I'm looking for a second car... the only MUSTS are: good MPG, automatic, and be either a people-carrier or estate (for big doggy).
The usual suspects are appearing in the car searches (Volvo's, Audi's, etc.), but I've noticed that the top spec French cars are
looking very good value for money in comparison. Thing is, I know next to nothing about the French car scene... and I seem to have an inbuilt
prejudice against them. 
Am I missing out? Should I be considering them seriously???
French cars are cheap for a reason 
mechanicaly they are normally pretty good but the trin and soft bits seems to fall to bits after a few years
they are cheap because they are shit. my dad had a brand new citroen c4 for a year in that year it went in for 16 recalls.... yes 16!!!!!!!
I would opt for a BMW, IMO best diesel engine around.
I'm biased the other way, everyone should try a French car at some point, but it needs to be very big or very small, buying a medium sized French car is somehow wrong.
Question of Geography me thinks.
IE: English cars have Planet wide renown for being abysmal quality contraptions.
Yes ALL of them, in varying degree, regardless of pedigree or Price..
German cars are 'mostly' as bad Mercs and BMW's spend inordinate periods 'in the shop'.
Often for weeks awaiting parts But those have Status rights so owners keep mum about it.. mostly :-).
But horror stories abound nonetheless.
Italian Cars? Right in there with French ones: Passable often decent mechanisms but built of Straw.
Yet in their respective countries all these products these seem "fine' .
Or it could be local patriotism overlooking the faults ?
[Edited on 16/11/12 by Bare]
Le Poo
Just go to any auction and watch the Citroen Xsara Picassos go through without finding a buyer. The Peugeot diesel engine and gearbox is good the
rest is .......
Then we come to Renault which is one notch lower down still. The turbo and egr problems of the Renault DCi engine are well documented on the net
D5 VOLVO. enough said. youll probably want the v70 but my s60 is superb. dirt cheap and fully loaded.
In herms of people carriers I've had two renault espaces, three ford galaxies and right now i've got a C4 grand picasso. I've never had
any real problems from any of them covering around 35k miles per year in them, other than a clutch in one of the galaxys.
The French cars were, however, much more comfortable than the Fords.
In terms of estates I've had BMW, two volvo v70s and a citroen c5 estate. The only one of those I had trouble with was the BMW which needed a new
engine as it suffered from the Nikasil problem (done by BMW free under goodwill).
So in my experience I like French cars, they are quirkier, they have a more comfortable ride than German cars and I have suffered no reliability
issues. I drive down to the alps around 4 times per year and prefer doing it in the French cars.
Admittedly, a relatively small sample though.
I agree french cars cheap for a reason!!! I second V70 volvo with d5 engine for a good value estate car.
Peugeot have made some great cars, unfortunately they don't make them anymore...106, 205, 306, 405 (all of which I've owned). Same for
Citroen and Renault I suppose, not that I've direct experience.
What's your budget and likely mileage pattern?
had to replace my 206 clutch cable the other day, even with my tiny hands I could have done with smaller ones to hook it onto the pedal!!!!
The old one only snapped due to an incompetent mechanic prior to my ownership though.
The more I look, the more I think my car is a frankin-car, the gearbox -> reverse light plugs didn't match?!?
Thanks fella's!
Some unfair comments in here writing off all french cars! you can't just call them crap without anything to back it up with.
I've had around 10 French car's and only one was a lemon being actualy a Kangoo van.My current Frenchy motor is a renaultsport 225 Megane
which i have owned new since late 05 and has been nothing but a pleasure. maybe there cheap because their value for money and you should really see
through the stigma and just try one.
Scootz if you need something that doesn't fit in with any of your need's my Megane is actually up for sale after buying something that
is'nt french this time.
IMHO, the only cars/vehicles i chose not to work on were french cars, as i didnt like the way they were built, used stange methods, and tools to
fix,
the only other cars, i have never worked on, or actually been in are, BMW, as over rated, over priced, and over here
just added a C2 to the family stable. the first Frog on the drive..................daughters first cheap and cheerful car. for the money you
can't go wrong, the interior is a little cheap, and the odd bit of trim has seen better days, but its so simple to work on. goes quite well
to
done a few jobs on it that would have resulted in major trim damage on a more substatially built car, this thing just flies apart 
a repair on my golf to renew a window reg nearly sent me loopy. two screws and a sharp tug with the C2 its done
Ive had a few french motors. About 6 406s, both diesels and v6 petrols, never had any bother with them. Van is vivaro which is basically french, had a
bit of trouble with it but i do flog it all day and not really service it.
I think i just like cars so much that i overlook their faults, i honestly dont recall a bad one except my jeep, which im still quite fond of!
Id agree with most of what people say about french cars however i had a Pug 106 GTI once, i loved it couldn't fault it
In fact i absolutely loved it , would have another if i could find a good one
this time of year our Renault really fits in well. The amount of warning lights that appear on the dash looks just like a pretty christmas tree.
And come new year without the need to take it to a garage, they will all go out again.....then come on again.....then go out......
My opinion Le poo
They are cr@p. One of the few cars I would never buy
Volvo's make great cheap barges. I am running an old 240 these days. Cheap and chips and they go forever. The later ones are great if you want an
oil burner too. Mates got a 740 and a 940. Ones done 350k and the other one shows 160k nut the odo stopped working year ago. We've got 2 240s,
both 2.3 petrol. Ones on 360k original running gear, blitzes through the mot every year. Mines done 160k and is showning no signs of deteriorating
yet.... built like brick wotsits.... Bits are cheap too
My first car was a 10 year old Citroen Xantia 1.9tdi. I had it for 3 years and it never let me down once. I had the spheres changed after 18 months
but other than that, it was just oil changes. Did 40+mpg and rode like a magic carpet. My dad bought it off me and had it for another 2 years.
Cracking car. Much better than the brand new VW and Volvo I've had since. If I ever found myself in a position where I had to buy a cheap
reliable diesel, I wouldn't hesitate in getting one. Probably for significantly less than the cost of the iPad I am typing on!
I've had a succession of french cars, and looked after a few for others. Never had anything major go wrong, the odd electrical niggling on cars
10+ years old, and by far the cheapest cars to fix. I bought a 306 HDi in 2008, it's been fine until last month when it was time to replace ball
joints, track rod ends and top mount bearings (160K miles) - did the lot for under £100. Only other costs were a new crank pulley after first purchase
(£32) and normal consumables (tyres, brakes). Ideally it'd have a rear beam rebuild, but it's not necessary just yet and causing no problems
but the odd creak. Handbrake's a bit poo but replacing all of it makes no odds, so I'm assuming that's design an all the bloody
replacements I@ve done have been pointless.
Compare that to a friends 5series D BMW ('08 IIRC) which was having approximately £300-500 a month in repairs, similar story before that with his
3 series D. You pays your money you takes your choice. I prefer buying a cheap car and knowing it'll cost buttons to fix IF it goes wrong.
I can't vouch for newer pug cars, but older ones appear bombproof. My MOT garage said he'd never seen a 205 come through with rust
underneath in his entire time as an MOT guy (30+ years). I can honestly say I genuinely have no idea where the anti-french-car establishment has come
from, and I abuse mine.
Scootz, I believe you live up north somewhere so you might get some white stuff fall out of the sky this time of the year and collect on the ground.
That would rule out BMW.
No experience of running french cars but would give Volvo a big vote. My 850 estate T5 was one of the best cars I owned and so versatile. Yes I sold
it with 130k on the clock thinking it might begin to cost me money to keep going - idiot. Wish I still had it.
Or, different direction. Subaru Forester, good space for doggie and masses of go and grip. I had an Impreza for a few years and was impressed. Trim
looks cheap but doesn't wear. Daughter now looking to replace her Freelander with one for the dogs. Got to cost less than replacing the head
gasket/vicsous coupling/.... in the Freelander every so often.
I've had my Espace for nearly 5 years and so far the only things replaced are the front shocks after hitting a seriously rough patch of road (in
Scotland). One of the keycards got wet inside so needs repairing (poss £25 from ebay) and the stereo cd player has jammed - want to replace with
DAB/usb unit anyway so hardly a prob. It's the longest I've ever kept a tintop, got it with 5k on the clock, now just over 61k. Prob keep
another 3 or 4 years unless I get bored. Unfortunately no longer imported to uk or I'd have another. Good when towing our caravan (large twin
axle jobby).
The bits on my MG ZT that broke were all BMW parts (a seriously overrated make btw, along with Merc - just check the customer satisfaction
surveys/warranty retailers etc).
Only real inconvenience is taking out seats as quite heavy, but when removed boot every bit as big as small van, with a lot more comfort. On a run
being boring gets high 40'smpg, locally mid 30's. Avoid the 3l v6 diesel as rfl is £400/year.
Oh yeah, handles quite well too.
ATB
Simon
I notice a few people reply saying they have never had one and go on to say they are crap , obviously they are not speaking from personal experience. Yes, they haven't got the best trim or electrics but the engines are good even if they are a bit different to work on. My old Citroen XM 2.1TD estate cost me £350 when i brought it with the clutch gone and 150000 on the clock , the only reason I got it was for my dog, 13 years later with 300000 on the clock it had only let me down once due to a faulty battery. The best part I got 2 grand for it under the scrappage scheme. It was the best ride of any car I have ever driven and with 45 years in the motor trade I have driven a few
I'm often asked at work by customers, what car/make would I recommend. "Don't buy Italian or French unless you want to see more of me" is my standard answer.
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
I've had my Espace for nearly 5 years...
...It's the longest I've ever kept a tintop...
Simon
My oil burning V40 is fitted with a Renault engine, it is very good
I have run Peugeot for years without any issues, 305, 306, 205 gti, 405, 206 and the SWBO has a 207 they were known as the best builder of diesel
cars, their engines appeared in many other manufacturers cars including ford, rover, land rover etc.
Never had to buy anything mechanical, just rear wheel bearing on the 205 gti which also needed the heater motor kicking every now and then to get it
to work quietly.
The diesel ones were excellent and covered high miles, just looked after the oil changes, none of them rusted either.
Regards Mark
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
I've had my Espace for nearly 5 years...
...It's the longest I've ever kept a tintop...
Simon
Off topic but... Can you still call it a tin-top when the roof is plastic?
At the risk of sounding contrary, two of the best cars I've ever had were French (for very different reasons). I had an AX GT about ten years ago
which was great fun, handled really well and went like a rocket. I paid £700 for it and ran it for three or four almost trouble free years. The 406
estate I had up until last month was also brilliant, cheap and comfortable on a run with masses of room. It just wouldn't die. If I'm honest
I could have kept it limping along for another year but after having it for six years I really just fancied a change. That was another sub £1000 /
almost trouble free car
I think the trick with French cars is to never buy new, let someone else deal with all the bits falling off and then buy the remainder of the car and
run it into the ground javascript:icon(''
I should add, the worst car I ever had was also French. A friend gifted me a 2cv... not one single redeeming feature!
I had one of the new shape Espace (the largest size with all the toys) a year after it was launched. It spent more time at the dealers being fixed than me driving it, loads of electrical problems and a blow turbo and engine. Total piece of crap, and whilst in the queue spoke to loads of other Renault owners all moaning about the crap electrics on they're nearly new cars. And they advertised +38mpg on the 2.2 diesel, never got more than 25. I would never buy a French car again, I would stick to Ford or German.
I think that's the prob with new models - I reckon the probs were sorted by the time I got mine
Re the crap electrics, bear in mind that Audi think it's clever to run a water pipe through the car to the rear washwipe inside the conduit
cabling for rear lights etc. Best bit, is there's a join in the middle, so guess what happens when the plastic perishes
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 17/11/12 by Simon]
I've had loads of Citroens - GSA's, BXs, Xantia, Xsara, C8, plus a Peugeot 405. All pretty much perfect as fas as reliability is concerned.
Also all much better quality than the VWs (Golf and Passat) I've had.
Luckily my current Mondeo also has a PSA engine!
Stu
Thanks again guys!
Bought a Golf this morning!
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Thanks again guys!
Bought a Golf this morning!
And people carrier/estate ish
ATB
Simon
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Thanks again guys!
Bought a Golf this morning!
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
I'm often asked at work by customers, what car/make would I recommend. "Don't buy Italian or French unless you want to see more of me" is my standard answer.
Golf backwards is flog, so nearly french
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Thanks again guys!
Bought a Golf this morning!
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Thanks again guys!
Bought a Golf this morning!