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crimping v soldering
adrianreeve - 21/4/10 at 06:55 PM

What is best to use if I'm joining wires ie splicing new premier loom into sierra switches? Solder and heatshrink or crimped straight connectors?

Cheers

Adrian

eddie99 - 21/4/10 at 06:55 PM

Crimping for sure!

phoenix70 - 21/4/10 at 06:59 PM

I would say soldering with heat shrink myself, but then I even solder the crimped connection just to make sure they don't come apart again

madteg - 21/4/10 at 07:00 PM

Solder and you know it will last, crimps can pull off.

Lars - 21/4/10 at 07:00 PM

I prefer solder and heatshrink

(don't know what's better though)

designer - 21/4/10 at 07:04 PM

Crimp every time.

prawnabie - 21/4/10 at 07:04 PM

Industry standard is crimping as solder can vibrate and break the join.

prawnabie - 21/4/10 at 07:04 PM

Industry standard is crimping as solder can vibrate and break the join.

eddie99 - 21/4/10 at 07:07 PM

Yeah there are a few posts on here. But the automotive preferred way is crimping. I tend to use crimp splices with heatshrink around them. Think it ends up with a neat solution that aint being pulled off at all if you use the correct tools... If you don't have the right crimping tools. Probably best to solder!

Lars - 21/4/10 at 07:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
Industry standard is crimping as solder can vibrate and break the join.


I find it difficult to believe that it is likely that soldering is likely to brake due to vibration. Especially as the wires are not even solid mounted. And even ecus last which are hard mounted and more likely to suffer from vibration

Lars - 21/4/10 at 07:14 PM

Like most things in the automotive industry the standard solution of crimping is probably due to cost

big_wasa - 21/4/10 at 07:15 PM

Crimping is best if you have the proper equipment.

If not a soldered joint is much better than a poor or even avearge crimp.

I now do as much as I can with the heatshrink crimps that are glue lined. They are really solid but can still flex.

prawnabie - 21/4/10 at 07:17 PM

No its due to fatigue life, I know I used to test looms for lucas

Lars - 21/4/10 at 07:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
No its due to fatigue life, I know I used to test looms for lucas


fair enough

but still can't see our cars getting enough use to ever get to that stage

if they do I'll find out the hard way.

Stuart_B - 21/4/10 at 07:24 PM

i would going soldering and heat shrink, all the times on cars looms, just cause with a seven water and moisture can get any were.

as well i had a loom brought from a company and one off there crimped joints burnt out, so i redone all the joints with solider and heat shrink.

cheers

stuart

adithorp - 21/4/10 at 07:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Crimping is best if you have the proper equipment.

If not a soldered joint is much better than a poor or even avearge crimp.

I now do as much as I can with the heatshrink crimps that are glue lined. They are really solid but can still flex.


I agree. You can't beat heat shrink, glue lined, crimp terminals.

adrian

prawnabie - 21/4/10 at 07:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Lars
quote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
No its due to fatigue life, I know I used to test looms for lucas


fair enough

but still can't see our cars getting enough use to ever get to that stage

if they do I'll find out the hard way.


Saying that I have soldered my loom lol

paulf - 21/4/10 at 07:33 PM

If done with the correct tools crimping IS best and is used on aircraft looms for that reason as well.However if you only have cheap generic crimps it is probably best to solder the joints, the main thing is to make sure that you dont get to hot and allow the solder to flow further up the wire causing it to become rigid and a potential fail point.
Having said that I always carefully solder and heat shrink joints that I want to be permanent.
Paul

quote:
Originally posted by Lars
Like most things in the automotive industry the standard solution of crimping is probably due to cost

big-vee-twin - 21/4/10 at 08:27 PM

As an Electrical Engineer I would say I prefer solder, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with crimps, many heavy duty cables are crimped.

The usual reason why crimps are preferred is because of safety of the installer - the less hot works the better!

High Power crimps are carried out using a calibrated crimp tool using the correct crimp that matches the tooling and they are fine.

At our level of wiring (Low Current and Low Voltage) I wouldn't worry too much about one way or the other.

nitram38 - 21/4/10 at 08:35 PM

As an Electrician, there is a specific regulation in the 17th edition regs regarding terminating stranded cables.
The preference is the use of ferrules or crimps rather than solder.
Solder creep causes the cable to be brittle and therefore liable to breakage.
I think this applies to all fine standed cables

[Edited on 21/4/2010 by nitram38]

mad4x4 - 21/4/10 at 08:45 PM

Yes but how many times have you had a wire fall out of a crimp......

craig1410 - 21/4/10 at 08:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Lars
quote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
Industry standard is crimping as solder can vibrate and break the join.


I find it difficult to believe that it is likely that soldering is likely to brake due to vibration. Especially as the wires are not even solid mounted. And even ecus last which are hard mounted and more likely to suffer from vibration


Solder is very brittle. So much so that even the tiny vibrations in old television panels can fatigue and cause open circuits on the pins of transformers. My Dad was a TV engineer and spent many hours resoldering dry joints on the line output transformers and CRT tube panels.

The key thing with crimping is to use good quality crimps with the correct tool. Too many people just grab a crimp from Halfords and a pair of pliers and give it a squeeze. Proper crimp dies used with the corresponding gauge of wire will withstand just as much strain as the wire itself and you will most likely break the wire before pulling out the crimp. One of the big advantages is that the crimp crimps the insulation as well as the core. Adhesive coated shrink sleeving is useful to protect the crimped joint after crimping by preventing water and muck getting in.

Speaking as someone who worked as a graduate electronics engineer at Lucas Automotive Electronics in Cirencester designing wiring looms and ECU's I can assure you that crimps are not used because they are cheap. They are used because they are the best solution. In fact you would be horrified at the cost of some of the test looms we used to build with aerospace quality connectors (crimped) and expensive wire.

Cheers,
Craig.

MakeEverything - 21/4/10 at 10:00 PM

If youve got a proper ratchet crimper, then it will be fine, but im going to solder mine too.

Where the loom is spliced, its best to strip back and solder on. Theres no stress there for vibration especially if wrapped or heat shrink is used.

For cable Terminations, i would use crimps every time- Round, Bullet, Spade or ferrule. Even the straight ferrule crimps help to keep the wiring tidy, though these little buggers do have a tendancy to come off if not done properly.

RichardK - 21/4/10 at 10:02 PM

Crimping if you've got the correct crimp tool but if you haven't then solder but don't let the solder wick up the wire.

All in my opinion of course.

Cheers

Rich

MakeEverything - 21/4/10 at 10:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
As an Electrician, there is a specific regulation in the 17th edition regs regarding terminating stranded cables.
The preference is the use of ferrules or crimps rather than solder.
Solder creep causes the cable to be brittle and therefore liable to breakage.
I think this applies to all fine standed cables

[Edited on 21/4/2010 by nitram38]


But not on cars which are specifically excluded from the 17th edition (and 16th IIRC)

MikeRJ - 21/4/10 at 10:49 PM

The reason soldering is a bad idea for terminating wires is that the solder wicks back up multi-stranded wire (which all automotive stuff is), and where the solder stops you get a sudden change between a flexible wire and a stiff wire. Any bending will take place at this point, and the copper will quickly fatigue and snap.

Crimping (done properly) also produces a lower resistance joint than soldering.

keithice - 22/4/10 at 06:11 AM

B&Q do a ratchet crimper set for under thirty quid... use it at work everyday and on the odd occasion when I have had to redo the crimps, the wire has failed before I've managed to pull the crimp off....

rgrs - 22/4/10 at 07:12 AM

I think the issue here is although correctly crimped joints are correct most of us cannot afford the tooling to produce the quality level required.

I build looms for work and the crimpers alone are over £400. There is no way a pre-insulated crimp and a cheap set of crimpers will produce reliable consistant joints.

When i built my loom i used un-insulated crimps which were then heatshrinked. All splices were twisted along 1" to give a mechanical joint, soldered and then heatshrinked. If the loom is is installed correctly then there should be no movement near any joints, any issues with vibration should be damped out by the heat shrink before it reaches the soldered joint.

If it was my loom i would solder and heat shrink the joints. It then becomes in our low milage cars a forgettable soloution.

Roger

sucksqueezebangblow - 22/4/10 at 08:28 AM

I solder and crimp if I possibly can, or solder and heatshrink. If you get non-insulated crimps you can crimp and solder.

When I did my loom the wiring was right first time but I had a very annoying hazard/indicator fault. When I eventually traced the fault it was a crimped spade connector in a multi plug. I chopped the whole thing out and put a new one in with crimp and solder.