your network would of been able to supply this.
however i use my finger nails to scratch my face
just been totally fitted up by a pair of coppers!!! was in court for aparently using my phone whilst driving. even though i was scratching the side of my bloody head!!! two coppers aperently saw a phone in my hand, from er 30 meters away through two wind screens when one of them should of been watching the road because he was driving!!! bloody lying bastards!!! just handed my appeal in and got a decent solicitor (will not try and represent myself again). all the respect i had for the police is now totally gone!!!! bunch of moaning donut munching dicks as far as i m concered!
Sure they have an exact time they think this happened and you have your mobile phone bill showing it was not in use at that time.
didnt you use mobile phone records as proof you wernt on the phone ?
your network would of been able to supply this.
however i use my finger nails to scratch my face
I can see why you would be upset at the two policemen in question, but to tar the whole police force with the same brush is unreasonable to say the
least.
John
Calm down, don't be offensive, appeal it.
Oh Dear. Got to get the VISITORS to country money somewere,
not a lover of the police myself but most of it is the magistrates they take their advice off the clerk of the court, and he's bitter and twisted
cos he never got the job himself,
tony
phone records were clear the procecution said i could have been on any phone at the time. yeh guess i shouldn t tar the whole force. most worrying thing is they were both fire arms officers. so guess i should be thanking my lucky stars they didn t think i had a gun in my hand otherwise i d have been joining pour john charles demenzes! have handed my appeal in. going to put my phone in the boot when i drive think its the only way forward!
Agree you cant tar the whole force with the same brush. However I have no faith in the police at all, every time i have needed them they are useless
and every encounter with them is a let down. They seem to have a really screwed up sense of priorities.
Chris
quote:
Originally posted by mad_dogpompey
phone records were clear the procecution said i could have been on any phone at the time. yeh guess i shouldn t tar the whole force. most worrying thing is they were both fire arms officers. so guess i should be thanking my lucky stars they didn t think i had a gun in my hand otherwise i d have been joining pour john charles demenzes! have handed my appeal in. going to put my phone in the boot when i drive think its the only way forward!
yeh same here, thing that got me was i walked straight out and straight to a solicitor i should have used in court today and had been recomended by a friend, the solicitor went through it all and asked what the name of the copper was? and my solicitor said yeh your not the first. he said he d repressented a nother guy exactely the same thing!!!! obviously needs the numbers for promotion or something!
i offered to show him my out going and incoming calls at the road side they said they couldn t check it as that would be an illegal search!
Your comment about putting your phone in the boot from now on seems to imply you have been using your phone whilst driving in the past? that you just haven't been caught the other times??
nope have no need my phone stays in my pocket. it connects to the head unit in my car via blue tooth on its own. i have no need to have the phone in my hand! have never done it even before it was named as a specific offence! the reason i d put the phone in the boot is it will still connect to the head unit and they can t fit me up again!
quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
Your comment about putting your phone in the boot from now on seems to imply you have been using your phone whilst driving in the past? that you just haven't been caught the other times??
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
quote:
Originally posted by mad_dogpompey
i offered to show him my out going and incoming calls at the road side they said they couldn t check it as that would be an illegal search!
The copper probably didn't word it very well but I think what he meant is that it wouldn't be valid as evidence, being that call records can be edited in seconds. To correctly verify whether or not a phone in use would require forensic examination as the bills would only show outgoing.
How can it be an illegal search if you offer to show him the evidence (or lack of it!!) on your phone?? Hope your solicitor makes an issue of that point at the appeal. I've been stitched up by a complete scumbag copper in the past too so know how you feel. Have you started a formal complaint with the IPCC at all yet?? If that copper has done exactly the same thing before as your solicitor says, and the IPCC start to see a pattern of it, they are likely to start looking a little more seriously at it.
the whole thing happened back in september, was that pissed of i was at the police station making a complaint within 20 minutes! the response was that they cannot deal with it until after the court case. as they can t undermine a court bla bla bla then i was deployed to afghanistan for a few months so it s only just got to court. as i ve now been convicted in a magistrates court i ve got to appeal to the crown court which means i need to be repressented by a barister. and you can t get one unless you go through a solicitor, so thats 150 plus vat an hour to get a solicitor and a barister will cost about 500. so all in about a grand. and even if i win i ll only get 70 percent of costs back. so even if i win i m going to be 300 pounds down!!! but its a matter of principle now! the solicitor thinks i ve got a strong case, and hes instructing a motoring barister for the court case, hoping he ll rip the coppers to pieces in court! but i m not going to let it drop. screw them!!
When you win take the copper concerned to the small claims court! His employers liability cover should pay you out!
Maybe!
ATB
Simon
think the main thing i m gonna take away from this when its all done is not to say a word to the coppers, just use the no comment line so they can t twist anything you say! and never repressent yourself always get a decent solicitor to repressent you! and don t scratch your head when driving! shame though could of spent the 300 i m going to be down on a better break set up!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by mad_dogpompey
think the main thing i m gonna take away from this when its all done is not to say a word to the coppers, just use the no comment line so they can t twist anything you say!
blame the government for setting targets, the cps for not prosecuting so the only revenue spinner is off traffic stuff.
always on a hiding to nothing.
i used to be a copper and that kind of crap made me leave.............
get your records and fight it
While I do know some coppers and have 1 copper in the family, my experience of them, through dealing with them a lot when I worked security, is not a
good one.
I even got stitched up by a few of them a few years ago.
Like has been mentioned here about saying nothing, I did just that.
But that was not what the coppers statements said (4 of them).
In truth when I got the statements from my solicitor, one was honest but three others were saying that I was abusive, shouting and swearing. Obviously
got together over coffee to discuss their statements!!!!
Fortunately the magistrate believed me, but what is the country coming to?
When we have coppers shooting innocent people, hitting civilians on demos or driving stupidly and killing pedestrians.
How come the police seem to "triage" other offences like being broken into, or assaulted but are always around and willing to arrest when
you do nothing!!
Rant over
If you're in the forces, surely you can get legal representation from within or you might even qualify yourself.
Had several mobile cases recently and the court has taken the phone records as evidence and dismissed cases - should be easy to get hold of.
Pat...
I seem to remember November 5 as being a significant date for you lot... what could it be...
Oh Yeah! Revenge day for all the bad authority figures in your lives!!!!!
I got pulled for the same thing.
At that point I pointed out to the officer that both phones were switched off, and if he wanted to go further I could switch them on so that he could
see the call logs.
He did check only to find that I had not used the phones. I don't mind as he was doing his job, but he didn't even offer an apology and
told me how serious it was before letting me go.
quote:
Originally posted by RK
I seem to remember November 5 as being a significant date for you lot... what could it be...
Oh Yeah! Revenge day for all the bad authority figures in your lives!!!!!
yeh thing is on that one if you get a ticket in a thirty you kinda deserve it. if you get a ticket on an open country road for doing 78 mph then you should be pissed of!!!! and i just think they re bringing out all these 20 mph ones because they don t enforce the 30 mph limits at the moment!!! can t get any legal advice through work, they even wanted to nail me for bring the armed forces into disrepute until they realised its classed as a minor offence!!! gonna be a few months before i m back in court! you can even get a sweep stake going on what i get if you want guys lol
Does your car insurance have legal cover? If so, maybe that will cover the legal costs?
I think it is a great shame when a thread like this reveals just how much antipathy there is towards the police in this country.
As this is a motoring-related forum it could well be that the results are skewed against the police as it will usually be seen as them that prevents
or interferes with what the average driving enthusiast wants to do (which is to drive at whatever speed they feel is appropriate).
My feeling is that it is understandable that sometimes some members of the police get carried away and treat the public with the same sort of attitude
as has been shown here that some members of the public treat the police.
As far as the case in question is concerned, the problem that the OP is facing is that those people who weren't there (such as the magistrates)
are having to decide whether to believe the OP or two policemen.
If I was on the bench I would go with what the police said, as I would find it difficulat to believe that two policemen would simply make up such a
story. So it would seem that unless some positive proof that the OP is innocent can be produced then the conviction will stand.
John
If the police had been walking down the High Street with me on Saturday they would have had a field day. Traffic was at a crawl and out of five cars that went past three of them were on the phone, not even looking like they were scratching their heads or picking their noses. I sympathise with anyone who is wrongfully pulled for it when there is so little being done to discourage it among serial offenders.
oh yeh, think you should tell that to the brazilian guy on the train! or maybe the guildford four!!! i m wound up because i produced photos to show the magistrates why the police could not see what they stated they could see. across 50 meters of busy round about, when one of them should of had his eyes on the road because their car was joining the round about!!! the problem is police lie, and they do so because they want to convict people they think are guilty!!! which isn t their job!!! they thought i was on a phone they should of said my hand was at the side of my head and not lied! and the other issue here is magistrates! who have no legal training at all! and find it offensive when you show them the police are lying!!! and yeh even with a law degree i kinda messed things up a bit in court. but we ll see what happens in the crown court. i myself now have no respect for the police! if this happened to you i think you would be joining me! all this rubbish from the police about it being 'a hard job!!!!' i ve done 4 tours in afghanistan. been shot at a number of times spat at sworn at rocketed mortered and had one old woman throw poo at me! but the day i decide the job is to hard i ll leave! same as the coppers that moan should! sorry to get anoyed but it is one of those things until it happens to you, you can t really understand!
quote:
Originally posted by mad_dogpompey
oh yeh, think you should tell that to the brazilian guy on the train! or maybe the guildford four!!!
If they both said in court that they saw you maybe you should put in a separate complaint that one of them was therefore not watching the road.
I'm sure they can't argue that police officers see all things at all times!
I've been driving for a living for years, and even before that I was clocking up a good 8+ hours a day on the road and I don't see what
other people are doing in their cars unless they're in front or behind. If the guy's vision is that good maybe he'd be of better use in
an apache rather than an astra diesel
probably just best to leave it as one of those things. should be back in court in two months. a decent barister will be able to point out the issues with the police officers statements! think this got a bit out of hand was mearly wanting to warn the guys on here that scratching the side of your head has now picked up a bad side effect! i will update you all on the result when it comes up! and in the mean time my insurance has also gone up 50 quid on the bike and 70 on the car!! not so good, so the running total is 1220 pounds! incuding fines legal fees and insurance!!! so stay carefull!
Claim for that too then...
Strange thing is half the time I drive home leaning on the window ledge, I could easily be talking away and the police haven't said a thing
Very similar incident occurred a few years ago with me. I had my phone in a cradle on the dashboard, chatting away to the mrs after a movie on the
way home from the cinema, and coppers pulled me over. Said they'd seen me holding the phone to my right ear.
I told them I had been using the phone, but it was in the holder on speakerphone. They called me a liar and said that they were 10 feet away and seen
me in clear light. When I went back and measured, it was nearer 35 feet. I compiled my case, got statements from a friend following in the car
directly behind me, and my girlfriend. They accused me of walking off and ignoing them when I parked up, but I was still chatting on the phone (still
in the holder) when the copper walked up to the window and asked me to get out of the vehicle.
When told what I'd been accused of doing, I told them I had an ear infection & swollen ear canal after returning from holiday 2 days
previously, and could give them the doctors note and prescription if they didn't believe me. Then one held a torch over the book whilst the
other wrote the ticket. I asked how I could contest the £60 + 3 points, but was told "you can take it to court, but you'll only end up
losing and it'll cost you loads more". And that's what sparked me off and made me contest it.
In court, they messed up the dates and apparently found me guilty in absence, then sending me a letter saying my licence had been revoked until I sent
it in for updating as I hadn't taken it to court. That was while I was in Devon, so was driving effectively without a licence, and in turn,
insurance. Then I went to see a solicitor for some advice.
I requested another court date, which happened months later. I went to the magistrates, and the prosecutor was harassing me into just pleading guilty
and not wasting his time. When I put my case forward to the magistrates, they were quite understanding. One of the coppers said he never saw
anything and stayed in the vehicle, the other said I was aggressive towards her. Being 6ft 2 and well built, I can see how I might come across as
intimidating, but I'm afraid I was nice as pie. They were quite nice overall, and I did admit to using my mobile phone whilst driving, but
refuted both officers statements, backed up by my witnesses. My solicitor advised me that there was a 50/50 chance of winning, so in the end I
pleaded guilty to a CU80 (driving whilst using a mobile), on the basis that by not connecting my handset to a unit that allowed it to be used
hands-free, it was still classed as a handheld mobile device. And with no presedent case to work around, it could be interpreted differently. I got
3 points and £150 costs (£60 fine, £15 for the victims of crime fund, and £75 court costs), but the look on the prosecutors face was priceless.
I lok at it in the fact that I've been pulled twice before in all my years of driving and deserved points but been let off with a warning, so in
essence they were overdue. But still, it's not fair to tar all coppers, as I know some that are really good with their job. That and the fact
I almost became one!
i think you have to accept that their will be bad elements in all walks of life. but also that a certain type of person gravitates towards telling others what to do and being a position of power. Best of luck with the appeal.
Holy thread-revival Batman!
lol oops. dont know how i did that must of been in search i did for screens and assumed it was contemporary.
how did the appeal go then?
[Edited on 27/8/10 by mrwibble]