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jawskk - 13/11/12 at 05:42 PM

Hi Everyone,

Im just appearing on this forum to ask about Locost and whether what i was told was correct. Im currently 16 and have a brother who is the same age. We are always looking for first cars and in particular sports cars. Im currently looking at doing an engineering degree to go into Motorsport engineering and was looking for a small project that will eventually be shared between my brother and I. I will list the questions below to make it easier...

1.) Would buying a rolling chassis Locost 7 of Ebay, then adding a 1.4L engine and repaint be the best idea for a newbie? And what price would i be looking to spend?

2.) whats insurance like for first car? I was reading a thread on piston heads and it said that its cheap, but will depend on what engine you add. I will list the thread below as it might be a good read for some people? We were thinking of either adding a small 1.2 or 1.4 engine, or even a modded Yamaha r1 or x9r motorbike engine? Has anyone done this? And what performance do you get out of it?

3.) Do people use these all year round? We do have the option of getting to the places we want to go in the winter, but if possible we would like to drive it all year round.

4.) From start to finish and insured and taxed, what would a realistic price be?

Thank you!

Kind regards

Jawskk


heres the piston head thread..... : http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=502796

eddie99 - 13/11/12 at 05:51 PM

Hi,

I was in your position 5 or so years ago.... Am now just finishing at Coventry Uni doing Motorsport Engineering...

I'd say, pick an engine route that has been done before, putting in a different engine costs more in terms of money and time.

Insurance - Stay away from bike engines, wont get insured on a BEC till at least 21, more like 25.

I was insured at 18/19 for a grand on a 61 plate Panther with a 1.8 zetec. 130bhp

No, i barely use mine at all, never mind in the winter. I said i would use it lots and then went out a couple of times in the rain at rush hour and its no fun. However fit a windscreen/roof and doors, then it'll definitely be more useable.

If you get a part built kit off ebay cheap, then you can probably build one from 3k upwards. As long as you dont mind shopping around and getting cheap bits.

Good Luck.

computid - 13/11/12 at 06:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jawskk

1.) Would buying a rolling chassis Locost 7 of Ebay, then adding a 1.4L engine and repaint be the best idea for a newbie? And what price would i be looking to spend?


You can buy some good rolling projects, but be careful because there are some right cowboys out there. Ask yourself why they're selling it. If the reason is genuine and it looks like a good build then go for it.

quote:
Originally posted by jawskk
2.) whats insurance like for first car? I was reading a thread on piston heads and it said that its cheap, but will depend on what engine you add. I will list the thread below as it might be a good read for some people? We were thinking of either adding a small 1.2 or 1.4 engine, or even a modded Yamaha r1 or x9r motorbike engine? Has anyone done this? And what performance do you get out of it?


Hmm, tough to say on how much its going to cost you. It all depends on what area you live in, where your going to keep the car (most policies specify garage only), how many miles your going to do etc. You won't get insured on a bike engine car for less then about 7k until your at least 21 (not that I imagine you'll have it finished by then!). There was a fellow on here that did it a few years ago but the price goes up and up all the time. If I were you I'd be thinking about a 1.6 CVH or similar, they're cheap enough to insure on kit car insurance and punchy enough to have a lot of fun with. You probably won't be able to find insurance for a car with a 2.0L pinto or similar, 1.8 is probably pushing it. You could fit a 1.2 or a 1.4 engine, I know a lot of people have had good results from 1.4's but to me they always seem a little underpowered.

The other thing to consider is do you really want a bike engined car for your first car? They're significantly more difficult to drive and get used to then a CEC. I like BEC's but I don't think that its a good idea for your first car.

quote:
Originally posted by jawskk
3.) Do people use these all year round? We do have the option of getting to the places we want to go in the winter, but if possible we would like to drive it all year round.


Pah! Yes, I've used a kit car in the winter. No, I wouldn't do it again. I'd much rather ride my motorbike through winter again then use one of the kits. You get wet, cold and quite uncomfortable. Imagine driving down the motorway in the middle of december in the pouring rain with crappy windscreen wipers on a seven screen, water dripping on your head from the soft top and the bitterly cold wind coming in from the side screens freezing your hands.

So yes, you can use them all year round but I really really wouldn't want to do it again, and mine was a fibreglass kit car with doors and all! Not fun IMO.

If you want an all year round kit car there are a few about, Jago's and the like, but they still have their downfalls over a tin top. I guess its all down to what your willing to put up with, and you won't know that until you driving down the motorway getting soaking wet and freezing cold going "Why did I buy this bloody thing!".

quote:
Originally posted by jawskk
4.) From start to finish and insured and taxed, what would a realistic price be?



Thats nearly impossible to say. It completely depends on what you put into the build. Its nearly always cheaper to buy an already built and IVA'ed car, but its not nearly half as fun.

[Edited on 13/11/12 by computid]

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 06:13 PM

Thanks alot everyone, some cracking replys!

The motorbike engine thing was just a thought, i thought it would of been cheaper? but clearly not :L I know what you've been saying about its hard to compare, but i was doing quotes on ordinary cars that were 1.4L and they were coming up as £3,000? Would a 1.8 kit car be less, or the same? How does this work? :L

We were both considering a roof and top, maybe even one that you have to un-clip etc. just for the rainy days and on the bitter mornings then catch a lift with someone... so thats not a problem.

The building thing? How much is a locost kit new then? and where can i buy one? Although how long does it take to build a kit? Would a year be an unrealistic time scale?

Thank you
Jawskk

AndyW - 13/11/12 at 06:27 PM

You can easily build it within a year, but it does depend on how much time your willing to put into it and of course how deep are your pockets. Just remember you can only progress with the build if you have the money for the next parts that need fitting. I would look at an already IVA'd and registered car, just the IVA test , DVLA registration, tax etc people are saying costs around £1000 so thats alot of extra dosh at the end of the build, then you find you dont like driving it in winter. Also dont compare to a tintop, these things ride hard, are cold (unless a heater is fitted) and are probably very tiring as an every day car.

Good luck tho' keep us all updated of what you decide. this place is a wealth of all knowledge.


Edited to say, there may be a cracking locost fairly near to you that might go for the right money, just need to IVA it. Cracking build

[Edited on 13/11/12 by AndyW]

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 06:33 PM

Thanks alot,

As there are 2 of us, we can place in double obviously then when it comes to insuring one will be the insurance holder and then the other will be named etc.

And thats fine, does that mean the insurance runs differently then? and thats not a problem, we are " tough" lads and don't mind the cold, being cadets we have had our fair share of night ex's in the snow. But I guess that is something to take into account. But to me, sports cars and little " go karts" as my dad calls them, is always something I will drive ever since my dad got his z4. Its been something I want to own, and as soon as possible.

Thanks for the feedback so far, keep it coming! we are enjoying reading every reply!

Thank you
Mike

Hellfire - 13/11/12 at 06:36 PM

Bike Engined Cars (BECs) are weighted for insurance purposes and generally cost at least, if not more than car engine equivalents (in terms of power) Most kitcars are insured on limited mileage policies, which is why they are usually cheaper than ordinary cars. If you do any significant mileage (more than about 5,000 miles p.a) the insurance costs will increase dramatically.

There are lots of places to buy kits. Do some searching/research on the forum and I'm sure you'll find lots of answers to this particular question.

A year would be a realistic timescale to build a kit, whether you were building one from scratch, or from a manufacturers kit and can be as cheap or expensive as you want. It really depends on what you want and how deep your pockets are.

Ultimately these types of cars are for fun. They're not really practical and using one everyday (for me at least) would take the fun out of it. I'm not trying to dissuade you from buying or building one but have a long, hard think about it before you jump in with both feet......

Phil

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 06:42 PM

Thanks,

That makes sense then, was only planning to run maybe 3000 miles, just commuting from school and back etc.

I will take a look in the classified section shortly, as i have a little bit of cash stowed away, and need to decide what i want to spend it on, so will look at some prices.

I see what you mean, i guess the only way to find out would be to do it myself, and see whether i enjoy it everyday of the year or not :L

Thanks

Hellfire - 13/11/12 at 06:45 PM

It might be worth getting some idea of which kitcar and engine combination you'd like and then get quotes from some of the specialist insurers........

Also, if you have a little bit of cash stashed away, it might be worth looking into buying a kit with a view to building it over a period of a year or so. That way you can drip feed the cash as you build it and when you come to insure it, you'll be another year older.

Phil

[Edited on 13-11-12 by Hellfire]

owelly - 13/11/12 at 06:46 PM

Just to throw you a curve ball....how about a non-se7en kit car? You can get hard top ones and they don't attract the same premium as a 'traditional' se7enalike. You'll still get the benefits of a lightweight car and experience building/rebuilding it plus it will be a better daily driver.
Whatever you buy, if it has a V5, make sure it is titled correctly! Don't buy a Ford Sports, Austin Roadster, Sierra Convertable, etc if the car you're stood lookig at is a Se7en! Also, buying an older car may come with historic tax status which is free tax. Free for now anyway...
Good luck.

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 06:47 PM

That sounds like a good plan

Was looking at the locost 7 style, but not sure what engine and what i could get a way with without paying to much on insurances as it will literally be my first ever car.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 06:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by owelly
Just to throw you a curve ball....how about a non-se7en kit car?
Good luck.



Hi, im slightly confused by this? do you have any specific names to cars i could take a look at?

Thank you
Jawskk

jack_t - 13/11/12 at 06:50 PM

dont be put off by the bike engine route
i built my car when i was 18 an i got insured on that fully comp for £900
the car cost me about £7.5 k to get on the road but there was extras and was said by many that is was nicely built

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 06:52 PM

Thanks,

£900 is a bargain! what was the setup? and what engine were you using?

jack_t - 13/11/12 at 06:57 PM

was an mk indy r with a r1 bike engine in
you would best looking for an unfinnished mk or mnr, etc
and put a blade engine in
they are cheap to buy and enough power for a first kitcar or car even
obviously you have got to remember you cant just leave thse cars anywhere you cant drive them in all weathers
and you if you are young and full off confidence you will kill yourself - kitcars arnt your 1 litre corsa you can handbrake round a car park etc

i personally wouldnt recomend a seven esc car as a first car

have a look for a GTM Libra best of both worlds a kitcar so you could get cheap insurance
looks different fron ur 1 litre corsa and you could drive in all weathers

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 07:02 PM

thats not bad then, an r1 at £900!

And i know what you mean, I'm always wary of this, and don't want to do anything stupid, although i looked at these cars specifically because of the locos 7 i guess, that would be the ideal car, hence the reason for adding different engines to make it safer. Also we were thinking of driving this from March-November then putting it away until the following year etc. That would mean we should miss the majority of ice and snow, just the rain we would have to put up with. But we plan to fit a roof and make the inside as water proof as possible, so we can then if needs be, wear all weather motorbike suits and drive it in the rain.

Thanks

[Edited on 13/11/2012 by jawskk]

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 08:30 PM

Was just thinking about the kits, does anyone have a link that they can hit me up with, that a company sells Locos 7 kits?

Thanks
jaws

snapper - 13/11/12 at 09:04 PM

The season has ended but you realy realy need to go to a Kit car show, look at what's there, talk with the manufacturers and the owners
Research Research Research
I would buy chassis, wishbones and bodywork then a donor car and build with the donor engine and box, an Essex club member built with a 1.6 Pinto and got insured the 2.0L was refused insurance so check with insurance companies, use the specialists, Frank Pickles, Sureterm, Adrian Flux
Most Ford engines upto and including a Zetec fit rear wheel drive ford gearbox other engines don't without modification
MK, Stuart Taylor aka Aries, GBS and the Haynes Roadster google for more info

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 09:12 PM

Thanks alot for your response,

I was looking at the kit Mac1 as i think that looks the most sleek, but the engine is still a mystery to me. I'll take a look at the insurance company's and see what they say, but i don't want to hassle anyone too much as its just an idea at the moment. If im honest with you, i have almost a grand sitting in my current, to be spent on something that will benefit me when trying to get a job in Motorsport. I was looking at karting, but this has caught my eye. I've always looked at modding cars and playing with them, but they always seem to come out too pricey the ones I like. These were always something I looked at, but never really looked into properly, but now I have im glad! My plans were to decide what to do by January, and then get going, so by next November when I turn 17 and I past my test, I can then jump straight into this. But im always worried I will go to drive a car that I have spent months on and then get rejected insurance!

Thank you for the names, i will contact them and see what they can do

Cheers
Jaws

ReMan - 13/11/12 at 10:53 PM

Personally, and I wont justify it beyond whats already been said , I think you'd be mad to jump into a 7 at 17 and run it as your daily drive
Cool idea but youd be as comfy and safer on a motorbike iI reckon

Not to put you off your youthful exuberance

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 11:03 PM

can a couple of lads not have a little buzz in there life on the way to school and back? not even if I put a small engine in it? haha

Thanks
Mike

ReMan - 13/11/12 at 11:07 PM

A little buzz!
You've not been in one have you?

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 11:08 PM

haha, dad has a 3.0i z4 which gives me plenty of buzz, and been in some rather fast go karts in my 16 years, does that count? haha

ReMan - 13/11/12 at 11:14 PM

Nope

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 11:15 PM

hmm, surely? haha, what would you class then? and on a more serious note, what would you suggest? Why dont you think it would be suitable? haha

monck - 13/11/12 at 11:22 PM

Just my thoughts

In my opinion i would not get a 7 as a first car its very impractical and i would get some driving experience in a normal car first . A large number of new drivers have a smash in there first year and would be better if this was not in a 7 ...

Im now 21 bought a 7 with a 1.8 zetec at 19 still got it now with a 2.0 and changed to fuel injection love my car to bits but i could not drive it everyday but i attempted to use it as my daily driver this summer and had a few issues

1) Neighbuors did not appreciate me starting her up at 4am to go to work ..
2) didn't want to leave it anywhere so that was a problem
3) no fun in the rain i did have a windscreen and roof earlier in the year and it was far from enjoyable like driving round in a tent ?

It seems kit cars are appealing to young drivers now as everyday drivers because the insurance is cheaper my insurance on my 2.0 tiger cat with a declared 186hp is £700 fully comp for the year my 306 hdi 2.0 diesel road car is more and its SLOW but i love it ...

Not saying don't do it but think about the practicality of it



[Edited on 13/11/12 by monck]

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 11:25 PM

i get what you saying, and alot to think about. All those arnt a problem for me , apart from maybe the rain and weather one. Will have to look at this and speak with my brother. If i was to buy a kit car for my first car it would be the 7, so i guess theres alot to think about.

And i know what you mean, but its one of these, or i buy a motorbike, which both are very impractical! haha, im not a very practical guy when it comes to thinking that far ahead. I'll sleep on it then right a reply on what i thought tomorrow morning.

Cheers
Jawsk

[Edited on 13/11/2012 by jawskk]

jawskk - 13/11/12 at 11:35 PM

is it possible for people to maybe list possibility's that look similar but have a convertible roof?

and what car is this?





Thanks

[Edited on 13/11/2012 by jawskk]Car

[Edited on 13/11/2012 by jawskk]

[Edited on 13/11/2012 by jawskk]

ReMan - 13/11/12 at 11:39 PM

Recent thread might be interesting
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=174134&page=1

Fisher Fury

computid - 14/11/12 at 12:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jawskk
is it possible for people to maybe list possibility's that look similar but have a convertible roof?

and what car is this?





Thanks

[Edited on 13/11/2012 by jawskk]Car

[Edited on 13/11/2012 by jawskk]

[Edited on 13/11/2012 by jawskk]


The car is a Fisher Fury.

If it weren't for the new licensing rules after January then I'd recommend a motorbike.

Driving a RWD car in the wet, snow and ice isn't going to be fun. I really do think you'd be better off with a tin top. I know they're not exciting and they cost a fair lump to insure but they're endlessly more practical.

I've got two Minari Road Sport Mk2's, one of which I used to use as a daily driver and the other has been used as a daily when the tin top is out of action. They're ok, its great fun, but having to warm them up for 10 mins each morning, spending ages getting the screen to de-mist, drying whatever got wet when it rained the night before and leaked through the roof etc. all takes time, probably more then you'll want to spend day in day out.

In summer it can be great fun, but in winter its a real nightmare.

Just as an example, here are my two minari's:







and I've gotta say, this has happened more then once:




Don't expect whatever you buy to be hugely reliable, and after all kit cars always need fettling.

Your about 90 miles from me, if you'd like when the weathers a bit better and my interiors back together I'd be happy to meet you somewhere in the middle, take you out for a run in a minari to give you an idea of what a kit car is like. Comparing a seven or similar to a Z4 is like comparing a Learjet to a Eurofighter. They're not plush, but they are quick

TBH £1000 might buy you an ok project, but if I were you I'd save up another £1000 and buy something that isn't a seven that has a registration number. I drove a kit car as my first car, yeah they're good fun but they tend to be very unforgiving and if you do happen to crash one you probably won't fair too well.

BangedupTiger - 14/11/12 at 12:53 AM

Seeing as your interested in engineering, particularly motorsport. Surely the fun and experience of actually building a car is the main point.

Personally I'd buy a kit, that someone else has attempted to start, stoping due to either other commitments, financial constraints or just the realisation of the work involved.

Insurance wise, do some checks yourself. Mines £180 on a tiger with a pinto (@27yrs old). My mate only pays £250ish on his 1000bhp ultima, everyone will vary.

As for an everyday car, I wouldn't. But myself, like most others, have the luxury of a more sensible car for day to day.

snapper - 14/11/12 at 07:10 AM

First, talk a bit more with Eddy99 he has done exactly what you want to do
Second go for it, your only young once, make your dream and drive it

Me I realy, realy wished I'd started building cars decades before I started
Not as you vs as you but at 21 I had a Mk3 Triumph Spitfire, worked in London as a photographer and had a (one of my) girlfriend in Bradford, I would drive there and back in the Spit
Just do it
Once you start the help from here will be amazing and very few very young people can say " I built a car" if I interview someone for a job I look for that bit extra

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 08:15 AM

Thanks everyone for the great responses once again!

I fully understand what you mean by the weather and how unreliable it is etc. I'd prefer not getting to school, then finding out something has fallen out the bottom, but surely thats the good thing about it. When i say that im sure lots of you will then laugh and question it. But what i mean is, you've built it, so you know how to fix it! Unlike modern cars. We have a Citroen c3 2004 at our use for our first car if we want it, but thats just has unreliable, and when something goes wrong on it, its covered in plastic casing and is such a puzzle to even know where to start, and thats still a basic car. I'd like the fact I can tweek with it for extra power, and then when something does go wrong, i can pin point what it is immediately!

quote:
Originally posted by snapper

Second go for it, your only young once, make your dream and drive it



I liked this quote as it kinda says everything really. I always use this in everything i do, because i think that should be one of the main driving points ( see what i did there :L ) to get people to do what they want to do, because as i was told, and a huge example is my dad, is that he wants comfort now hes getting older, but i couldn't careless about comfort, i want speed :L

Also, that was my first original idea, was to buy a kit and build it, but i can't seem to find any links to manufacturers? is there such things? Also my other option was to buy a rolling chassis thats a complete mess, but i know was made to a standard but never finished, which i could then spend a year on repainting, new engine, new interior etc.

Thanks alot
Jaws

SCAR - 14/11/12 at 09:17 AM

As others have said buy an unfished kit. You could pay about half what has already been spent so its much cheaper than starting from scratch. Then take it apart and start again as you need to be sure of the build quality. If you start from scratch then almost certainly you will spend more than the completed cars resale value.
You dont need a 130 bhp bike engined car, even a good 1300 crossflow in a 7 type will probably be quicker and certainly more fun than any main stream car you can insure.
I dont want to judge you personally but as a new young driver if you try to use a bec to anywhere near its abilities (and its difficult to resist) you will crash it.
Great to hear you are interested in building something yourself, let us know how you get on, its pity you are not near us.
Good luck
Steve
Team SCAR

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[Edited on 14/11/12 by SCAR]

[Edited on 14/11/12 by SCAR]

D Beddows - 14/11/12 at 09:40 AM

As a parent of a 16 year old I suspect you're not going to listen to us old folk so go for it! There is a reason why people use these as fun cars only and you will be able to advise the next generation as to what that is

You will enjoy building it though, man mecanno is always fun!

blakep82 - 14/11/12 at 09:51 AM

don't underestimate the time it can take to build a car though, if you are 15 now, you would have been 5 when i started building mine... still building...

it can be a long, confusing, expensive process (mine has no instructions, and' i've had to make up a lot of parts myself. back axle cost me well over £1000 to put together too, but thats just mine) but if you want to do it, you need to get it done! do it!
thats the only way you'll decide for yourself if its the right thing for you, or if its too impractical

40inches - 14/11/12 at 10:16 AM

quote:
Originally posted by snapper
First, talk a bit more with Eddy99 he has done exactly what you want to do
Second go for it, your only young once, make your dream and drive it

Me I realy, realy wished I'd started building cars decades before I started
Not as you vs as you but at 21 I had a Mk3 Triumph Spitfire, worked in London as a photographer and had a (one of my) girlfriend in Bradford, I would drive there and back in the Spit
Just do it
Once you start the help from here will be amazing and very few very young people can say " I built a car" if I interview someone for a job I look for that bit extra

Everthing that snapper says. I was 49 when I built my first kit, now 15 years later I have just "finished" my 3rd and probably last
I wish I had started much earlier, so much I would like to do re kit cars "sob"
If I was starting now, I would buy a finished and IVA'd car, you can pick them up at the moment for the price of the kit (well, almost)
strip down to the chassis, and rebuild it my way.
Linky Do Da

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 10:48 AM

Thanks alot for the responses,

firstly, just because im 16 doesn't make me not listen, im willing to listen to all the advice your willing to give to me. I like the idea of buying a used car maybe a 7, then stripping in down and rebuilding it with new parts, that could be something i could do over next year and then drive it when i turn 17?

I dont plan to build a car to powerful that is uncontrollable, but id like to have a car with a bit more power than the ordinally saxo has. I like the bec idea as i think that the power and the noise would suite my personallity, although i would still be happy with a zetec 1.8 etc. But i will have to look more into the possibilitys and insurance.

Just thought id also add that there are 2 of us building this, me and my brother making our budget near 2grand..
I was also Wondering if anyone could tell me how the January laws of motorbikes would affect insurance?

thanks
Jaws

Ps. ,sorry for spelling mistakes, using my phone.

monck - 14/11/12 at 12:37 PM

Not being funny or hate put a downer on things but if your joint budget is 2k if that's on the road i think your going to struggle to get a 7 type car on the road for that money... Could be wrong but i cant see it ..
My first years insurance at 19 insurance was just over a grand on a 1.8 zetec tiger if theirs 2 of you (one as main one and a named) i would imagine it could be worse ...

Ryan

computid - 14/11/12 at 01:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
As a parent of a 16 year old I suspect you're not going to listen to us old folk


Speak for yourself

quote:
Originally posted by monck
Not being funny or hate put a downer on things but if your joint budget is 2k if that's on the road i think your going to struggle to get a 7 type car on the road for that money... Could be wrong but i cant see it ..
My first years insurance at 19 insurance was just over a grand on a 1.8 zetec tiger if theirs 2 of you (one as main one and a named) i would imagine it could be worse ...

Ryan


I would too imagine it would be very expensive to insure a 1.8 at 17. The only insurance company I know of that will do kit car insurance for 17 year olds (Footman James) won't insure you on an anything above a 1.6 (this is from personal experience with them) although they had no problems insuring me on my 1.8 MG B GT, its all a bit hit and miss.

I know they're not a hugely popular car for a lot of reasons, but have you considered a Dutton Phaeton? They're very cheap to buy, often have small engines and can be brilliant bargains. They can be kitted out with a soft-top and side screens and they can also be a lot of fun to drive (despite the huge flaws in the chassis design!).

There are lots of other kit manufacturers out there. One kit car that did come to mind last night when I was thinking about it was a quantum. If I were you I'd look at the quantum saloon, the coupe , the 2+2 or the H4. They're all pretty reasonable cars I think and they tend to be fiesta/escort based meaning that they're fairly easy to maintain and usually have small engines. You could probably pick up a very good condition on the road quantum for £2k and I doubt insurance would be that dear.

With regards to other kit car manufacturers there are quite a few in the UK alone: http://www.kitcarlinks.com/ukmakers.htm

You should probably visit a kit car show and have a look around the cars, most owners are happy to talk about their individual cars and let you have a sit in them etc. I think the next show is the Kent Kit Car Show on the 13/14th of April.

With regards to motorbikes, the new laws will make absolutely no difference to your BEC insurance prices whatsoever. What they will do however is stop you getting a full motorcycle licence for a number of years. This should cover all the bases: http://lightningpass.com/eu-3rd-licensing-directive-3dld


EDIT: Another thought for a cheap sports car, what about the MEV Exocet? Based on an MX5 and MEV recon that after you've sold off the useless MX5 bits it'll only cost £2k to build. http://www.mevltd.co.uk/exocet_price.htm

Not that you could easily fit one with a roof/windscreen/doors...

[Edited on 14/11/12 by computid]

deezee - 14/11/12 at 02:00 PM

I don't blame you for you're enthusiasm because everyone wants an awesome "Stand out from the crowd" car at 17. But thats why insurance companies charge thousands for people your age. I'll echo what everyone else says on here. Go on Pistonheads, find a kitcar, ring up an insurance company with the registration number and tell them its you're first car. See what the insurance cost for the two of you is going to be. Then once you have that, come back on here and we'll talk you to death about technical details. To be honest I doubt you'll get quoted.

D Beddows - 14/11/12 at 02:18 PM

For £2K on the road you're really going to struggle to get anything much more than a Dutton (maybe a Sylva Leader if you're lucky) and forget building your 1st 7 for that and getting it on the road unfortunately

If your not careful you might well end up with a large pile of expensive rusty car bits in a garage and no car to drive once you've past your test - I'd SERIOUSLY consider the usual hatchback route and THEN think about a kit car if you want to actually drive a car when you're 17.......

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 02:24 PM

hmm, so very mixed views from whether i will get insured or not, i guess the only way to find out would be to ask.

Just to comfirm that the £2000 would be a starting budget. Then every month we will get £50. Then our parents said when it comes to insuring they will also do what they did for our older brother which was paid for his first year or so, at £1400?

I like the look of the dutton? that looks more practical and still looks good, anymore info on this car?

Also what engine would you suggest then, bec or cec, 1.6 or 1.8,

This is now getting confusing :L

When you say the insurance will be high, are we talking as if for a tin top, or are we saying it will be high for a kit car,?

Cheers
jaws


@EDIT.... just to make sure we don't get mistaken. I currently have £2000 and so does my brother, that will be the starting point. Over the year we will then add any money we work around christmas for. so lets say £200... then 50 every month for 12 months... so thats £600? so its

2000
200
600
--------
2800 to get the kit built, and on the road, but no insurance... should of made that more clear :L

[Edited on 13/11/2012 by jawskk]

D Beddows - 14/11/12 at 03:45 PM

Don't underestimate the cost of kit cars - this maybe Locostbuilders but that doesn't mean this is low cost!!

There is a general rule of thumb that you can choose 2 out of these 3:

Quick To Build
Cheap (and £2800 is cheap believe me!)
Quality Build

worth thinking about........ I know quick to build and cheap probably sounds tempting BUT you'll spend more time rebodging things than you will driving it

[Edited on 14/11/12 by D Beddows]

BangedupTiger - 14/11/12 at 04:18 PM

I've got a tiger (one of the cheaper options) total cost is around £10,000 and still going.

Personally i'd always go CEC, but i'm looking at new power upgrades (400bhp plus). A bike engine just wont cut it. although a sequential box would be awesome.

for £2k, you end up with a bag of bolts, if looking at a finished car. Buy a 2nd hand kit.

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 04:20 PM

can i vote for cheap and quality build? i have plenty of time? and plenty of mates with workshops on hand

But I like the idea of the one about getting one thats more run down, and had a few miles. Stripping it down to the chassis, then practically rebuilding it? no welding unless there is major structural issues! then how much a lick of paint, new interior and some new rims and a 1.6 or a bike engine cost?

We like to think we are priddy good at finding bargains from Ebay, we use the idea of sitting and waiting :L for instance currently on ebay there's 4 brand new wolf face rims 18" in matt black and crome up for £256 which is cheaper than i've ever seen them we were going to do it like that, and do it all diy, for instance the interior panel, varnish wood? thats not expensive and i can do it at lunches in school

I was also looking at second hand, none of it was going to be brand new. even the engine we plan to put in will be second hand ripped out of a volvo or an old zetec.

Thanks
Mike

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 04:35 PM

quote:

Originally posted by computid:
Another thought for a cheap sports car, what about the MEV Exocet? Based on an MX5 and MEV recon that after you've sold off the useless MX5 bits it'll only cost £2k to build. http://www.mevltd.co.uk/exocet_price.htm


The MEV Exocet looks incredible! are we looking at the same thing? heres what im looking at....


http://www.mevltd.co.uk/exocet_gallery.htm


Is that what you mean is cheap, or am i looking a the more modern version of it? or completely looking at the wrong thing? any pictures or links to what you mean?

Thanks
Mike

monck - 14/11/12 at 04:38 PM

Hi Mike , if you really want to go for it id say the following

You may be able to get a run down car maybe something with a pinto xflow or something for under 3k

Zetec powered that are iva'd seem to make £4.5k+ it seems and BEC are even more

Just ring a insurance company i doubt they would quote you on a bec or a zetec at best id try a small crosflow or cvh

No point discussing options like zetec bec ect if you wont actually get cover

Just my opinion and how i would go about it

[Edited on 14/11/12 by monck]

SCAR - 14/11/12 at 04:44 PM

Or build a 7 from Ron Chapions book you can do it for £250 apparently
A word of advice, you would probably have to add at least 3k to any figures a kit supplier gives you for a budget build

deezee - 14/11/12 at 04:51 PM

Seriously, get off the PC and start ringing insurance companies before they close for business today. See if they'll insure a 17 year old with no experience and zero no claims. I think I'll take this thread seriously once you have an idea of insurance, a budget for mechanic tools, equipment and consumables. Otherwise its beginning to sound like the talk my 4 apprentices have at work but they ended up as; Mums Corsa, 1ltr Mini, driving ban and scooter.

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 04:52 PM

ok mate, but i don't really want to waste peoples time! what do i say? do i just call them and let them know im just interested?

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 05:02 PM

The Lady at Footman James said I have to be 25 to get a quote, going to try the company I looked at last night

EDIT@ just rang Adrian, or then refered me to Tiger.co.uk apparently there my best bet to contact them now.... wish me luck

[Edited on 13/11/2012 by jawskk]

owelly - 14/11/12 at 05:23 PM

If there is ever a time in your life that you will drive a kitcar as your daily driver, it's now!
As a youngster, I had a car but as SWMBO used it for work, I went everywhere on my motorbike. Because it's what I had to do, I didn't give it a second thought and I suspect you'd be the same. I now have a choice as to whether I go to work on a cold draughty motorbike, a cold noisy kit car, a big Transit Ambulance, or a nice quiet, warm, comfortable, Audi A4 Quattro.
You will be able to get insurance but it comes at a cost. When you're ringing companies for quotes, ask to increase the excess and reduce the annual mileage. You can always amend the mileage mid-cover as you get close to your limit. As I said previously, you get a lot more car for your money of you stay away from a se7eneque car. Almost any kitcar you can get your mittens on will have a better power to weight ration than your average 1.1 Saxo.
Have a look here http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/ and find something with a roof. Don't discount a Mini/Metro based car or something a bit left-field. A roof will make all the difference to how often you want to use it!!
Look at GTM, Dutton, Quantum (older ones), etc.

computid - 14/11/12 at 05:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jawskk

The MEV Exocet looks incredible! are we looking at the same thing? heres what im looking at....


http://www.mevltd.co.uk/exocet_gallery.htm


Is that what you mean is cheap, or am i looking a the more modern version of it? or completely looking at the wrong thing? any pictures or links to what you mean?


Thats the one. They're pretty cool but really really impractical for winter.

quote:
Originally posted by SCAR
Or build a 7 from Ron Chapions book you can do it for £250 apparently


Possibly in the early 90's, but certainly not now. The materials for a chassis will set you back more then that I should think. An IVA alone is £450 assuming you don't fail.

quote:
Originally posted by SCAR
A word of advice, you would probably have to add at least 3k to any figures a kit supplier gives you for a budget build


Usually true, but when it comes down to the exocet if you do it on a real budget and get a decent donor that doesn't need any work on the engine etc. then you'd probably be able to manage it in budget. You'd still have to stick the £450 IVA fee on top but I'm not 100% sure that the exocet needs an IVA, wasn't that one of its major selling points?

quote:
Originally posted by jawskk
ok mate, but i don't really want to waste peoples time! what do i say? do i just call them and let them know im just interested?


Phone up a kit car insurer and ask them for a quote on the car. Give them yours and the cars details but make it so you 17 and just passed your test. They'll either give you a quote or tell you they can't quote you, if they give you a quote then you might buy insurance from them so your not wasting their time.

Now, onto the Dutton Phaeton. It was designed and marketed by Tim Dutton, whilst I personally have nothing against Tim Dutton, he does have a somewhat questionable track record. Some of his designs weren't exactly brilliant and his latest amphicars have a rather tarnished reputation. The main reason I'm always a bit 50/50 on the phaeton is the chassis. Heres a picture of a dutton chassis:



Heres a picture of a locost chassis:




Spot any major differences? Namely that the Dutton Chassis looks like its been made out of scrap box section welded together a really strange way. I really wouldn't want to see what a Dutton chassis looks like after a smash, I think the locost would fair better (but its still not brilliant). Then again, I guess you don't buy a kit car for its NCAP safety rating!

One other word of warning, if your looking for a kit car on ebay make sure you go and view it first. Buying blind is never a good idea. When you do go to look at one feel free to make an offer on it, you'll probably get it for lower then you would in an auction.

Make sure you look in the kit car magazines, classified ad websites, owners clubs etc. there are often cars for sale there.

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 05:26 PM

The first 2 sentences are so true :L im thinking at this age that the rain or the cold just doesn't bother me, but the later i leave it, the more it will! I will take a look at the link shortly,

Also i've run into a deadend, i tryed to use the tiger.co.uk site but it doesn't recognise any reg i put in, nor does it have the make of the car. This is obviously causing a problem! anyone used this company?

Thanks
Mike

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 05:34 PM

Thanks alot computid!

Great response, thats certainly made me look at those pictures a few times :L , Currently im actually swaying towards the MEV as that looks great! there's always mx5's going cheap online, which i'd obviously check out, but looks like a bargain and can get a few bob for the spares

Still struggling with the insurance side, got told they don't insure under 25's, so rang another company who refered me to another, who then told me to use the tiger.co.uk website, but it won't recognise any kit car registration's ? anything else i should do?

The company's so far are...

Footman James - no longer insure under 25's on kit cars
Adrian Flux - Refereed me to a " better company "
" Better company " - refereed me to tiger.co.uk
Tiger.co.uk - Won't recognise the reg plates

Anyone want to add the the chain or list of company's that might?

Cheers
Jaws

computid - 14/11/12 at 05:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jawskk
The first 2 sentences are so true :L im thinking at this age that the rain or the cold just doesn't bother me, but the later i leave it, the more it will! I will take a look at the link shortly,

Also i've run into a deadend, i tryed to use the tiger.co.uk site but it doesn't recognise any reg i put in, nor does it have the make of the car. This is obviously causing a problem! anyone used this company?

Thanks
Mike


Almost no kit car companies will quote online. You'll have to phone them.

Be warned that last time I used tiger they were crap, didn't get me any quotes and spammed by email adress.

monck - 14/11/12 at 05:38 PM

Dont see why adrian flux would refure you to anyone else i have been covered by them on my 7 since 19

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 05:41 PM

I wasn't sure either? hmm will look at others,

anyone know sureterm? they seem keen on kit cars? or is there any insurance company's on here? Any members i could drop a pm to?

Thanks

computid - 14/11/12 at 05:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by monck
Dont see why adrian flux would refure you to anyone else i have been covered by them on my 7 since 19


Flux refused to quote me at 17 and 18 on both classics and kit cars.

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 05:52 PM

any chance i can have a list of insurance company's people did get insured through at 18- 19 etc. so i can give them a call instead?

Thanks

tims31 - 14/11/12 at 05:56 PM

Hey jawskk,

If your interested I'm in the process of building a Fisher Fury at the moment and live in Spalding too, so you can pop round and have a look at that if you like. I'm only around at weekends at the moment but drop me a U2u and see when I'm about. Still at the paneling stage at the moment but should give you the idea. You can see the link to my build site below.

Also, if you need any info on build your own chassis and engine fits then big_wasa on here is building his own and is a Zetec guru.

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 06:00 PM

Hi,

Thanks for the offer! and your so close will see when im free, then drop you a pm

Thank you
Mike

Hellfire - 14/11/12 at 06:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jawskk
any chance i can have a list of insurance company's people did get insured through at 18- 19 etc. so i can give them a call instead?

Thanks


Here's a link to a previous thread regarding a list of kitcar insurers for your info.

Phil

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 06:23 PM

thank you will take a look at this.

Also looking at the Mev Exocet, thats certainly almost guaranteed thats what I want to build! although some say its cheap, and others say it isn't? anyone have one of these that they don't mind sharing there story's?

Thanks
Mike

eddie99 - 14/11/12 at 06:52 PM

Try MSM Insurance.

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 07:30 PM

Just to comfirm, and hopefully get a little list, which is the best for insurance, or you would recommended for the least project cost?

locost 7 with zetec 1600/1800 or zx9r or similar bike engine
Mac#1 with zetec 1600/1800 or zx9r or similar bike engine
Mev Exocet with MX5 engine?


The locost 7 i would aim to buy used and run down, maybe even a rolling chassis, then give it new rims, new paint and interior and a new engine?

Sorry that I've asked this so much! i just want to confirm this, before i ring more company's tomorrow ?

Thanks
Mike

A1 - 14/11/12 at 08:03 PM

I got insurance at 18 with an r1 engined mk, use it all year round and its the cats tits. just wrap up and forget about staying dry.
best plan is to get a kitcar magazine and phone every insurer in it, youll get something... i was paying about 2500 my first year.
if you get a new kit and do it yourself you know the car inside out, which is only a good thing and wont be too hard if your doing engineering.
from scratch expect to pay about 10 grand on the road for a bike engined mk.

msm are good, but they use nig, who are appalling when you need them, so dont crash.

[Edited on 14/11/12 by A1]

monck - 14/11/12 at 08:08 PM

A1 when where you 18 out of intrest as i could not get cover at 19 for a bec and that was 2 years ago just wondering if it was longer ago than that and things have tightend up ...

Sorry to go of subject


[Edited on 14/11/12 by monck]

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 08:09 PM

Thanks for the feed back,

thats not bad then, will give them a call tomorrow and see what they will do for Zetec and the motorbike engines etc. Although i do like the sound of the R1 in the MK, although £2500 is a little high, was hoping for under £2000. Will have to see if maybe a zx9r would be cheaper, or even a zx6r I've seen are still powerful?

Also, thank you for saying about the cold! thats exactly what i plan to do! when the weather gets harsh, I'll hit the main roads for safety reasons ( gritting etc.)

Thanks
Jaws


PS: thats a very good point! Insurance is forever changing, when did you get the insurance?

jawskk - 14/11/12 at 11:20 PM

The more i look, the more good looking kits i stumble across!, whats the difference between the 7 and the zero?

Also anyone know of any build diary's with pictures that are complete i can view?

Thanks
Mike

beaver34 - 15/11/12 at 07:57 AM

i had a my kit car at 21 first rwd car and had 350 bhp per ton and im still alive, its now got nearly 600 bhyp per ton

so if your not stupid you will survive.

one thing you need to understand is you dont need a big engine to go fast, a saxo vtr has say 100bhp and weights 1 ton

to be as fast in a 500kg kit car you need 50bhp so fitting a 1.4 or a 1.3 that is 75bhp say is going to make a car that is sub 7 seconds to 60 so in reality will be faster than most things out there

i woudl look at fitting a small cheap engine and there cheaper to run

i used HIC to insure mine at 21, now use 2 gether insurance

hope this helps

jawskk - 15/11/12 at 08:11 AM

Thank you,

That did help indeed! i was looking at the zetec 1600 or even a citroen 1.4? i can get insured on a 1.4 tin top for £1400, and that weighs loads! I was wondering if i could actually do this? If so that will be what i will do! then slowly maybe upgrade the power etc.

And thanks, will look at them and give them a call
Cheers
Mike

D Beddows - 15/11/12 at 09:09 AM

1300 xflow that's what you want - not as expensive as the 1600's, will have plenty of power in a lightweight car for a new driver AND you can learn how to build engines as it's the most novice friendly engine there is to rebuild. Oh and finding a rwd gearbox that it fits to will be easy

phelpsa - 15/11/12 at 09:26 AM

As positive as I would like to be, as I was in your position a number of years ago, don't be fooled into thinking it will be a quick job. Unless you spend £20k on a Caterham or Westfield kit, you'll be looking at a couple of years minimum to build something road legal as you will be learning as you go along. It's not an age thing really, just a lock of experience that means everything takes 2-3 times longer than expected the first time round.

If you haven't bought an old car and fiddled around with it first then give that a go first would be my advice, get the experience, you'll enjoy building a kit car much more afterwards.

[Edited on 15-11-12 by phelpsa]

Norfolkluegojnr - 15/11/12 at 09:51 AM

Another curve ball - classic mini?

Talking from experience, you get the same 'seat of pants' driving thrill, very cheap to maintain and ensure, with lots of potential for fettling and tuning.

My 1275 turbo produces around 130bhp - more than enough to scare you. My insurance is less than my Striker was, and replacing parts etc when they fail i noticeably cheaper.

rover mini 1380

This one would feel pretty lively to a new driver (no offence) and still be fairly safe whilst you learn your craft.

jawskk - 15/11/12 at 11:11 AM

Thanks for the advice, people keep mentioning the crossfire so I will take a look at that this evening and see what I discover, im looking at still sticking with the kit car and getting a run down car and re building it. That was my first aim from the start, but I know what you are all saying. So many choices and so many different people with different ideas and views on things. Alot to think about !

mcerd1 - 15/11/12 at 11:53 AM

one thing no one has mentioned about insurance is that the best deals are normally when you insure it as a second car.
every insurance company is different, but I've found it makes a big difference to the quotes you get...

so I'd vote for getting the cheapest little hatchback you can find and running that while you build the locost - besides you'll need something to go and pickup all the bits for the locost

don't underestimate the amount of fun you can have in a FWD hatch with next to no power, but also don't overestimate how well they grip/brake (see if you can guess how I found that one out ) 3 years driving a 21 year old fiesta taught me all I need to know about controling understeer

quote:
Originally posted by jawskkpeople keep mentioning the crossfire so I will take a look at that this evening and see what I discover
do you mean the crossflow ? (aka: xflow)

its the standard engine from a 1970's ford escort (among other things), its a simple solid little engine with lots of tuning options - the 1.3 should be more than enough

D Beddows - 15/11/12 at 12:41 PM

Sorry but I really think getting a car/any car to drive when you've past your test should be your biggest priority not your dream car........ dream cars are ok but I remember when I passed my test I just wanted my own car to drive no matter what it was tbh. I would have been sooooo frustrated if I'd spent enough money to buy a drivable car on kit car bits that were a good year away from being an actual drivable and on the road vehicle

I do understand and admire your enthusiasm but don't underestimate how long and how much money this is going to take. Do build a kit car, it's an amazing thing to do but take a couple of sensible pills before you dive in head first