FASTdan
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| posted on 3/7/13 at 10:40 AM |
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Central Heating - Advise on how best to set-up/run
We bought our current house about 18 months ago, spent 6 months renovating (rebuilding porch/extension, kitchen/diner refit and bathroom refit) and
moved in a bit over 12 months ago.
During that I converted the hot water and C/H to both be a sealed system eliminating all header tanks and allowing me to move the hot water cylinder
to the cellar freeing up valuable room in the bathroom. I also split the C/H to be upstairs/downstairs independent with their own thermostats. All
radiators have TRV's. Boiler is about 4 years old but barely used as the old lady had an aga that she relied on for most things.
House is a quite spacious 4 bed end terrace (3 bed first floor, then attic room), stone built. About 70% double glazed and has at some point had
cavity wall insulation and loft insulation up to current spec.
Now my initial thoughts were that the split upstairs/downstairs C/H would be more economical allowing me to run downstairs 4.30pm-10.30pm ish, and
upstairs coming on around 8pm-11pm. Mornings both on for a couple of hours. However the winter gas bill was quite frankly eye watering!! OK so we
moved from a 1-bed mid terrace cottage that cost nothing to run, to a much bigger house so a hike in bills was expected, but not to this level! The
annoying thing is the house was never 'that' warm over winter - again we both accept that a house like this you might need to wear a bit
more clothing.
So just after a bit of advice from anyone in the know about this sort of thing - is a split running cycle worth bothering with? Im thinking maybe only
works if you can really physically seperate upstairs and downstairs (ie shut doors) and perhaps otherwise you just end up with the downstairs heating
working twice as hard as its all going up the stairs. I also noticed that with the high ceilings (nice and warm at ceiling level!!) the time to get
the house up to temp was substantial - so perhaps there's not a lot of benefit to scrounging on the run-times as most money is spent getting it
up to temp in the first place?
Also, as part of the install I was advised by a plumber to fit the wall mounted stats in the hallway and landing - but on reflection I'm not
sure I should have bothered if TRV's are present in every room? Surely they just fight each other?
Its also worth mentioning that we have a woodburner in the kitchen/diner but this was only operational for about half the winter due to waiting on
getting the chimney liner sorted.
What I'm really scared of is that my wife will be starting maternity in Oct - so will be home MUCH more and thus require heating during the day.
So I need to address things asap really. Its likely we will run the wood burner 24/7 on a low heat and just use the kitchen diner as a
'living' space. This continual low heat source may also keep the house up to temp somewhat more.
One saving grace is that during all this the house is still very drafty due to a lack of carpets in certain places, the odd holes here and there with
ongoing building works, so I hope as time goes on things might improve a bit.
Apolgoies for the essay!
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Mikef
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| posted on 3/7/13 at 10:51 AM |
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May seem a bit basic. But if you have the thermostats in the hallways and landings, have you got the trvs on the rads that heat those areas on max
setting, if not they never heat up to what you have set the rads for and the Thermostat does not take control. Just my thought , but I m not a heating
engineer.
I have a similar situation that I dealt with a few years ago , and a big part of it is insulation, insulation insulation, a few bob really doing it
well or increasing it pays for itself very quickly. A friend of mine in Northern Germany ( and it gets cold there) always says " you cant heat a
house with a draft " very true.
Mikef
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FASTdan
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| posted on 3/7/13 at 11:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikef
May seem a bit basic. But if you have the thermostats in the hallways and landings, have you got the trvs on the rads that heat those areas on max
setting, if not they never heat up to what you have set the rads for and the Thermostat does not take control. Just my thought , but I m not a heating
engineer.
I have a similar situation that I dealt with a few years ago , and a big part of it is insulation, insulation insulation, a few bob really doing it
well or increasing it pays for itself very quickly. A friend of mine in Northern Germany ( and it gets cold there) always says " you cant heat a
house with a draft " very true.
Mikef
The hallway rad has a TRV - and to be honest no I did not have this on max, not for any particular reason other than lack of experience. Thats part of
my question really, what should be controlling what? The landing rad does not have a TRV (the only one in the house not to).
Yes I think you are right on the insulation and perhaps I have been a bit slack on that front - problem is time when you take on a big renovation
project, drafts were quite low on my list and now I am of course paying for it! I have rolls and rolls of rockwool I bought to insulate the downstairs
floor (as the cellar is a big source of drafts I reckon) but just never got round to fitting....but I will now!
[Edited on 3/7/13 by FASTdan]
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 3/7/13 at 11:41 AM |
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Hi Mate,
It is a requirement of the building regs for larger properties to be split into zones to increase energy efficiency so multiple zones is better re
energy efficiency.
The TRV's are actually designed to save energy by reducing the output of the radiator to take account of solar gain i.e. heat from the sun
entering the property, that's why internal rooms don't need a TRV.
However, they have become the way people control room temperature ie used like a thermostat.
The main problem with heating a house is infiltration losses which is a posh name for gaps in the fabric, infiltration is one of the largest
contributors to heat loss and of course your house needs to be well insulated.
So no matter how good your heating is, it is how well you house is insulated that dictates how much energy you use.
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Wadders
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| posted on 3/7/13 at 11:44 AM |
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Rooms with stats should not have TRV's on the rads.
Zoned systems are now mandatory on properties over a certain size, so worth keeping upstairs downstairs heating separate.
Biggest improvement you will make is insulation, so if your house has cavity walls, get them filled pronto, loft insulation is another biggie.
Whenever i decorate a room now, i rip the existing floor up, insulate underneath and put new floor down, it really does make a big difference.
Would require further investment, but look at solar panels to heat water.
Unfortunately gas is yesterdays technology and will only be going up.
Al.
Beat me to it bigvtwin 
[Edited on 3/7/13 by Wadders]
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dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 3/7/13 at 12:22 PM |
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drafts! its amazing how much difference going round and filling every gap possible with expanding foam, cement, caulking etc etc can make.
No matter how good the insulation is, if cold air can rush in, it will do!
if you've got a suspended ground floor with cellar beneath it'll be well worth filling the joist gaps with insulation, then if it were me
i would overboard the underside with a polythene barrier, taped at joins and edges.
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snapper
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| posted on 3/7/13 at 03:56 PM |
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I've just converted from TRV to thermostat
I'm using the British Gas remote system which you can program and adjust from your phone
The thermostat can be used from room to room but I keep it in the lounge with TRV off, other rooms use TRV to set max temp, I have several rooms not
used so set them low but comfortable, other room set to my required temp
It's saving me a lot of money as just TRV system used to run most of the time
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DarrenW
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| posted on 3/7/13 at 04:36 PM |
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I would suggest first place to look is where the losses might be coming from (im making an assumption that there are some). Iknew a guy who moved into
a really nice mid terraced with sanded and varnished floor boards etc. Then found in Winter that there were terrible draughts coming up through the
floor boards, this is due to the big ventilated air gap under the floor. You cant seal these from the outside as it can cause all sorts of horrendous
problems to the property so i thing in that case the only real solution is to add insulation / seal above the floor boards and fit a new floor. Not
cheap but will make a major difference.
I guess what im saying is that some houses are just built to be innefficient and you cant just go sealing up all of the holes. You have to find
different ways to insulate them.
We had problems in our current house due to Chimneys sucking heat out of rooms so i blocked those up the best i could. Better solution would have been
to fit a log burner and seal the flue to the chimney.
I find just closing doors and wearing more clothes in cold weather is effective, BUT for some reason the other members of the household seem to think
they have a right to a red hot house, cheap bills, not having to wear more clothes and being able to open external doors and windows when they feel
like it. In the end i just resided to the fact that the Energy bills will be £500 a month and the house will be cold.
Once your house is insulated you can start looking at the heating system.
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JoelP
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| posted on 3/7/13 at 06:04 PM |
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I too find that 'some people' in my house, specifically those who dont pay the bills, seem to think it normal to walk around in winter in
a tee shirt with no socks on, then complain its cold and put the fire on too. The easiest solution here is to move the energy bills to their bank
account, and see how fast they start digging out jumpers.
On a more serious note, drafts are a killer. Theres no point insulating when you have a gale blowing through the house.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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sky12042
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| posted on 3/7/13 at 08:22 PM |
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I waited for a nice windy day then went around the house with various sealing products and found all the draughts and sealed them up. Made a huge
difference to the temperature I was able to get, and was able to turn down most of the trv's and made a difference to my bills.
Obviously bear in mind that some ventilation maybe need dependant on your property type and any heat sources like wood burner, gas appliances etc.
I found that a recently fitted 3-4 years ago set of French doors where not sealing very well and needed adjustment and a little bit of extra seals
around the doors. So wait on that windy day and seal them up...
Andy
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