craig1410
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| posted on 17/10/16 at 04:59 PM |
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Any BMW i3 owners on here?
Hi,
We test drove an all-electric BMW i3 last week for 48 hours and were very very impressed. It was the latest model with the 94 Ah battery but without
the range extender and is perfectly suitable for my wife to use for her 35 mile round-trip commute. She absolutely loved it and the chances are high
that we will put in an order this week.
The car we're probably looking at is a new i3 electric only with 'Loft' interior and eucalyptus dash with the sport package, aux
cabin heat pump and metallic 'Protonic Blue' paint. We will get £4500 off from the gov't and £3200 off from BMW Finance as a deposit
contribution. We can also get a free BMW i-Wallbox Pro installation so we'll be able to charge the car in around 4 hours compared to the usual
11+.
It's not a cheap car obviously but knowing a bit about the cost of the components such as the batteries and motor, not to mention the carbon
fibre shell and other niceties, I actually think it's pretty good value, especially when you no longer need to buy petrol.
So, I just wondered if there are any other i3 owners (past or present) out there who might have opinions to share, good or bad?
Some interesting vids here if anyone is interested:
i3 Teardown (the report from this will cost you $500k per copy!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8
i3 Production (part 1 of 4): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt1k3BLN7pw
Cheers,
Craig.
[Edited on 17/10/2016 by craig1410]
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sonic
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| posted on 17/10/16 at 07:23 PM |
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Hi I am interested to know how much it costs to charge one of these on say a 4 hrs fast charge, I bet the meter goes into overdrive.
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craig1410
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| posted on 17/10/16 at 07:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sonic
Hi I am interested to know how much it costs to charge one of these on say a 4 hrs fast charge, I bet the meter goes into overdrive.
it's a 240V / 32A feed to the charger and the figures I've seen suggest it's about £2.50 for a full charge if you do it at home.
However, you can also use a number of free or lower cost charging stations including some fast chargers which charge at 50kW so can charge the car
from virtually empty to 80% in 30-40 mins. The fast chargers don't run as fast for the remaining 20% so the best way to charge is to use the
fast charger to 80% then top it off at home. We used a local fast charger twice and it really was very convenient as it was right next to a large
retail park so my wife was able to shop while charging. There are a surprising number of chargers even around central scotland where we live so
elsewhere in the UK will undoubtedly be even better.
Edit: I couldn't find this earlier but here is a calculation done by an i3 owner albeit this was for the 60AHr model.
http://www.i3guide.com/charging.html#cost
So, roughly 2.6p / mile. That should be the same for the 94Ah model too because it has proportionally longer range.
[Edited on 17/10/2016 by craig1410]
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sonic
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| posted on 17/10/16 at 09:43 PM |
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How do they compare in terms of cost of ownership say over 4 years against a conventional super mini, servicing, warranty, parts, tyres etc
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craig1410
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| posted on 17/10/16 at 11:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sonic
How do they compare in terms of cost of ownership say over 4 years against a conventional super mini, servicing, warranty, parts, tyres etc
Ask me that in 4 years time! 
I believe servicing involves a service after 2 years to replace brake fluid and cabin filters and do a vehicle inspection. Then I'm told it is
yearly after that. You can get a 5 year service plan for £375 from BMW which seems reasonable. Link here:
https://www.bmw.co.uk/en_GB/topics/ownership/service/service-plans/i-service-inclusive.html
Warranty is the usual 3 years for most things but the batteries are warrantied for 8 years or 100000 miles.
Tyres are fairly unusual but BMW will charge about £150 IIRC or you can get them from camskill for around £100 each.
Links here:
Front: http://camskill.co.uk/m55b0s8725p0/Car_Tyres_-_MPV_Tyres_-_People_Carrier_Tyres_-_19_inch_R19_inch_-_155_70_19_155_70R19_OE_BMW
Back: http://camskill.co.uk/m55b0s8726p0/Car_Tyres_-_MPV_Tyres_-_People_Carrier_Tyres_-_19_inch_R19_inch_-_175_60_19_175_60R19_OE_BMW
Parts I don't know about but generally I have found over the last 3 years of owning a 535d that genuine BMW parts aren't all that
expensive for what they are. I've done quite a bit of DIY maintenance and repairs to my car and have no complaints. Obviously some of the
special parts such as motor and batteries will be expensive (and not a DIY repair due to danger of electrocution) but things like brake pad
replacement and other minor repairs should be straightforward enough.
The main cost of ownership for a new car of course is depreciation but BMW seem very keen to maintain the 2nd hand prices of cars by offering
attractive finance plans so that the cars are kept maintained and within the circles of the BMW dealers. You'll struggle to find a private
seller selling an i3. Also, when looking at depreciation figures, bear in mind that £4500 of the RRP is paid by the government so although that is
included in the depreciation figures, it was never really paid in the first place by the owner. That is a very important thing to remember.
Edit: I should also point out, having driven an i3, that you can drive 99% of the time without touching the brakes so the only wear they are likely to
have is oxidisation which will be cleaned off every so often. Seriously, one-pedal driving is great!
HTH,
Craig.
[Edited on 18/10/2016 by craig1410]
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rf900rush
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| posted on 18/10/16 at 07:25 AM |
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My question would be, how much would a new battery pack cost when the warranty runs out.
You may sell the car, say with 1 year warranty left, but who would buy it with a risk of needing to buy a new battery pack 1 year later.
I looked at the G-wiz briefly (don't laugh) for cheap motoring, but when the battery replace cost was included , the running cost was close to
my 2.5l Subaru Outback.
I know Batteries have improved greatly, but they all die at some point.
May be a personal lease hire, and leave the battery problem to them?
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DJT
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| posted on 18/10/16 at 11:19 AM |
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quote:
Edit: I should also point out, having driven an i3, that you can drive 99% of the time without touching the brakes so the only wear they are likely to
have is oxidisation which will be cleaned off every so often. Seriously, one-pedal driving is great!
That is interesting. Not so long ago I followed an i8 up the M3, through the contraflow. The traffic was stop start up to the 50mph average limit.
I wasn't following too closely, but the first couple of times the i8 slowed I found myself heading quickly towards his rear bumper. I assume
when the car regenerates on overrun it does not apply the brake lights. However, the car still slows significantly quicker than my coasting auto! It
might be better if the brake lights did illuminiate in this scenario.
Another thing that surpsied me was how much heat haze there was emitted from the rear roof when moving at these slower speeds. I assume this is heat
generated through inefficiencies in the motor controller or similar.
http://tigeravonbuilddiary.blogspot.com/
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Jamesc
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| posted on 18/10/16 at 12:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DJT
Another thing that surpsied me was how much heat haze there was emitted from the rear roof when moving at these slower speeds. I assume this is heat
generated through inefficiencies in the motor controller or similar.
That's more likely to be the 1.5L petrol engine that generates 220hp!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 18/10/16 at 02:22 PM |
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A friend has a Renault Zoe and has tried commuting Blantyre-Edinburgh with it. Edinburgh is within range but the batery is close to 1/8th charge at
the end this is with a new brand battery in summer temperatures and no major inclines enroute.
Re-charging at the other end was free but the question is how long is free charging going to remain free? In winter the battery efficiency will be
lower and the heating is powered by the battery.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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craig1410
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| posted on 19/10/16 at 08:57 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rf900rush
My question would be, how much would a new battery pack cost when the warranty runs out.
You may sell the car, say with 1 year warranty left, but who would buy it with a risk of needing to buy a new battery pack 1 year later.
I looked at the G-wiz briefly (don't laugh) for cheap motoring, but when the battery replace cost was included , the running cost was close to
my 2.5l Subaru Outback.
I know Batteries have improved greatly, but they all die at some point.
May be a personal lease hire, and leave the battery problem to them?
The battery pack is split into 8 modules, each of which can be replaced individually. That said, yes they are currently expensive, £1000 or so for a
module, but in 8 years time that cost will be a lot lower because there will be a lot more electric cars on the road by then and battery costs will
drop just as we have seen with solar panels. Also, I will probably be looking to change car after 5 or 6 years at most so it'll be someone
else's problem.
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craig1410
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| posted on 19/10/16 at 09:03 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DJT
quote:
Edit: I should also point out, having driven an i3, that you can drive 99% of the time without touching the brakes so the only wear they are likely to
have is oxidisation which will be cleaned off every so often. Seriously, one-pedal driving is great!
That is interesting. Not so long ago I followed an i8 up the M3, through the contraflow. The traffic was stop start up to the 50mph average limit.
I wasn't following too closely, but the first couple of times the i8 slowed I found myself heading quickly towards his rear bumper. I assume
when the car regenerates on overrun it does not apply the brake lights. However, the car still slows significantly quicker than my coasting auto! It
might be better if the brake lights did illuminiate in this scenario.
Another thing that surpsied me was how much heat haze there was emitted from the rear roof when moving at these slower speeds. I assume this is heat
generated through inefficiencies in the motor controller or similar.
As someone else said the i8 has a powerful combustion engine so thats where the heat haze would be from. The i3 is extremely efficient in terms of its
motor so highly unlikely to produce much waste heat.
As for brake lights, actually it DOES illuminate them under regen braking as this was something I specifically asked about and then verified myself. I
could see my brake lights reflected one night as I was being followed by a double decker bus. It seems to sense deceleration levels though so
won't light up if you are slowing just a little bit.
In stop-start traffic, there is a £790 option for the i3 to let it do the stopping and starting and steering for you. It will basically crawl along at
a set distance from the car in front, keeping in lane and will even come to a halt and start again when the traffic moves. You must grip the wheel or
it will disable itself but apart from that it will do everything! Very tempted to get that option!
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craig1410
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| posted on 19/10/16 at 09:11 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
A friend has a Renault Zoe and has tried commuting Blantyre-Edinburgh with it. Edinburgh is within range but the batery is close to 1/8th charge at
the end this is with a new brand battery in summer temperatures and no major inclines enroute.
Re-charging at the other end was free but the question is how long is free charging going to remain free? In winter the battery efficiency will be
lower and the heating is powered by the battery.
Some charging stations already charge for this service (pardon the pun) but many are free and likely to remain free, especially while electric cars
are a minority. I'm sure it won't all be plain (plane?) sailing as the charging schemes need money to scale up as adoption increases but
it's always going to be cheaper than burning old dinosaurs whatever happens.
Yes in winter the battery efficiency drops but the i3 has a heating and cooling system built into the battery packs which uses the same stuff as the
air con. This allows you to "pre-condition" the batteries to an optimum temperature before you unplug from the mains. You can also use
this feature to heat and de-ice/de-mist the cabin. We used this one morning and my wife immediately fell in love with the car! You can set it on a 7
day timer and control it from the mobile phone app.
As for heating, yes it is done from the electric power but the i3 has an option of a heat pump (auxiliary cabin heater) for £530 which works like an
air-conditioner in reverse and takes heat from the outside air and pumps it inside. It is a standard option in scandanavian countries and can get heat
even from sub-zero outside air. This feature greatly increases cabin heating efficiency. We're planning to get this feature too.
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DJT
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| posted on 19/10/16 at 12:53 PM |
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I was reading today, that from 2030, EVs only will be allowed to be registered in Germany. The cut-off is 2025 for the Netherlands! I suppose the
internal combustion engines on the German manufacturers' drawing boards right now will possibly be the last. At least for EU markets.
http://tigeravonbuilddiary.blogspot.com/
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craig1410
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| posted on 19/10/16 at 01:07 PM |
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Yeah I read that too which is why I'm not too worried about jumping on the band-wagon now. Yeah, early-adopters always pay a bit more and take
some pain but the i3 is a hoot to drive so it's got its compensations! 
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rm0rgan
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| posted on 21/11/16 at 04:50 PM |
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I had a BMW i3 94ah ReX delivered Friday for an extended test drive...will be interesting to see how I get on with it as I'm a fairly high
mileage driver (but many of them within the Battery range)...about 80/20
I'm currently leasing a Nissan QQ 1.5dci Tekna and it's a lovely thing to drive - very quiet and economical having averaged mid 50's
mpg since new but I have just crossed over 45,000 miles in 29 months and I'm paying £318 a month (annoyingly, even though I told them I would be
doing 20k pa they based the lease on 15k pa so will need to pay some penalty mileage when it goes back however BMW have indicated they might take care
of this or at least a large share of it in any settlement figure we agree if I place an order before Xmas) - shows how keen they are to push their new
technology.
BMW have offered me a 2-year lease based on 20,000 miles pa at 0% apr. The Government currently pay £4500 and BMW will pay a £3500 deposit
contribution (I can extend the lease to 3 or 4 years if I want afterwards but then I pay interest at about 2.9%). Anyhow, as it stands, if I put
nothing into the deal (why would I, it's 0% credit!) the cost per month with Sports Pack (which includes LED headlights, Harmon & Kardon
speakers, privacy glass), Met Paint, Professional Sat Nav upgrade and servicing comes in at £630 pm...
So, the man maths here for those who just had a sharp intake of breath at the lease per month cost is I'm currently sticking on average
£300/£350 a month of fuel into my QQ, so add that to my lease cost of £318 and I'm pretty much equal to the monthly cost of the i3 ReX plus all
the toys. I get back on average £500 - £600 a month in mileage expenses from my employer, so assuming I will cover 80% of all my journeys on EV power
alone I should be around £200-£300 a month better off - we have free charging at work too and I will use as many of the free fast charge points as I
can as I travel about on business and ReX for the rest.
So far I'm loving it - the instant torque is a real hoot and it is properly quick and incredibly refined - you can barely hear the ReX if it
kicks in.
In fact, I'm so impressed, I've asked the dealership to build up a deal for two identical cars to what I want and base the mileage at
10,000 each so my wife can have one too (she currently has a Smart car and this costs her about £150 a month in lease, servicing and fuel - she does
very little mileage so I will just drive the one with the least mileage each time to keep them in sync) - So my challenge to them today is to get me
two identical cars for under £800 a month, give me a free charging box for home and I'll sign the order when I give the car back at the end of
this week - it really is that good!
BMW are offering extended test drives so I'd recommend anyone to get to their local dealer and experience it :-)
Sigs are uncool.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 21/11/16 at 06:01 PM |
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I don't know if you've seen this?
YouTube
He does get a bit "hippy" towards the end...
(I tried to put this up using the YouTube button in the editor, but it didn't work - maybe the hyphen is screwing it up).
[Edited on 21/11/16 by David Jenkins]
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rm0rgan
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| posted on 21/11/16 at 09:10 PM |
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Yes - I quite like his videos!
Sigs are uncool.
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TimC
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| posted on 21/11/16 at 11:01 PM |
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That's not too bad (£630pcm) - like you I'm doing that sort of mileage. The only thing is bangernomics seems to still be c.£1500-2000pa
cheaper. At some point I'll get tired of having the oldest car in the car park - particularly since I run the place...
I've just spotted where you are - which dealer are you using?
[Edited on 21/11/16 by TimC]
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rm0rgan
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| posted on 22/11/16 at 07:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TimC
That's not too bad (£630pcm) - like you I'm doing that sort of mileage. The only thing is bangernomics seems to still be c.£1500-2000pa
cheaper. At some point I'll get tired of having the oldest car in the car park - particularly since I run the place...
I've just spotted where you are - which dealer are you using?
[Edited on 21/11/16 by TimC]
I'm using Cotswold BWM Hereford but they are part of the same group as the Gloucester dealership - the 'i-team' in both have been
superb (so far) - properly going the extra mile to ensure I can experience it in my daily life.
One think I already know though is you'd have to have a charge box installed as it takes too long to recharge off the 3-pin box given the times
I get in and go out...
Sigs are uncool.
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craig1410
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| posted on 22/11/16 at 08:32 AM |
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Re the 32A charge point, you can receive this fully funded, at least in Scotland, through a combination of OLEV grant and Energy Saving Tryst top-up
funding. Let me know if you want more details. I've got an application in progress with http://jorro.co.uk to install mine but there are other
installers authorised on this scheme.
Cheers,
Craig.
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rm0rgan
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| posted on 24/11/16 at 08:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Re the 32A charge point, you can receive this fully funded, at least in Scotland, through a combination of OLEV grant and Energy Saving Tryst top-up
funding. Let me know if you want more details. I've got an application in progress with http://jorro.co.uk to install mine but there are other
installers authorised on this scheme.
Cheers,
Craig.
Stunning - the BMW dealership gave me details of a funded project to install free charging points via Electric Nation, so should be able to get one
via this scheme for free :-)
Sigs are uncool.
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craig1410
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| posted on 15/12/16 at 01:25 AM |
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FYI, I got my charge point installed today. The Jorro guys did a good job and were easy to work with but I've got to say, £500 from OLEV plus
£349 from EST is quite a lot for what amounted to a 6mm radial circuit of about 12m length inside plastic conduit with the charge point itself having
very few internal parts. They took just over an hour from start to finish for a two man team. The guys said they are doing around 3 installations a
day so it sounds like good business for installers.
Anyway, still another 6 weeks or so to wait for the i3... 
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rm0rgan
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| posted on 15/12/16 at 08:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
FYI, I got my charge point installed today. The Jorro guys did a good job and were easy to work with but I've got to say, £500 from OLEV plus
£349 from EST is quite a lot for what amounted to a 6mm radial circuit of about 12m length inside plastic conduit with the charge point itself having
very few internal parts. They took just over an hour from start to finish for a two man team. The guys said they are doing around 3 installations a
day so it sounds like good business for installers.
Anyway, still another 6 weeks or so to wait for the i3...
I guess they need to recover the initial investment on R&D etc...my box is being fitted in Feb, the car may arrive a few weeks earlier but we will
see...I can always ReX/use the 3 pin plug to charge in the interim...
I changed my deal in the end to 4 years at 2.9% apr as I'm not convinced the grants and deals will still be around in 2 years time and wanted
the option to keep the car longer just in case. I found out that the finance rate at the end of the 2 years interest-free period shoots up to around
7.9% so over 4 years works out more expensive - the net effect is this has dropped my payments down to £526 a month even with the addition of the
Suite interior (leather), so I'm quite happy with that!
Roll on mid/end Jan (assuming dates don't change!)
Sigs are uncool.
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craig1410
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| posted on 15/12/16 at 10:56 AM |
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Yeah we went with the 2.9% APR deal over 4 years as well as it's a pretty good rate, especially given the 'contribution' given
towards the sale price by BMW finance. I expect they do this to stop customers going for the government interest free loan scheme. From the
dealer's point of view it's always better to control the buying experience from end to end.
Another reason for going with the 4 year term is to give the industry a bit more time to mature before our next EV purchase. Two years will be gone in
a flash, and of course the negotiations over a replacement will begin after 15 to 18 months and that's just too soon for me. I'm sure
there are people who enjoy changing their car every year or two but I'm not one of them. I prefer to keep a car for a few years and get to know
it and, more importantly, give myself time to recover from the stress of the purchase decision and process. As you say, who knows what offers or
grants will still be around in 2 years time. The same is true in 4 years time of course but by then at least the cost of the batteries will be
significantly lower and perhaps grants will no longer be necessary to make a purchase affordable.
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rm0rgan
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| posted on 22/2/17 at 07:08 PM |
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Craig, so how are you getting on with your i3?
I picked mine up last week and have covered 1000 miles so far and absolutely loving it. Still waiting to have my charge point fitted at home but
getting by with the OUC for now. Not a day goes by when I don't find a new feature or something that makes me go Oooooo.
Longest trip so far was Ross on Wye to Plymouth which wasn't as cheap as my trip to London the day before - I got two free rapid charges at Mini
Oxford , one on the way there, and another on the way back and used about 3/4 a tank of fuel (my choice to burn fuel as I needed to protect my charge
level as much charge as possible as I was leaving at 6:30 am the following morning. So, a grand total of £7.85 in fuel for that one - a total of 270
odd miles.
Plymouth was a slightly different story - Full tank and a rapid Charge in Exeter got me down to Plymouth and then another charge/top up of the tank in
Bristol, before EV'ing it all the way home...so somewhere around the £20 mark for the 330 odd mile trip and thoroughly enjoyed it!
Interior is a work of art - totally futuristic and feels like an event whenever you step in the car....:-)
Sigs are uncool.
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