Bike engine, sequential box, weight is king. You'll need a lot more than 20bhp more to make up the 100kg deficit on the track.
In sprinting there are three types of powertrain that seem reasonably well matched across circuits. Breathed on CBR1000RR engine, 190bhp, 420kg.
Breathed on busa engine, 220bhp, 450kg. Breathed on duratec + sequential, 270bhp, 520kg.
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posted on 24/11/15 at 07:27 PM
That's not going to be a contest... well not a fair one. At 100kg lighter the BEC will stop and corner quicker and at 440bhp/ton the cec would
need another 45bhp to get near it on acceleration.
Mines 500-550kg with me and 170@ the wheels. CECs seem to need to be over 250bhp to stay with me and in the end their brakes and tyres will fade
before mine.
Well im in the lucky position where i have had both so can with confidence that they both have = and - points,
driven a few trackdays with bec an cec, and my cars being a with rover k series 185 bhp and a with zx10r 170 bhp,
The cec took over on the straights and would keep pulling when the bec would start to laps around 110 mph,
out of the corners the BEC was quicker to get the power down for sure, and under braking even with the extra weight i could brake later in the cec
especially using the gears to slow down and not touch the brakes etc,
Overall i was quicker in the CEC on a lap, but there is not a lot in it, but the cec gave me more confidence than the BEC for some reason especially
when the car got out of shape with the extra torque etc,
Thats not to say i dont like BEC i love them and i think most will steer towards them on track for good reason, and they are very quick, aslong as you
do get the weight to 420 kg otherwise the cec will be all over the BEC like a rash,
summary
Straights CEC
Out of corners BEC
Top Speed CEC
Bracking CEC
corner speed BEC
Hmmm there pretty even really but ill wait for someone else to throw there hat in on this
Oh and i have been on track in the CEC and pushed BEC all the way and got past them, and they where busa zx9 and a R! just my opinion though,
Of the 2 you've stated the bike powered car should be much much quicker!
I've regularly sprinted with the wscc guys and terry everall and tim nunn are faster than all but a couple of the CEC cars, and at some places
faster (like 3 sisters)
Both have been in the 65's at Blyton park from a standing start (which was the same as I could manage in a radical!
But there's a few in higher powered cars like Adrian Clinton Watkins with the duratec race engine, the Bunn hodder Car with the blown type r
motor, John Hoyle in the 2.1 c20 xe (ask Jeff w how fast he is) wh regularly beat the bec's at places like Blyton a and Anglesey.
Its a difficult one to answer and like you say it's driver dependant. The average driver would probably go quicker In the CEC but get someone
like Tim nunn in a bike powered car and they are truly unbelievable!
Hi Shaun I was in no way insinuating you were an average driver, and was writing my original reply before I read any other responses so sorry if it
came across that way.
What I was meaning is you really need to be 'on it ' in a bike powered car to get the best from it. A bit like this from 3 years ago https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k6nEykLHN0M
No apology needed I am an average driver and it was with a smiley face, and i agree you need to be on it with a bec all the time to get the best
from them, cec is a bit more forgiving for people like me a wanaby stig
hence the reason im going cec now is uppose it suits me better thats all,
quote:Originally posted by danny keenan
I think these video is a good comparison of BEC vs CEC.
My car is the black and yellow MK and the other three are 295bhp caterhams.
quote:Originally posted by danny keenan
Andy just slowed for a lap to make sure everything was ok.i finished the race in 4th in front of the white Catherham which hit me
Well done mate!
Although this is getting a bit off topic..
This is pretty nippy! I saw 158mph at one point, and he's definitely not "on it"
2.3 V6 bec?
At what point do BEC's become too light? Assuming they have no aero package, has anyone experianced that they cannot push the tyres into the
surface well enough.
This shouldn't effect me, not with a 3.0 V6 up front, just curious.
There are not many BECs under 400Kg (like there are very few CEC under 500Kg) so I doubt that it would be an issue. There are BEC engined single
seaters which are under 300Kg but they have aero.
quote:Originally posted by mark chandler
How can they be to light unless you have negative aero?
Damping limitations and sprung:unsprung weight ratio start to tell, in short.
Even with the lightest wheels, hubs and tyres, it's difficult to reduce unsprung corner weight below a certain point, and the inertia of that
unsprung weight starts to become very difficult to control when you hit a bump, when there isn't so much inertia from the sprung weight to react
it against.
As Jeff suggests, most race tracks are smooth enough for it not to be too much of an issue, even at the achievable minimum weights of BECs,
but road use is a very different matter.
quote:Originally posted by Neville Jones
What are you contemplating now, Scott?
Ah, just wondering...
I've had an early 90's Caterham for some time now.
Raceline Zetec on Jenveys and Omex (200-ish bhp)
BGH Box
SPC Tracsport live-axle with Tran-x slipper and discs
Nitron Dampers
Alloy calipers
Thing is, I also have one of Andy Bates excellent 2008> Fireblade packages that's now surplus to requirements. He's marketing it for
me, but I've been having (VERY!) tenuous thoughts about maybe putting it in the Cat and saving Andy some hassle.
I recall that the James Whiting Fireblade Cats had live-axles and could shift pretty rapidly with only 130bhp and 410kg. I can imagine that a newer
170bhp Blade engine (lighter still) would move the game on further.
I think JW still offers the driveline packages (Blade prop / reverse box, etc.) for around the £1.4k mark. I'd see good money back on the Zetec
/ BGH package, but I'm not sure I could live with a BEC for the days when I just want to pootle into work with my 7.
Like I said, very tenuous thoughts - the driving experience would have to be CONSIDERABLY improved to significantly move my interest in doing this
further along.
I get that the Blade engines are the dogs-danglies on the race-track, but would they maintain that performance advantage when let loose on our
pot-holed, greasy B-roads.
I get that the Blade engines are the dogs-danglies on the race-track, but would they maintain that performance advantage when let loose on our
pot-holed, greasy B-roads.
For that statement alone I would be sticking with the CEC setup.
quote:Originally posted by Neville Jones
What are you contemplating now, Scott?
Ah, just wondering...
I've had an early 90's Caterham for some time now.
Raceline Zetec on Jenveys and Omex (200-ish bhp)
BGH Box
SPC Tracsport live-axle with Tran-x slipper and discs
Nitron Dampers
Alloy calipers
Thing is, I also have one of Andy Bates excellent 2008> Fireblade packages that's now surplus to requirements. He's marketing it for
me, but I've been having (VERY!) tenuous thoughts about maybe putting it in the Cat and saving Andy some hassle.
I recall that the James Whiting Fireblade Cats had live-axles and could shift pretty rapidly with only 130bhp and 410kg. I can imagine that a newer
170bhp Blade engine (lighter still) would move the game on further.
I think JW still offers the driveline packages (Blade prop / reverse box, etc.) for around the £1.4k mark. I'd see good money back on the Zetec
/ BGH package, but I'm not sure I could live with a BEC for the days when I just want to pootle into work with my 7.
Like I said, very tenuous thoughts - the driving experience would have to be CONSIDERABLY improved to significantly move my interest in doing this
further along.
I get that the Blade engines are the dogs-danglies on the race-track, but would they maintain that performance advantage when let loose on our
pot-holed, greasy B-roads.
quote:Originally posted by Neville Jones
What are you contemplating now, Scott?
Ah, just wondering...
I've had an early 90's Caterham for some time now.
Raceline Zetec on Jenveys and Omex (200-ish bhp)
BGH Box
SPC Tracsport live-axle with Tran-x slipper and discs
Nitron Dampers
Alloy calipers
Thing is, I also have one of Andy Bates excellent 2008> Fireblade packages that's now surplus to requirements. He's marketing it for
me, but I've been having (VERY!) tenuous thoughts about maybe putting it in the Cat and saving Andy some hassle.
I recall that the James Whiting Fireblade Cats had live-axles and could shift pretty rapidly with only 130bhp and 410kg. I can imagine that a newer
170bhp Blade engine (lighter still) would move the game on further.
I think JW still offers the driveline packages (Blade prop / reverse box, etc.) for around the £1.4k mark. I'd see good money back on the Zetec
/ BGH package, but I'm not sure I could live with a BEC for the days when I just want to pootle into work with my 7.
Like I said, very tenuous thoughts - the driving experience would have to be CONSIDERABLY improved to significantly move my interest in doing this
further along.
I get that the Blade engines are the dogs-danglies on the race-track, but would they maintain that performance advantage when let loose on our
pot-holed, greasy B-roads.
Send me your Zetec Setup ( for a good price though)
