MikeRJ
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| posted on 24/7/11 at 10:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DRC INDY 7
So if it was you're daughter or son that had died through drug/alcohol related problems you would be on here saying what a waste of space and
that the person deserved to die ...........................
Clearly not, but how many LCB members have offspring or brothers and sisters that have achieved international notoriety through their alcohol and drug
habit?
quote:
Originally posted by DRC INDY 7
I do not think so. so why all the heartless coments about a person you only know through the media?
I understand you point of view, but don't you think it would be hypocritical to only make positive comments about someone after their death
irrespective of how you regarded them in life?
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VanHaydn
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 02:26 AM |
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one less
one less junkie oxygen thief....
we get given the gift of life and all junkies lack self respect or are thankfull for the life we are given
more oxygen for the people who want and need it...
Talented junkies.BLA BLA BLA!!!....
what good is the talent 6 foot under...
a junkie is not a person...a junkie used to be a person....now its a empty shell full of chemicals..useless to society and full of crap!
I speak from 1st hand experience...My family has been destroyed by 2 "REAL" junkies and they have no feking clue the damage they have
caused to our family structure....one is a "CRACK" junkie the other is a "KET and PILL" and the other whatever he can chuck up
his nose or down his usless gullet....
so famous or not a junkie is a junkie who has no regard for their loved ones...what makes is so painfull is that I loved them and they dont care what
pain thay have caused ...so better for them to be DEAD really best for everyone concerned...Honestly wish mine would overdose so we can get on with
our lives..
Sad But True!
[Edited on 25/7/11 by VanHaydn]
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kj
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 08:36 AM |
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Yes she had problems with drink and drugs but that does not give anyone who does not know her or anyone else with problems to judge them as a lot of
people have mental health problems which leads to this happening.
People don't like to admit to the problem as people who don't know them judge them or don't accept them and they struggle to a point
of no return.
A lot of people go through rough times and don't come back, it can be a dark time.
Give the lass and her family some respect.
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Jasper
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 09:14 AM |
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I'm also rather shocked by LCB views on here. Alcohol and drug addiction are classed by the WHO as an illness, no different from other mental
illnesses. Most people addicted to drugs and alcohol have a different brain make-up to the rest of us that makes them very succeptable to addictions
of one sort or another.
Most street junkies and alcoholics have been shown to have significant mental illness - so be careful who you go judging. Just because someone is rich
and famous doesn't have any bearing on their mental state.
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 11:45 AM |
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quote:
Alcohol and drug addiction are classed by the WHO as an illness, no different from other mental illnesses
Difference is that most of us would disagree with that term IMHO. It is not ( at least initially) an Illness. IT IS A WEAKNESS.
A weakness of spirit OR personallity OR lack of courage/pride to JUST SAY NO.
It's well enough documented what can and does occur when you do drugs etc. THE person makes a choice NOT the familly therefore my respect is
with the Familly. As for the junkies who can turn themselves around whether with or without familly help then good on them. BUT for self destructors
who have time/money and familly TRYING to help but ignoring them then I'm afraid I have no respect for them FFS they have no respect for
themselves.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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scootz
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 12:43 PM |
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I had to deal with junkies on a professional basis for the best part of 20 years. I've also done 'cold-turkey' myself, so I feel
reasonably qualified to make comment on the whole addiction-debate.
I'd been taking opiod based medications long-term for back pain and it was becoming apparent that I'd become addicted to them. I wanted
the pills because I WANTED THE PILLS! The back-pain had become a secondary reason for taking them!
I just couldn't live my life as a zombie any more. It was awful! Sure, the back-pain was numbed when taking the tablets, but my every waking
moment was like living in a cotton-wool bubble and the months were just drifting by.
I woke up one day and thought enough's enough! I took all the Oxycodone, etc. that I had to the chemist and handed it back in. The pharmacist
was worried about me doing this and told me to go and see the doc. But I have a 'compulsive' personality and knew I'd have
struggled with weaning myself off them, so cold-turkey it was!
I can only describe it as a fortnight of being really hungover or like a bad flu (not that you get good flu!). Head-ache, stomach-ache, shivers,
cramps, fevers, weird dreams. It wasn't nice, but it's entirely do-able IF YOU WANT TO!
You could argue that it was easier for me to come off it than it would be for a stereotypical junkie. I have a nice house, family who love me and the
bestest dog in the whole-wide-world  I'd argue against that by saying that I knew a world of chronic pain was lying ahead of me... and
probably until the day I die (think the worst toothache you've ever had... now apply that to your lower back, buttocks, legs and feet 24/7 and
you've got it!). Utterly miserable!
So what's the point of my rambling... hmmm, not sure myself! Oh yeah, it was... if I can do it, then anyone can do it!
PS - The bestest dog in the whole-wide-world...
[Edited on 25/7/11 by scootz]
It's Evolution Baby!
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Jasper
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 01:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
quote:
Alcohol and drug addiction are classed by the WHO as an illness, no different from other mental illnesses
Difference is that most of us would disagree with that term IMHO. It is not ( at least initially) an Illness. IT IS A WEAKNESS.
A weakness of spirit OR personallity OR lack of courage/pride to JUST SAY NO.
It's well enough documented what can and does occur when you do drugs etc. THE person makes a choice NOT the familly therefore my respect is
with the Familly. As for the junkies who can turn themselves around whether with or without familly help then good on them. BUT for self destructors
who have time/money and familly TRYING to help but ignoring them then I'm afraid I have no respect for them FFS they have no respect for
themselves.
That whole statement just shows a HUGE lack of understand of addiction and is a stereotypical 'Sun Reader' view. Sad really, and even
sadder to know that so many people think that way and agree with your standpoint. Luckily we have experts who really understand what is going on in
the brain of people suffering from these conditions.
I would be interested to hear all your views if she had die as a result of only drinking alcohol, or from anorexia, or from chronic depression, or
from schizophrenia or from any other mental illness.
Maybe go and speak with someone who works with people trying to recover from this illness. Two of my closest mates work as managers for Brightons
largest drug and alcohol rehab group, both are recovering alcoholics/drug addicts. They deal with people like this on a daily basis and certainly hold
very different views.
And to say these people are weak is a comlete joke. I have a very close family member who has been sober now for 30+years and during this time I have
met very many people 'in recovery'. The one thing that stands out with a lot of these people is their strength of character, I would
certainly not describe them as weak.
You may not know that alcohol abuse is the third biggest killer in the UK:
'An alcohol fact sheet published by the Institute of Alcohol Studies (IAS) reports that in developed countries, alcohol is the third leading
cause of disease and injury, alcohol causing nearly 10 percent of all ill health and premature deaths in Europe. This is ahead of obesity, diabetes
and asthma and second only to smoking and blood pressure conditions.
In addition to the large-scale problems of intoxication, addiction and a multitude of alcohol related social problems, alcohol on a worldwide level
causes an estimated 20 – 30 percent of cancer of the oesophagus, liver cancer, cirrhosis of the liver, epilepsy, homicide / murder and motor vehicle
accidents.'
Just to class all these people as weak strikes me as rather symplistic.
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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ashg
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 02:45 PM |
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sadly it was inevitable. her singing was ok but nothing earth shattering. what i find really sad is that she was better known for her problems with
substance abuse than for her singing.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 02:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
That whole statement just shows a HUGE lack of understand of addiction and is a stereotypical 'Sun Reader' view. Sad really, and even
sadder to know that so many people think that way and agree with your standpoint. Luckily we have experts who really understand what is going on in
the brain of people suffering from these conditions.
I would be interested to hear all your views if she had die as a result of only drinking alcohol, or from anorexia, or from chronic depression, or
from schizophrenia or from any other mental illness.
Are you suggesting that only people that have a mental illness to start with become drug addicts?
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Jasper
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 02:58 PM |
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That will depend on your definition of a mental illness. Do you think it's normal behaviour for a person to take so many drugs/alcohol they kill
themselves? They don't do it for fun that's for sure.
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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Macbeast
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 04:36 PM |
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It seems that everybody who demonstrates compulsive behaviour - be it drugs, alcohol, food, sex, cutting,whatever - has low self esteem and
can't deal with their feelings. The cause may be environmental ( bad parenting ) or genetic ( there is evidence to show that addictive behaviour
runs in families ). The drug of choice ( includes behaviours ) lets them suppress their feelings: problems get swept under the carpet but they
don't go away and they get worse.
The most successful treatment centres deal with addiction as an illness, just like diabetes - treatable, survivable but never curable. They get the
sufferer (and by God do they suffer ) clean and sober then help them discover what caused the lack of self esteem and why they hide from their
feelings.
Are addicts weak ? No more than the rest of the population. But addicts who try to conquer their compulsion by force of will and strength of mind (
white-knuckling it ) without dealing with their fundamental problems very often relapse.
As to whether addicts suffer from a mental illness, one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result
[Edited on 25/7/11 by Macbeast]
I'm addicted to brake fluid, but I can stop anytime.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 04:48 PM |
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Given I come from what the tabloids once labelled the drug capital of Scotland I still disagree with you Jasper.
They are WEAK not because they are now addicts they are WEAK because THEY and THEY alone were not strong enough to say no the first time
drugs/alchohol ( and yes I like a drink as much as the next man) were offered to them.
I agree they may have been mentally at a low point when they accepted the drugs, and I would imagine ( given the speed with which many become hooked)
it MUST be a fantastic experience/feeling to make you become addicted so quickly.
I work with many people who have familly with this problem ( again I am sympathetic to the familly ) many of them also give of their free time to help
the support groups ( all credit to them ).
I suppose untill it happens close to home then none of us will truly understand how we would actually behave OR react. Untill that point all we have
are opinions. You make not like or agree with our opinions but we are entitled to them.
In truth she, as many, were heading down the self destruct route. But how many young ones looked to her as a role model?? That is the worry IMHO
We have created the celebrity beast that young ones look up to/aspire to. Many of them are a bad influence on the young generation.
OH and well done Scootz and his puppy dog.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Macbeast
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 04:56 PM |
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But Omega, you have destroyed your own argument. Nobody knows whether they will become an addict UNTIL they have taken that first drink or drug. Some
go go on to become addicted, some don't. But if it's weak simply to take the first drink, not knowing what will happen, then we are ALL
weak.
I'm addicted to brake fluid, but I can stop anytime.
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 05:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
They are WEAK
Possibly you are weak? you don't actually know her or her situation only by what you have seen and read. Some may class you as weak for not
being able to see somones situation and being able to empathise and assist? If you believe that you have not made bad decisions in life, then you are
mistaken, everybody does. Just some have bigger consequences than others.
Mark
Tiger Avon
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DRC INDY 7
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 05:13 PM |
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Like I said it is still someone's daughter or son and the last thing there family needs to hear or see is self centered people saying there are
junkies so deserve to die
So a different take on this some go out in there kitcars give it too much beans crash and then die do you then come on here and say ha ha idiot
deserved to die
speeding
The answer is no you don't
https://www.facebook.com/groups/462610273778799/
Puddle Dodgers Club
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 06:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
They are WEAK not because they are now addicts they are WEAK because THEY and THEY alone were not strong enough to say no the first time
drugs/alchohol ( and yes I like a drink as much as the next man) were offered to them.
Doesn't this mean you're also weak because you didn't say no when someone offered you a pint?
Hey want one of these?
What is is?
It's D, makes you feel AWESOME
Yeah sure.
The next morning:
Oh man I feel like crap
Yeah that's the D getting out of your system, have another
Bam, addicted. I've heard of a lot of heroin addicts that are taking it just to stave off the effects of the comedown (i.e. to feel normal)
Hair of the dog anyone?
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JoelP
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 06:40 PM |
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A friend was on crack for a few years. Took his dad dying to make him stop. He sold coke so always had lots to sniff, then cracked it himself
'for a laugh'. Not your typical baghead, though you could see the effect it had on his head. Not seen him in a while now but i think you
have to know one before you appreciate that life is a long and winding road and some people end up in dodgy places with no easy way back.
[Edited on 25/7/11 by JoelP]
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 06:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DRC INDY 7
Like I said it is still someone's daughter or son and the last thing there family needs to hear or see is self centered people saying there are
junkies so deserve to die
Who said she deserved to die?? Many have simply said they have no sympathy for her (but the same group have also said they have sympathy for her
family / friends) which is hardly saying she deserved to die really is it!!! the fact that she continued to live the way she did - irrespective of how
much people tried to help her (family, record company etc) is down to her!! As far as i'm concerned, addicts who want to stop have to have the
will to do it. Clearly, she didnt!!
I'll reiterate - i have no sympathy for her. I do for the family but not for her - plain and simple. To try using the argument that its
someone's son or daughter for having no sympathy for HER is therefore pointless. Osama Bin Laden had a mother and father - maybe you don't
want us to say we have no sympathy for him either??
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blakep82
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 07:04 PM |
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don't know if 'the scheme' was ever on in england, showed a load of people from a pretty grim housing estate in scotland, this one
guy in particular was on heroin, i'd say fell in with the wrong crowd, but the whole estate practically ran on it. he was addicted, and he hated
himself for it. he wanted off it, tried going cold turkey, lasted a few weeks, but ended up back on it. can't explain the whole show, but it
certainly changed my opinion on addicts after watching him. properly felt sorry for him. he hated what it was doing to him, and his family, but as
with any addiction, its not just as easy as 'stop doing it'
as said above, it addictive because they take it to keep the effects of the comedown away, but the addicition starts apparently, because the first
time you take it, its like te most awesome feeling ever, and you spend the rest of the time trying to get the same feeling, which never quite happens.
i for one find it very sad. she didn't wake up every morning thinking 'i'm going to take as much drink and drugs as i can, coz i
want to and to f*ck with what everyone thinks of me', in most cases is not a choice, and anyone who thinks it is doesn't really understand
addictions as far as i'm concerned. IF she killed herself on purpose, it was probably because she didn't want to hurt her family anymore,
and it was the only way she could do it. she clearly had a very troubled mind
[Edited on 25/7/11 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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DRC INDY 7
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 07:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
quote:
Originally posted by DRC INDY 7
Like I said it is still someone's daughter or son and the last thing there family needs to hear or see is self centered people saying there are
junkies so deserve to die
Who said she deserved to die?? Many have simply said they have no sympathy for her (but the same group have also said they have sympathy for her
family / friends) which is hardly saying she deserved to die really is it!!! the fact that she continued to live the way she did - irrespective of how
much people tried to help her (family, record company etc) is down to her!! As far as i'm concerned, addicts who want to stop have to have the
will to do it. Clearly, she didnt!!
I'll reiterate - i have no sympathy for her. I do for the family but not for her - plain and simple. To try using the argument that its
someone's son or daughter for having no sympathy for HER is therefore pointless. Osama Bin Laden had a mother and father - maybe you don't
want us to say we have no sympathy for him either??
What has bin laden got to do with it he murdered people
amy winehouse died untill the post mortem nobody now's what she died of
Try to remember that little fact before you look a totall idiot
https://www.facebook.com/groups/462610273778799/
Puddle Dodgers Club
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 07:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DRC INDY 7
quote:
Originally posted by DRC INDY 7
Like I said it is still someone's daughter or son and the last thing there family needs to hear or see is self centered people saying there are
junkies so deserve to die
Try to remember that little fact before you look a totall idiot
How about YOU point us all to the quote where someone said that "junkies deserve to die" before YOU look like an idiot.
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DRC INDY 7
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 07:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by lewis
If drug related then serves her right,no one made her take drugs,she was a junky
Here you go this pretty much says it
https://www.facebook.com/groups/462610273778799/
Puddle Dodgers Club
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lewis
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 08:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DRC INDY 7
quote:
Originally posted by lewis
If drug related then serves her right,no one made her take drugs,she was a junky
Here you go this pretty much says it
Don't twist my words,if I put a gun in my mouth and pulled the trigger it would serve me right, NOT that I deserved to die, very different
things!
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DRC INDY 7
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 08:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by lewis
quote:
Originally posted by DRC INDY 7
quote:
Originally posted by lewis
If drug related then serves her right,no one made her take drugs,she was a junky
Here you go this pretty much says it
Don't twist my words,if I put a gun in my mouth and pulled the trigger it would serve me right, NOT that I deserved to die, very different
things!
not really you have pretty much said what you mean
another somebody smokes or drinks and gets cancer and dies as a result is that not the same as what you are saying above would that serve them right
no its what people choose to do there life
If nothing good can be said and im not saying something good has to be said just for the sake of it then say nowt
I have lost freinds and family through many different senarios and not once did i think it served them right they should not have done it
[Edited on 7/25/2011 by DRC INDY 7]
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Puddle Dodgers Club
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 25/7/11 at 09:45 PM |
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Calm down!
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