IanSouthLincs
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 03:37 PM |
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Pinto 202?
Hi Guys, I know these have been talked about before, but nothing I can find answers my question so apologies if I'm asking the obvious.
I've been offered a Pinto with a 202 block for decent money, I'm pretty sure these were the last of the pinto blocks ford made, also
pretty sure they were for the Transit. What I wanted to know is were these all low compression 74hp engines as in previous transit models?
I don't really want to get a reasonably priced engine, to then have to spend a fortune getting it to standard 2.0 power.
Any knowledge on this greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Ian
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snapper
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 03:59 PM |
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Could be any compression ratio
If it's running do a compression test
Only other way is to take head off and measure piston below deck
1/2mm or less its high comp
1mm or more its low comp
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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IanSouthLincs
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 05:13 PM |
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Thanks for the reply Snapper, unfortunately not going to be able to do either of those things so might give it a miss. Presumably if I went ahead and
bought this thing and it turned out to be a low comp engine, new pistons and con rods would be in order. I'm presuming the crank is universal
over the different compression models. Either way it will turn it into an expensive engine if this is the case.
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ali f27
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 06:44 PM |
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I have a 1.8 pinto just swapped it for a duratec was running fine has shortend sump and made good power also have 40 s to go with it would like to see
somebody use it would like £250 with the carbs
Cheers Ali
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IanSouthLincs
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 08:04 PM |
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cheers Ali, really want 2.0 im afraid and already have carbs. Thanks for the offer.
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ali f27
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 08:29 PM |
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No probs hope you find right motor i loved mine duratec has way more power but i still have great deal of affection for my pinto just want somebody to
get the use of it
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mcerd1
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 12:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by IanSouthLincs
Thanks for the reply Snapper, unfortunately not going to be able to do either of those things so might give it a miss. Presumably if I went ahead and
bought this thing and it turned out to be a low comp engine, new pistons and con rods would be in order. I'm presuming the crank is universal
over the different compression models. Either way it will turn it into an expensive engine if this is the case.
The crank & rods are the same on the low CR engines , but I the camshaft may be different (high torque / low power)
as a minimum I'd change the pistons and camshaft (even a fairly mild cam can make a big difference to a stock engine)
but that'll probably mean a rebore while your at it and probably new valve followers etc...
[Edited on 8/7/2014 by mcerd1]
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IanSouthLincs
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 01:44 PM |
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Thanks mcerd1, hmmm might not be so bad after all. Was thinking of an fr33 complete kit anyway, so that would take care of the top end. I suppose the
dilemma is if a rebore is required would it be possible to put some 2.8 Capri pistons in there?
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mcerd1
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 03:58 PM |
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the 2.8 V6 pistons is still the cheapest way to a 2.1 pinto
but that means a ~2.25mm overbore - that's normally 3 cuts + a finishing cut instead of 1 or 2 cuts
so a normal re-bore is ~£50, a 2.1 will be more like £150+ 
the V6 pistons are about £62 each (pinto ones are normally ~£45)
then the next issue is the height of the block as the V6 pistons are more than 1.5mm shorter - so that's another £50+ to get the block decked
(or you'll have the world lowest compression 2.1)
and then you'll need a vernier pulley to get the cam timing right due to the big change in the block height
(but if your fitting an aftermarket cam this should really be a must anyway)
then you just need to get some new 3 angle valve seats cut and skim the head to get the CR of your choosing
(porting a pinto head can give you big gains too, but will cost ~£300 on top)
all this adds up fast 
I've actually done most of this to my 205 block and a few steps beyond by adding a cossie crank & conrods, 93mm forged pistons, steel
flywheel
this gave me a few other interesting issues:
the cossie crank has an odd 9 bolt flywheel pattern - so I needed burtons £200 pinto size/cossie drilled flywheel (otherwise id need a cossie T5
gearbox too!) - the bonus is its only 5.5kg 
the pinto crank is actually strong enough, but for bigger outputs you'll want to dowel the flywheel on (the 9 bolt cossie + ARP bolts means you
don't need to do this)
the cossie conrods have no oil spray jets, so I needed a 2wd cossie 'spray bar' and oil pump (£80+ S/h or £200 new)
could have had spray jets added to the block like a '200' block cossie or WRC engine, but that costs even more...
the cossie rods are also 0.060" (1.524mm) longer than 5" pinto ones which would work out fine with shorter V6 pistons, but the 93mm forged
pistons are made to std. pinto height - so they needed ~1.5mm off the tops, to bring them flush with the top of the block (inc. the dummy build it
cost an extra £80 on top of the £520 for the new pistons )
so all in its a scary number, but the bottom end is good for at least 9000rpm and maybe even 11000rpm for short busts 
(pity the pinto heads all max out at ~8000rpm :lol: )
[Edited on 8/7/2014 by mcerd1]
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IanSouthLincs
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 04:53 PM |
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Mcerd1 this is brilliant info, I really appreciate it. Boy it does add up fast!!
I'm still not completely put off though, I just love the pinto for some masochistic reason! I think this may be a case of run my original non
205 block pretty much standard and at some point get a 202/205 and have it as a winter (or 2) project. Not sure I'll be going quite as far as
all the mods mentioned above though! At least this way the bank doesn't get annihilated all in one go and as there's already an engine in
situ I won't be quite as tempted to shove it in the car before it's finished.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 9/7/14 at 08:52 AM |
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there are quite a few ways to tune a pinto...
you can use cossie rods with cast V6 pistons (longer rods with the shorter pistons) but this needs the pistons modified to suit a floating gudgeon pin
if you do this then the cast piston will be the limiting factor on your bottom end rather than the conrods
or you can use escort/fiesta 1600 diesel rods with the V6 pistons, but these are even longer and have smaller big ends (3mm smaller) the des hammill
book has the details - done right it can give you an 2168cc pinto
[Edited on 10/7/2014 by mcerd1]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 10/7/14 at 07:11 AM |
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btw if you do go down the 2.1 pinto route don't expect much extra peak power
but what it will give you is a fair increase in torque
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IanSouthLincs
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| posted on 10/7/14 at 05:04 PM |
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Cheers for that, if that is the case would it be more sensible to go with a fairly lairy cam? I had originally intended an fr33, but if the CR is
somewhere between 10.5:1 and 11:1 would an RL31 be a better bet? Is this the kind of CR I should be aiming for? Did you increase the size of your
inlet valves at all?
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mcerd1
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| posted on 10/7/14 at 06:29 PM |
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I've left my head more or less standard for now, so all I've got is 3 angle seats, bronze guides and skimmed to ~11 or 11.5 CR
(I can do more later but after its on the road) and I've got a piper 285 cam (quite high lift, but not crazy duration)
newmans cams are also worth a look
some folk swear by the high torque cams for better drivability, others swear by very lumpy rally stage ones - but its really just horses for courses /
your preference
big valves and high lift cams will open up lots of power, but only if the porting, cam and carb's etc match it fairly well
and bear in mind the pinto valve geometry is a little tricky, so some of the larger valves that are available actually give you less lift than they
should due to the stem lengths being wrong
so its defiantly worth reading up on it careful - the Des Hammill and David Vizzard books are both full of good info
[Edited on 10/7/2014 by mcerd1]
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IanSouthLincs
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| posted on 17/7/14 at 08:08 PM |
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mcerd1, I really appreciate the time and generosity of information you've given here. Well, I've gone and bought an engine, pick it up
Saturday, its a 202 block that I'll probably spend a year or two rebuilding how I want it. In the meantime I'll keep the engine thats in
the car so I'm not tempted to rush it.
Wish me luck guys, I think I'm going to need it! :-)
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