wrap, it would do a
good job of soaking up petrol and holding against the exhaust rather than letting any spilled petrol drip off.
i think the fuel hose inside metal pipe wrapped in heat reflective stuff is definitely the way forward, and i will probably wrap the exhaust too, as
it will be about an inch way from the passengers legs  will make the tunnel nice and toasty too
edit:
or run the fuel hose inside plastic tube? better heat insulation than copper...
[Edited on 4/6/09 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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DarrenW
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 03:32 PM |
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Just thinking more about this, id be concerned about the integrity of fuel hose over time. There has been a few reports recently of people using
proper fuel hose that has perished after a couple of years and either been spotted and changed, or leaked and ignited the car. I had to change some
short lengths under the fuel tank last weekend as they had dramatically perished. Any hoses ran down the transmission tunnel will be harder to
inspect. It might be an idea to run copper or kunifer down the tunnel as the main fuel line to eliminate this (possibly small but nonetheless serious)
risk.
I know the idea of running the hose through metal tube is to ensure the fuel is contained should there be a problem, but maybe its better to eliminate
the risk first and use the secondary metal tube as the heatshield / belt and braces approach.
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blakep82
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 03:42 PM |
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i had thought about that too, i think though, if the fuel hose ran down there on its own, it could split and spray over the exhaust. not good 
if its inside some other plastic pipe (PVC conduit is the perfect size) it will contain the fuel, and the fuel will just run out the ends of the
conduit. not ideal, but it won't spray out over the exhaust, and luckily, petrol stinks, so should be fairly easy to tell if it does split.
i tend to think copper/kunifer (although used a lot for fuel) is more open to fatigue fracture, or if its hit by a stone or something.
i think the use of rubber or metal is kind of 6 or two 3s. i think rubber is likely to perish as much as metal is going to fracture. and sections of
the fuel lines have to be rubber, its a case of where is it going to perish? i suppose replacing some bits with metal doesn't stop the
likelihood of the rubber bits perishing. hmmm, a lot to think about lol.
as long as running down the tunnel won't fail me i'm happy
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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deezee
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 04:21 PM |
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Loads of cars have the metal fuel lines running under the car without any trouble (sierra and mgb for certain) and they don't split everytime a
stone looks at them.
Why don't you run the fuel lines under the car rather than through the tranny tunnel? in a nice slim tray for protection perhaps? Ignoring all
the obvious safety issues of exhaust and fuel, you'll probably get loads of fuel vapor in the lines from the heat, and then get fuel locks.
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tommyab
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 05:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
the it says the same sort of thing about 'fuel systems'
now heat sources, yeah.. but i remember seeing a couple of weeks ago, liquid fuel can't burn, on vapour, and will ONLY burn if ignited by flame
or spark. so dripping on a hot exhaust shouldn't really be a risk (but obviously still not ideal lol)
brake lines run inside my car, fuel can't, but could run down the side of the car, between the chassis and body work. wiring all runs inside the
car too.
i can't even find anything in there about the markings the fuel line needs or anything. its terrible... i might run the rubber hose inside a
copper tube with flared ends or something. don't think i can go wrong with that really
Don't know what the temperatures are, but the flash point / ignition point of the fuel / vapour is what I would look at. If exposing to the
exhaust could reach these temp. points then I would be careful!
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blakep82
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| posted on 4/6/09 at 05:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by deezee
Loads of cars have the metal fuel lines running under the car without any trouble (sierra and mgb for certain) and they don't split everytime a
stone looks at them.
Why don't you run the fuel lines under the car rather than through the tranny tunnel? in a nice slim tray for protection perhaps? Ignoring all
the obvious safety issues of exhaust and fuel, you'll probably get loads of fuel vapor in the lines from the heat, and then get fuel locks.
ther ground clearance is only about 85-90mm, making anything below the floor open to damage from speedbumps... there's not many round here
though.
Tommy, the autoignition temp of petrol is supposed to be 246 deg C, i don't know what sort of temp the exhaust would be. is anyone able to take
any measurements?
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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