Mr C
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| posted on 20/9/14 at 03:30 PM |
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What is there to understand?? ffs. Just because Youthink people don't get it there's no need to insult their intelligence.
I've no doubt Andy's success owes as much as his engineering expertise as his business acumen and when people like him challenge the
comments that have been posted here, then anyone with any insight and sense would rethink their position on the issue.
The botton line is the steering failed, there's an issue with the joint, be mindful of it when it comes to your own car, end of. there is
nothing else to understand. The OP didn't ask for a detailed post mortem or engineers report or the opinions from the few small minded, arrogant
and egotistical locost keyboard warriors.
This forum could be such a great place if it wasn't for the few. I'm not an engineer, though an enthusiastice amateur, and have tried
previously to post up for advice etc and have got the exact response as in this thread has so now go elsewhere, where posters are more respectful,
sticking to the subject/question, enquiring until the issue is fully understood and offering feedback and advice constructively. Not too difficult in
my book but a struggle for some.
Saddened by the whole attitude thing here. No doubt I'll be flamed insulted etc for the above, feel free, and show yourselves in your true
light. Locost isn't a place I want to be at anymore with BT and his Fanbois, so I'm moving on and be sticking with the crew at SKCC(for a
good laugh) and the midlana forum for my build (for decent technical support)
Girl walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, so the barman gave her one
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steve m
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| posted on 20/9/14 at 04:48 PM |
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Hi all
So with the OP advice I have just checked my steering UJ (burtons ford part)
I do hope the following makes sense!
The lower portion of the UJ, that goes onto the escort rack DOES mean that with the bolt inserted, and even with out a nut can not be pulled way from
the rack , so that end is fine!
The upper female splined hole, also (on mine) would do the same, so again that is fine
However my steering column that I installed 15 years ago, does not have a cut out for the bolt to locate into, mine just has
a long flat 20mm along the shaft, and if not fitted properly the bolt will not go in so the flat has to be located were the bolt will go through
In my application this is fine, as I don't have a moveable steering wheel, nor a paddle gearchange, plus the only way to take the steering
column out would be to remove the scuttle or the steering rack, as all of it is a very tight fit
I do not wish to be embroiled in all the tittle tattle of who is right or who is a knob etc, but the OP has posted what he feels a safety issue with a
certain part, and thankfully for us, the resulting crash could of been a lot worse
I do hope that some of our members check the linkage, as steering and brakes are the two items that without, the result will not be nice
steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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Andy B
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| posted on 21/9/14 at 08:09 AM |
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Hmmmmm - don't think I have ever got sucked into a thread on here quite like this before so here's a parting shot re " I find it
incredible"
Let's apply a simple quality control assessment to the Universal joint shall we?
When installing a uj into a set of yokes shall we retain it by -
A installing a circlip into a machined groove
B drilling and tapping a hole for a retaining bolt to be located in
C neatly dot punch a deliberate deformity to retain it
D thrash the poo out of it repeatedly with some blunt instrument because the sweat shop you work in doesn't supply hammers or the training to
let you know it needs doing only once
Stick with me - now moving on there is a necessity to drill off the clamp bolt hole should we
A build a jig and then machine off the clamp hole accurately time and time again on a dedicated drilling rig
B build a jig and allow our staff to drill off by hand
C stuff the jig show them roughly where it goes and let them dill it off as near as damn it ( centre punching is probably not an option as matey boy
is using the blunt instrument to install the uj's)
Finally we need to cut 36 splines accurately on a 9/16 base circle - do we
A cast our yokes from a certified appropriate grade of steel and then invest in some proper hard tooling that will broach the required splines albeit
the tooling will wear and need replacing regularly to allow for wear and run out and to allow us to maintain our quality standard
B cast our yokes from the softest possible shite that will allow our staff to broach the splines using a wobbled tool repeatedly for the next century
or at least until there are no splines left on the tool, this has the added benefit of making drilling the clamp bolt hole with our blunt bit easier
too
Moving on if you are happy to go ahead installing said joint into an area as safety critical as steering and adding to this your ability to asses
(without even having the joint in front of you ) that it could only fail as a result of incorrect installation or a lack of clamp force, then be my
guest, the good news is I packed in standing at the side of roads cutting people out of their carnage years ago so at least I won't have to
witness the potential mess
[Edited on 21/9/14 by Andy B]
[Edited on 21/9/14 by Andy B]
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bigfoot4616
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| posted on 21/9/14 at 10:41 AM |
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have to agree about the poor quality of some of these joints.
when i changed to a sierra column i went for the easy option for the lower column and bought one with splines both ends. soon gave up with it though
as the lower joint no matter how hard i tried tightening it there was still play in the splines(there was plenty of thread on the bolt). i also tried
two upper joints(sierra to escort spline) and both where badly fitting to the triangle part and had play in the joint itself.
a quick search showed it was a common problem so i ended up getting my original lower column modified to fit the sierra upper.
as andy mentions further up, the price of these joints suggests quality wont be that good.
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Doctor Derek Doctors
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| posted on 29/10/14 at 05:05 PM |
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I have just noticed (while looking for something else) that the cast steering UJ's dont appear to be for sale from Rally Design anymore. Could
there be a known problem with the quality now? Or am I just reading far to much into this.
Steering section on RD:
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/index.php?cPath=1375_1594_1813
Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~£5k.
Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.
Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.
www.t89.co.uk
www.racecarwings.co.uk
callan@t89.co.uk
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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coozer
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| posted on 29/10/14 at 06:36 PM |
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As someone who used to be an engineer on steering systems for the likes of Ford, Jaguar, Toyota, Fiat, Landrover and Nissan can I add something?
At the factory we never used forged uj's, oem's wouldnt pay the extra, all our joints where folded steel. All made in Japan and shipped
over to be built up. They are safety critical components and manufacturer's do not cut corners on safety.
I used to put them in a machine and load them up in a static twist test, this was always required by oems. I cant remember the figure but a lot of
tons had to applied which always resulted in the bolt stretching but most times the cross in the end bearings popped out before the spread on the ears
slipped the splined male shaft. Some serious deformation occurred before total failure.
I'm not aware of a UJ failing during fit or in service from 1999 to 2009 when I left.
As well as a good made uj you need a good pinch bolt. This is one from the last Toyota Corrola..
The shoulder helps grip the shaft as well as the clamping force.
Just to add they cost pennys to make and hardly had any effect on the pricing of the column.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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