jon200
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 08:12 AM |
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Different types of radiator header tank.
I am using an engine that used a rad cap and a reservoir type system(no pressurised bottle) but I have a polo radiator that doesn't have one. Am
I right in thinking I can just plum in a expansion bottle instead? As long as its the highest point of the cooling system.
I was looking at the rover 25 one, any idea where I can get a bracket from for one?
Or can I just use one of these?
Top rad hose filler cap
[Edited on 15/1/13 by jon200]
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GOJO
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 09:00 AM |
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Pretty much but you will need to know the flow of the system for a return hose to top of said cooling bottle and the lower hose will feed the system
(flow) and is a rover pressure cap release at that of the cap of original system ?.
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johnemms
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 09:14 AM |
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I got a rover bottle at the highest point with 1 feed - no return.
Used only as expansion.
I plumbed it to the thermostat housing & have a bleed screw on top of the thermostat housing..
No problems - all good so long as your rad fans works.. 
If you go to the scrap yard - get the warning sticker that fits on the filler neck - not sure if its required for IVA but mine was black .. different
languages and warned of hot water - do not open - blahh blahh
[Edited on 15/1/13 by johnemms]
Own chassis & Build - First time pass!!
"7's" aren't really "cars", they are 'experiences"
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 09:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by johnemms
I got a rover bottle at the highest point with 1 feed - no return.
Used only as expansion.
If you don't have a feed from the bottom of the expansion bottle any water that enters it as the engine heats up cannot return as it cools down.
With a sealed system that is an essential design feature.
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johnemms
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 09:25 AM |
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Oh yeah .. large feed is off the bottom - small return pipe on the top blocked off..
Feel free to put a small bore return pipe & restrictor in ..
[Edited on 15/1/13 by johnemms]
Own chassis & Build - First time pass!!
"7's" aren't really "cars", they are 'experiences"
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jon200
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 11:20 AM |
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So as long as I have a 1.3 bar cap it will do the same as the reservoir type. What stops the water coming up the small return pipe and why does the
flow matter if its only expansion.
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 11:28 AM |
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The small one at the top of my expansion bottle is teed from two outlets, one from the stat housing and one from the top of the radiator, these allow
any air to bleed out of the sytem automatically. That is the way manufacturers arrange their cooling systems.
Flow matters because as the engine heats up water expands into the bottle, as it cools down it re enters the engine. This is via the bottom pipe. The
bottle should be kept about 1/2 full at all times.
[Edited on 15/1/13 by Paul Turner]
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johnemms
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 11:29 AM |
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I got IVA'd last October - 1700 crossflow - mapped & dyno
Polo radiator with electric fan switch built in.
One pipe off thermostat housing to expansion bottle.
Rover bottle & cap..
50/50 mix antifreeze/water
Been driving it like i stole it.... no overheating..
not had to touch it ...
all good here
 
polo rad vw gti fittings
 
Sticky Yokohama Tyres
[Edited on 15/1/13 by johnemms]
Own chassis & Build - First time pass!!
"7's" aren't really "cars", they are 'experiences"
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britishtrident
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 12:33 PM |
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The OEM way is
Bottle top inlet (smaller bore) connection to top of engine or top of radiator. This can be a very small bore connection as it is only needed
to vent trapped air.
Bottle bottom outlet to engine bottom hose, this should be unrestricted or filling and topping up the system a real chore.
This setup gives a continuous bleed of air out of the system.
It is also a good idea to make sure there is one only 2mm dia vent hole in the thermostat.
If you are running without a heater or by-pass pipe work drill two or three 2.5mm (no larger) holes in the thermostat to allow some flow when
the thermostat is closed. However it is better to run with a proper by-pass or heater set up.
[Edited on 15/1/13 by britishtrident]
[Edited on 15/1/13 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Myke 2463
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 02:39 PM |
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Mk 2 Clio fits without any brackets required for bulkhead mounting.
Be Lucky Mike.
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 03:31 PM |
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This is how mine looks
[img]
 
[/img]
[img]
[/img]
And this is how its been piped up with no problems since 2001 using the standard Ford thermostat housing
[img]
[/img]
Hope that helps.
[Edited on 15/1/13 by Paul Turner]
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clairetoo
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 03:31 PM |
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I am in a similar situation with my V6 Mx5 - I have fitted a VW rad so no rad cap (the Mx5 rad uses a non-pressurized expansion tank) and I cant find
a suitable tank to fit .
So far I have been running with no expansion tank at all - not ideal , but no problems.......so far 
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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renetom
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 05:14 PM |
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waterworks
Hi
This is what we did , but ours is a bike engine .
And it works fine.
on our polo rad it had a small pipe outlet on the
top LH side , we cut this off & blanked it.
You may or not need it ?
as said the Clio bottle is easy to fit.
Good luck
 
Waterworks R1 Indy
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rdodger
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 05:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
This is how mine looks
[img]
[/img]
[img]
[/img]
And this is how its been piped up with no problems since 2001 using the standard Ford thermostat housing
[img]
[/img]
Hope that helps.
[Edited on 15/1/13 by Paul Turner]
Wow!
That is one clean install!
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jon200
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| posted on 15/1/13 at 09:18 PM |
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I am going to use one of these I think
http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/Expansion_Tank_EXPAN
With one of these
http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/In-Line_Radiator_Filler_Neck_32mm_I
NF32
It will be the most compact solution I think.
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 16/1/13 at 09:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rdodger
Wow!
That is one clean install!
Thanks for the comment but to be honest the photo's were taken when the Blacktop install had been completed 4 years ago. Not quite as clean
now.
With regards to the expansion bottle in the CBS link in jon200's last post it is not a pressurised bottle. It is simply a bottle that collects
water when the engine heats up and allows it to be sucked back as it cools down. Used this type of system on my x-flows for many years with no
problems but there are a couple of things to note.
1 It needs to be placed low down to work.
2 If there are any small leaks in the cooling system or a suspect head gasket it will not suck water back.
3 You need to use the correct pressure cap otherwise it will not suck back.
[Edited on 16/1/13 by Paul Turner]
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philfingers
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| posted on 16/1/13 at 03:55 PM |
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I went for a Clio Mk1/Kangoo one in my crossflow Phoenix
Just bought one for the crossflow Striker. Cost me £7 inc p&p and came with the cap. It's got a larger lower outlet [which is ideal,
it's horizontal] which i'm plumbing to a T in the I/L manifold to WP housing [bypass] hose and the smaller top bleed hose to the XR2 Mk1
filler on the top of the crossflow head. I'm using a Golf 1.4 [Mk3 I think!] rad, which is similar to the polo, but wider at 520mm, again has
no cap. Only think required now is a non-pressure cap for the XR2 header/filler.
What i like about the Clio tank is it bolts vertical to the bulkhead and the hoses come out horizontal
Might have it fitted tonight, if so will post pics up
Clio Expansion Water Bottle Tank 2001-2006 
[Edited on 16/1/13 by philfingers]
The true home of cars born under the Sylva name - http://jpsc.org.uk/forum
STM Phoenix R1
Sold-Sylva Striker 1300xf, 40s etc
Sold-Sylva Phoenix, 1300xf, BVH, 234cam, 2xDCOE 40s, live axle - 'old school', rally car and a few bikes
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 16/1/13 at 04:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
This is how mine looks
[img]
[/img]
[Edited on 15/1/13 by Paul Turner]
How did you get the section of pipe made up?
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 16/1/13 at 04:42 PM |
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Presume you mean the top hose alloy tube.
Bought it from a chap called James Whiting who at the time sold a good range of Zetec conversion parts for Caterhams. Know for a fact he no longer
does them. But James Whiting and Mr Dunnell developed many parts together thus you may get a generic part from him, will be the price if gold bullion
though and you will have to sign the official secrets act before getting one.
In truth there must be many companies out there capable of bending alloy tube and forming swages on the ends, how hard can it be.
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philfingers
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 01:22 PM |
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Finally got the Clio bottle mounted, tho I suspect it may need to be lifted up a little as the majority of it is below the XR2 header on the engine
and the plumbing for the crossflow, using a 15mm copper T piece, with short bits of 15mm copper [plumbing!] pipe with olives soldered onto each one
prevents blowoffs and leaks!
The true home of cars born under the Sylva name - http://jpsc.org.uk/forum
STM Phoenix R1
Sold-Sylva Striker 1300xf, 40s etc
Sold-Sylva Phoenix, 1300xf, BVH, 234cam, 2xDCOE 40s, live axle - 'old school', rally car and a few bikes
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britishtrident
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 01:36 PM |
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Re Tees it is easier and cheaper to use Tees made for the plumbing up water side of LPG conversions the are available in metal or plastic for all
standard heater hose sizes you can also get universal ones that take both 15 and 20 mm hoses.
see 2x universal Engine Coolant Hose Tee Fittings for = LPG,GPL,CNG, Autogas systems
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 02:00 PM |
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Trust you realise that you need to have a pipe from the outlet at the top of the bottle to either the rad bleed, thermostat housing bleed (or both if
available).
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philfingers
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 03:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
Trust you realise that you need to have a pipe from the outlet at the top of the bottle to either the rad bleed, thermostat housing bleed (or both if
available).
Yes, Paul, just awaiting the pipe in the right size to the XR2 header filler unit
The true home of cars born under the Sylva name - http://jpsc.org.uk/forum
STM Phoenix R1
Sold-Sylva Striker 1300xf, 40s etc
Sold-Sylva Phoenix, 1300xf, BVH, 234cam, 2xDCOE 40s, live axle - 'old school', rally car and a few bikes
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