bigbravedave
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 02:50 PM |
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Is car design purely down to fashion these days.
I’m 30, and most of my mates and work colleges despite earning 30-40k all own 10-30 year old German or Japanese daily cars and have a “toy” car or
bike for fun. None of us can find a new car to drive daily that we aspire to own. We all regularly drive new cars through work, but are happy to spend
£700+ a year (on insurance, tax, servicing etc) on daily drivers worth £500 to £3000.
We grew up in the era where to be fashionable you just needed to be a bit “individual” rather than the “latest and greatest” generation of today. So
socially we’ve chosen to turn up to first dates in the likes of mk1 Golfs, Honda Integra’s, E36 BMWs etc rather than borrow a new bmw, audi, merc etc
from work, and they’ve all got cracking partners.
I appreciate that new cars are superbly refined nice places to be (when they’re not in for warranty work) but until car manufactures start making
circa 1 tonne, simple, bomb proof reliable, funky cars that are a bit individual, interesting and fun I think I’m going to still be seeing shirt and
tie commuters in 80’s -90’s icons.
It bugs a few of us who have saved up a sum of money to buy our first “flash car” but just can’t find a daily driver that we would aspire to own
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HowardB
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 03:16 PM |
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I am right there with you, the last car that I really enjoyed (other than the kit) was a WRX, it was just great fun,.. the older ones with less
electronics were even more fun.
I have since had a series of japenese and euroboxes and hate the bloody lot of them, the endless beeping, binging, flashing lights and pointless use
of electric motors to do things that used to be done with a touch of a finger.
I dislike auto handbrakes, sat nav and steering wheels with more buttons than a 747, so the kit is for me. My other fun car is a 61 Land Rover, it has
a button - for the horn, and that is it!
rant over  
Perhaps some one will listen to us and make something more fun and exciting rather than mind numbingly dull and similar.
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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SeanStone
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 03:20 PM |
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What isn't fun about an S2000? a GTR? an S3? Elise? Exige? The new toyota/subaru car looks a lot of fun. Newest bmw m3, RS4?
There are loads of cars which have great reviews, serious speed and/or practicality out there
Where are you guys looking???
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parkiboy
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 03:56 PM |
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I prefer my old cars, even though despite what you may think there are still some cracking new cars to be had.
I tried going down this route with a rx8 which was my last car, I also test drove a 350z before getting my mk and I just find cars these days to be
too refined for sports cars with alot of electronic over complication which isn't necessary which takes alot of the raw feel out of the driving
experience.
I sold my dc2 integra to get my rx8 but now ive tried it give me that or my mk1 mx5 turbo back over a newer refined sports car any day!
I just can't wait to get my mk registered to get a proper driving experience!
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HowardB
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 04:00 PM |
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Elise, great fun, but not so practical, the toyberu looks interesting... as for the rest, they are all FULL of electronics, BMW and Audi, VW, Seat etc
they are all good in their own way, but that is not what I want from a car.
I enjoyed the WRX, it was great, I had a couple of 205gti's too they were great. But why do I need to have an alarm to tell me it is cold
outside, to tell me that the door might be open that the tyres are soft, the windscreen wash is about to run out, the list is endless. In fact since I
am on a roll, auto head lights - bloody night mare. A friend with a new focus admitted she didn't know how to switch on the lights any
more,....! What will she do in the fog??
I am at a loss as to why car companies want us to concentrate less on driving and more on the in car systems and rubbish that is not needed. Think it
is bad here, I had a hire car in Houston, USA, with a huge sticker on the inside; Powered by Microsoft. Now I am worried,....
have a good evening, and be safe.
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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SeanStone
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 04:04 PM |
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Just turn the electronics off?
You can take traction control off of all those cars completely
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Hellfire
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 04:29 PM |
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The new Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ attempts to redress the balance;
GT 86 development engineer Yoshi Sasaki says the GT 86 is for those who are bored with cars that are too powerful with their turbo engines, have too
much grip with their huge tyres and four-wheel drive, cost too much and don't let the driver do enough. 'A fun car,' he says,
'is a car that you control.'
Phil
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bi22le
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 05:26 PM |
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Being the same age as you I can see both sides of the story.
But. . .
I find it hard to consider modern fast cars and older cars the same.
There is no refinement in the cars you state to like and less fun in the modern car.
They are almost contradictory terms. Unrefined almost = fun.
You can't argue that new cars are slow. New cars are very fast in comparison.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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mark chandler
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 06:19 PM |
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New cars simply do not inspire me, then the complex CAN electronics and technology start to make them inpractical as they age.... diesel Mondeo is a
good example of this.
Okay, if you look at the £50k + cars then they do become more interesting and well outside of my budget.
People do look back though with rose tinted glasses, MK1 escorts are worth loads these days, my dad used to manage a fleet hire company, they got a
batch of these in direct from ford with rust holes developing in the top of the front wings with 6 miles on the clock !!! So had to send them back.
When I first passed my test you purchased second hand cars based upon body condition, ie the one with least rust ! A car scrapped at 10 years due to
tin worm was normal, I rarely see a rusty car these days just tatty old ones still trundling around.
What I can say is that something like a 10 year 535i BMW will be a lot more fun than a Yaris so its 'old' in relative terms for me.
With tax and immision changes pre 2001 is looking the best bet BTW as you can have a big dirty car @ £220 pa road tax
Regards Mark
[Edited on 8/8/12 by mark chandler]
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pekwah1
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 06:31 PM |
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I know what you're saying here...
Although i also drive a new bmw, i've had a lot of older 90s cars as well.
The beemer drives brilliantly and inspires loads of confidence driven slow or fast.
The older cars i've had definitely don't feel as safe and you do get a sense of 'danger' in an older car, but saying that they
are so much more fun to drive! I think you get a much better feel of the road as they haven't got quite the level of electronics, power
steering, weight, chassis etc.
i think you need to buy a noble m12 gto 3r.....
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NigeEss
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 06:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
I rarely see a rusty car these days just tatty old ones still trundling around.
I probably weld 2-3 MOT failures a week on cars between 8-10 years old. Yesterday was a '54 plate
corsa with rusty sills, today a '51 Accord with a hole in the floor.
Main problem these days is simply you can't see the rot for all the plastic trim panels.
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.................Douglas Adams.
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steve m
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 06:42 PM |
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It really depends on what you actually want out of a car, as
My old old lotus 2+2 was brilliant to drive, but was so unreliable
my old Mg 's were fun, but so unreliable, and needed £300 of welding EVERY year to scrape through and MOT
my old rover sd1's were brilliant, but used more fuel than an an aircraft carrier
So were do you draw a line, my current car running costs are probably half what i paid for all the above put together
My current 2008 mondeo (diesel!!)
is sooooooooooo reliable
very comfortable
very economical
spares cost peanuts
And still probably the fastest accelerating "normal" car i have ever owned
steve
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iank
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 07:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
...
My current 2008 mondeo (diesel!!)
is sooooooooooo reliable
very comfortable
very economical
spares cost peanuts
And still probably the fastest accelerating "normal" car i have ever owned
steve
Just don't keep it for longer than another 2 years though as when they start to go down hill everything starts to wear out at the same time, and
if you think spares are peanuts wait for a diesel pump or injectors to go - instantly scrapping the car. Economy of 50mpg really isn't that
good compared to a decent petrol these days when you compare fuel prices.
I've just traded an 06 one in just as it started to run really poorly and fuel consumption rocketed. Got it swapped just in time (dealer was
going to send it straight to auction so didn't feel too bad).
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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macc man
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 08:37 PM |
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I looked at a Mondeo 3.0l but when I saw the road tax cost I walked away. I think I will run old cars from here on and pay the rapair bills as they
appear. New cars seem to be bought by people with no real money and just pay the monthly payments with no regard for what it is costing per mile.
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JoelP
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 08:59 PM |
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Modern cars are rather sanitised, but you pay your money and take your choice. My audi is actually over 10 years old, but still had modern car
problems - too complex, too tightly packed, too heavy with safety features, too cautious on traction control. But if you think about it, thats not
such a bad thing. If you want electric seats, dual zone climate, loads of airbags, abs etc, you have to accept it will have compex electrics and a
well packed bonnet - and that a small shunt might write it off. Father in law had a small shunt in his golf and the insurance estimate for repair ran
to 7 pages and £7.5k 
I cant think of many simple cars id like to own. Even old motors from my youth like a golf vr6/calibra turbo/406 v6 are still well into the age where
they have modern problems. If i had money to waste, id get something like a 5 year old rs4/6.
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steve m
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| posted on 8/8/12 at 09:36 PM |
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I dont keep them for more that 4 years
plus as ALL of my last 5 cars have been cat c cars i have never lost money either! and all are sold, with the owner knowing they are are cat c, with
piccys to prove
This one cost 5k to buy, and only 1k to get on the road, not bad for a £14000 car
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morcus
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| posted on 9/8/12 at 01:51 AM |
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I don't think it has anything to do with fashion, every generation has tighter and tighter regulations. added to this, if you did make
so9mething like a 205 now, all the reviews would say it was a death trap (Which I'm sure the data would suggest if you performed a modern crash
test) and noone would buy one.
I was thinking lately that the last generation of cars looked better than the current generation, but then I think I might have felt the same way
before, so I might think the same thing next time.
The past always looks better than it was for a start, and a 90's car won't have alot of stuff a 2000's car has, and it's
little things that make you journey to work more comfortable, somewhere to put your drink for example, Head lights that turn off when you turn the
engine off. I'd much rather own old cars, but if I was doing the sort of driving my dad used to do, I'd much rather have a comfy new car,
under warrantee and looked after by someone else.
In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.
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chillis
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| posted on 9/8/12 at 09:13 AM |
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There has always been a degree of 'fashion' in car styling thoughout the years but with fsahion Icons like Victoria Beckham having input
into vehicle design clearly the fashion world is having a bigger input than has been the case in the past. I guess since most cars are so similar
under the skin these days its only the bodywork left to try and appeal to the customer. Unfortunatly like you I don't see anything appealing on
the market at the moment.
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roadrunner
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| posted on 9/8/12 at 09:21 AM |
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Are we talking about actual drivers cars here.
You have to realise that most of the people on this forum are decent DRIVERS, we like the balls out, back to basics , scary stuff.
All the major car company's have to build safe cars for the masses.
But if you look hard enough, there are some very good new drivers cars out their.
Brad.
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bigbravedave
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| posted on 9/8/12 at 12:02 PM |
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Thanks for your thoughts fellas, glad Im not alone!
I think the point we're coming from is that modern drivers just don't seem as fun as the once were. and Im only comparing post 2005 stuff
to post 1985's cars. I have good friends with S2000's (as toy cars), theyre fantastic in every way. And then I drove a corrola AE86 which
was way more fun to drive in any frame of mind. hopefully the newer version will re address the balance.
I totally get the point about elises etc, just not as a daily driver that needs to accomodate a mountain bike or more than one friend.
Can you imagine how good a one tonne rear drive smallish car could be if they applied todays technologies and focus on fun when 25 years ago stuff
like the AE86 existed.
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