chunkytfg
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 11:34 AM |
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MNR build manual on there website
ANyone have access to a copy?
I would like to see just quite what is involved in building one and marc n is away atm so i cant get hold of him.
chunkytfg @ hotmail.com
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millemg
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 02:56 PM |
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Only when you order one 
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TimC
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 03:59 PM |
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Owt to hide - honest.
Far easier than Panther, or MK.
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chockymonster
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 04:09 PM |
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The build manual is great if you're an engineer, I found it easier to look at the pictures but then that's often how I read
There's not really a lot to say about it, it's come on alot since I built mine but it's not really needed, I used it more of a do
this step first, then this and even then more of a reference guide. The kit is very straightforward to build, especially with the modifications Marc
keeps making!
PLEASE NOTE - Responses on Forum Threads may contain Sarcasm and may not be suitable for the hard of Thinking.
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smart51
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 04:27 PM |
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I haven't seen their build manual and I build one of their cars! They only wrote the manual after I'd finished mine. I had the second
generation chassis but they've changed it loads since to make it easier to build.
In terms of difficulty, I'd say it was easy. Rivets nuts and bolts mainly. I do think that they should open up their manual to potential
customers. It would make more nervous non-technical types more likely to buy I'd think.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 08:56 PM |
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IMHO - there is always 2 reasons for wanting to hide something away...
1. Because it's THAT good, and you are trying to protect it (which never works).
2. Because it's THAT bad and you're ashamed of it (which also never works).
Steve
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millemg
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| posted on 19/5/07 at 06:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
IMHO - there is always 2 reasons for wanting to hide something away...
1. Because it's THAT good, and you are trying to protect it (which never works).
2. Because it's THAT bad and you're ashamed of it (which also never works).
Steve
NTDWM...but....
....pehaps it's because they spend a lot of time and effort creating a very good build manual / pictures for their customers, only to find other
companies and locost builders using it for nothing ?
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Dillinger1977
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| posted on 19/5/07 at 07:23 AM |
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the manual is freely downloadable from a link on the website, its just that is password protected.
it could be that a lot of it is not manufacturer specific and the thinking is 'why put all that effort in for someone to use it to build another
kit' which is fair enough.
if its to do with secrets like geometry setup, perhaps things like these could be part of a 2nd protected document.
IMHO The best and most useful thing if you are considering 'X' brand of kit, is to find one and photograph -every- single thing you
can.
If theres one getting made at the manufacturer, make multiple trips and watch the progress, again photographing everything. Thats what I did and it
turned out extrememly useful.
Looking at the new MNR manual (which is considerably more thorough than when I was building), its quite useful in terms of construction order, which
is probably MNR specific (ie bodywork has to go on before front suspension)
still a bit light on electrical issues though... 
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Hellfire
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| posted on 19/5/07 at 07:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chunkytfg
ANyone have access to a copy?
I would like to see just quite what is involved in building one and marc n is away atm so i cant get hold of him.
chunkytfg @ hotmail.com
Have a look at the build diaries of the guys building MNR's. Should give you a good idea of how the kit goes together.
Besides, you don't really need a build manual. You just need to apply logical thinking and do a bit of planning.
Phil
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Agriv8
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| posted on 19/5/07 at 09:48 PM |
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I think the main reasons are 2 fold.
1 is the time and efort put into producing the manual.
2 protecting the intrests of MNR.
Yes there are aquite a few cars out there now and and at some point things will start to be copied. But if you had spent 4 weeks of blood sweat and
tears perfectiong the inbord suspension geomatry only to have someone copy it before you had got it established --- hope you can see my point
there is no secrety but if you dont protect your own intrests nobody else is going to do it for you.
regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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worX
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| posted on 20/5/07 at 05:35 AM |
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I fully understood/understand why they would want to keep it for their customers, but this reason (and the reason I was told by Chris Noden that it
was kept secret from the other manufacturers) was something that really put me off their car.
I just wanted to see how theirs went together in comparison to others as I wanted to complete my build in three months, and seeing a car at a show
already built doesn't convince you of things like that.
Unlike Mark (each to their own as everyone knows) I happen to think that the preformed scuttle/bonnet and old nose make the MNR one of the best
looking cars out there.
Steve
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Agriv8
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| posted on 20/5/07 at 10:15 AM |
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just so I have this correct - do all the other Kit car producesrs have comrehensive build manuals that are freely availble before customers purchase
of a kit ?
Regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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chockymonster
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| posted on 20/5/07 at 12:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Agriv8
just so I have this correct - do all the other Kit car producesrs have comrehensive build manuals that are freely availble before customers purchase
of a kit ?
Regards
Agriv8
Nope
PLEASE NOTE - Responses on Forum Threads may contain Sarcasm and may not be suitable for the hard of Thinking.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 20/5/07 at 01:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Agriv8
just so I have this correct - do all the other Kit car producesrs have comrehensive build manuals that are freely availble before customers purchase
of a kit ?
Regards
Agriv8
MK, Luego and GTS do. Or did at some point, as all 3 are also on my site in the d/l section... (I have a feeling the MK and Luego ones may be out of
date, but cant be far wrong).
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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marc n
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| posted on 22/5/07 at 08:29 AM |
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my reason for the build manual protection is the fact it is best part of 150 pages of very hard work that i feel belongs to the builders of our car as
they have payed their money and deserve a decent build manual, as the manual has been improved and updated our cars are going together faster than
ever with fewer queiries and those common quieries and feedback enable me to update / improve areas that are not so clear for people, which is my
commitemnet to our customers, and rightly or wrongly i feel that this is the way it should remain, and if im truthfull i find it hard to understand
why only a few other manufacturers have a decent build manual
best regards
marc
please email rather than u2u
direct workshop email ( manned 8am till 6pm )
www.mnrltd.co.uk enquireys to :-
chrismnrltd@btinternet.com
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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chockymonster
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| posted on 22/5/07 at 10:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CaLviNx
Hi
Is the MNR "that" complicated that it needs a 150 page build manual 
The other side of the coin : you could say that many of these cars don't have a build manual, because they don't need one, MNR included.
Don't forget that not all of us builders have spannering experience!
I'm a Technical Architect designing network solutuions so the build manual/guide was very useful.
ETA - the build manual covers BEC, CEC, different suspension options etc.
[Edited on 22/5/07 by chockymonster]
PLEASE NOTE - Responses on Forum Threads may contain Sarcasm and may not be suitable for the hard of Thinking.
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Agriv8
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| posted on 22/5/07 at 11:29 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CaLviNx
Hi
Is the MNR "that" complicated that it needs a 150 page build manual
The other side of the coin : you could say that many of these cars don't have a build manual, because they don't need one, MNR included.
Oh Calvin thats your view but some customers have never even opened the bonnet of there own 'dailly driver' before taking on an MNR
kit ( ps and they have built and SVA'ed some excellent examples by the way )
I dont think the MNR is difficult to build at all. But the manual is designed so that someone with little or no experiance can build one ( it only
obvious if you know how - if you get my drift, add to this that 'Assumption' on building somthing that can travel at 120 Mph + could be a
very bad thing !!!! ).
It also means that MNR ( Chris and Marc) can try to concentrate on good customer service and develop there cars and products ) rather than answering
the phone on why 'a' does not fit 'b' technical queries.
Please also note that a percentage of MNR customers do not use this forum or dont have access to a PC.
Kind Regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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Dillinger1977
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| posted on 22/5/07 at 11:36 AM |
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agreed, it depends who is building it.
engineers will want to wing it, but some of us arent so 'hands on' and want all the ref they can get. (me!)
to be honest, i never followed it strictly, but i get very paranoid before doing things like carving holes in expensive bodywork, I like to check
beforehand and know if im on the right lines before making a very costly mistake!
it may not strictly need it, but I was glad to have the option
-Rog
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chunkytfg
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| posted on 22/5/07 at 06:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by marc n
my reason for the build manual protection is the fact it is best part of 150 pages of very hard work that i feel belongs to the builders of our car as
they have payed their money and deserve a decent build manual, as the manual has been improved and updated our cars are going together faster than
ever with fewer queiries and those common quieries and feedback enable me to update / improve areas that are not so clear for people, which is my
commitemnet to our customers, and rightly or wrongly i feel that this is the way it should remain, and if im truthfull i find it hard to understand
why only a few other manufacturers have a decent build manual
best regards
marc
Marc,
Thanks for the reply. If it's not avaliable then fair enough. IF i'm honest i dont have any doubts about weather i can do this or not as
i'm very hands on anyway i just fancied having a look. Builders blogs only go so far to explaing the whole process.
Never mind.
Now back to doing lots more overtime to pay for a kit!
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