DarrenW
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| posted on 24/12/05 at 11:15 PM |
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First Proper drive - Getting happier with power.
Well,
Ive finaly recovered enough to effect a temp repair. Warmed engine through a few times and it held OK. Dod 30 odd miles today without incident so well
happy. I have noticed though that acceleration is a lot less than expectation.
Spec - std 2.0 pinto injection lump. DIY ported head, Kent FR32, std new cam springs, 40 thou skim. Std cam sprocket (cam timing could be mile out).
Brand new ignition. 38DGAS allegedly jetted for RS2000. Timing done by ear. Rolling road tune cried out for.
Point 1. Yes it needs setting up properly but i doubt im too far out so i will want more power.
Point 2. I used to have M3 Evo. Power to weight approc 225bhp/ton. ) 0 - 60 5.2 secs on optimax. i wont be happy until i can get same performance.
Point 3 - Yes Zetec sounds like god conversion but iam really into the pinto and have to get this out of my system.
Questions;
1. What weight are your pinto ZR's? Im thinking mine is aroung 700Kg wet without driver.
2. What is best / cheapest way to get 150 bhp from Pinto? Please give idea of budget and how to achieve.
3. What is best /cheapest way to get 170 - 180 bhpfrom pinto.
4. Easy to turbocharge / supercharge? Please discuss.
my thoughts are currently rebuilding bottom end to 2.1 and then fit bike carbs / throttle bodies. I have thought about 2.2 conversion. Does anyone
have any experience and fuelling advice.
Mookaloid - fancy testing mine out and offering advice? Id jump at the chance of a trip out in yours sometime so i can get a batter idea what proper
power feels like.
[Edited on 19/1/06 by DarrenW]
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Avoneer
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| posted on 24/12/05 at 11:18 PM |
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Twin 45's or bike carbs and your cam should see near the figures and power you want.
My Pinto with injection head, fast cam and twin 40's was no slouch and low 5's.
Weighed 636kg at SVA with full tank and no people.
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 24/12/05 at 11:25 PM |
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Probably best option is to rip out the anchor and put... well you know what suggestion I'm gonna make....
Spanked 2005 M3 CSi - Rockingham November 2005 - Paul Fisher... GAME OVER ...priceless!!! 
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Hellfire
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| posted on 24/12/05 at 11:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Avoneer
Twin 45's or bike carbs and your cam should see near the figures and power you want.
My Pinto with injection head, fast cam and twin 40's was no slouch and low 5's.
Weighed 636kg at SVA with full tank and no people.
Pat...
That why you're going BEC then Pat  
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DarrenW
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| posted on 24/12/05 at 11:30 PM |
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Hellfire - i wont say you are getting predictable - but........... (Go to bed b4 santa sees you!!!).
I know the transplant options - just keen to explore pinto budget option first.Cheers and all the best, Darren.
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zilspeed
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| posted on 25/12/05 at 12:25 AM |
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do the setup - then think about it.
Your power could all just appear at once.
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SixedUp
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| posted on 25/12/05 at 11:53 AM |
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quote:
Point 1. Yes it needs setting up properly but i doubt im too far out so i will want more power.
Well, you don't need to be much out to seriously affect the performance of a tuned engine, particularly if you have a combination of items all
just "a little out". As for wanting more power, well, yes, always. Just taken as read really ...
quote:
Point 2. I used to have M3 Evo. Power to weight approc 225bhp/ton. ) 0 - 60 5.2 secs on optimax. i wont be happy until i can get same performance.
You can fairly easily get to the same power to weight ratio (160-170bhp). Whether that equates to the same performance on the road is a completely
different matter. Its unlikely that you will get the same torque as that very modern 3.2 from a poor little 2.0 pinto, no matter how you tune it. Then
there's the not-so-small matter of gearing, traction (suspension, LSD, tyres,) etc etc
If you want to regularly go stomping on M3's then you may be starting with the wrong engine/gearbox combination ...
quote:
Point 3 - Yes Zetec sounds like god conversion but iam really into the pinto and have to get this out of my system.
Good man! Me too. I just love the smell of the pinto when I walk into the garage (and yeah, I know its just because of all the oil leaks!)
quote:
2. What is best / cheapest way to get 150 bhp from Pinto? Please give idea of budget and how to achieve.
If your porting was good then I reckon you should be around there already with a set of weber/dellorto 40/45s, and everything set up properly.
quote:
3. What is best /cheapest way to get 170 - 180 bhp from pinto.
Starting to get harder, and more expensive. I'll defer to someone like Mookaloid to provide a shopping list, as I've just picked up all
sorts of bits along the way and bolted them together ... not a very scientific (or cheap!) way of approaching the problem.
Hope that helps a little
Cheers
Richard
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jambojeef
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| posted on 25/12/05 at 01:42 PM |
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Ive got a Pinto turbo manifold if you're interested!
Yours for £20!
Geoff
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 25/12/05 at 06:46 PM |
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darren I took the Mk pinto out for a thrash and at the time I also had a powerful car a swb 300zx tt
and the Mk although a bit of fun was seriously a shite performer I can apreciate its been ragged etc by everyone but still!
I had to go out in a bec to be convinced to sell my Z
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Guinness
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| posted on 25/12/05 at 08:21 PM |
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Darren
If I were you I'd get it booked into R P Woods in Heaton. Rolling road with a good reputation. He'll sort out the timing, jetting etc
pretty quick and it won't cost the earth.
Then you can see what you really have under the bonnet. Then you can make some decisions about changing the engine etc.
Or just buy Geoff's turbo manifold and go pinto mental!
Mike
P.S. Merry Christmas !
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jos
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| posted on 27/12/05 at 12:57 PM |
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I'd take it for one of Mark Colin & Ols fettles personally. I cant believe the difference they made to mine.
[Edited on 27/12/05 by jos]
.: Motorsport / motor racing circuit / track wall art Apex Traxs :.
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bigrich
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| posted on 28/12/05 at 11:23 PM |
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i would imagine the pinto zr is about 610kg wet minus driver as for performance i would recommend a rr session to get the best of what you have to
start with then youll have a base line from which to start improvements i would guess carbs /carb is holding it back at present as mac#1's old
pintosaurus demo was a surprisingly good performer on track 2.1,twincarbs etc if that fails you could try the if you need to go faster don't
brake method you could have a chat with johnny weston about cost effective mods for the pinto (stanwood engineering) i'm sure mark could
put you in touch
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DarrenW
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| posted on 5/1/06 at 03:25 PM |
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Thanks to all for the input. I had a drive yesterday without helmet meaning more was audible. I have confirmed to myself that a good setup is
definitely in order so i can get a true starting point. Couple of things i have noticed;
1. Im not totally sure how to diagnose pinking but i think i have it after reading other posts. I have been told that backing off the dizzy could be
in order. I have only set by ear so far (rotated to a point where tickover revs were at max, continued till it dropped off a bit then backed off dizzy
a touch). If someone can give good description of pinking then id appreciate that.
2. Airflow could / is seriously compromised. Engine runs better with bonnet off. 38DGAS on pinto with pipercross foam filter. Bonnet seems to be
pushing down on top of filter. Im reluctant to cut hole as i really want to fit new carbs later but need to investigate first. Cant decide wether to
go for bike carbs or throttle bodies etc etc. I think ill try removing filter for short run out to prove theory. I might need to crudely fabricate an
airbox / collector and fit cone filter in convenient position. Height is an issue though so i will always be compromised. Needs more thought. I
suspect this is reason why engine seems reluctant to rev up freely / rapidly. I wonder if anyone has a cheap bonnet that could be used??????
In general there isnt much wrong as car starts well even with no choke. It doesnt get excessively hot and isnt smoking. Quick 0 - 60 run in damp
conditions with limited experience showed a little over 7 secs. Wheels spin well on current road conditions so there is definetely some power there.
All in all im enjoying driving it steadily - its just so nice to be out even though the car contributed to a very sad loss.
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jos
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| posted on 5/1/06 at 04:41 PM |
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I dont have an air filter at all but have been warned by Mark that if I hadnt used a couple of screws to stop the bonnet from being sucked down onto
the top of the carb I couldve come into problems at SVA/emissions with poor idling.
All Ive used was a long thread bolt with a nut on to stop it from shaking down its shank with the heads about 2 head thickness above the top of the
carb.
I do have a nice scorch mark where theres been excess fuel in the carb which ignited on swicth off but a few battle scars dont matter eh......
.: Motorsport / motor racing circuit / track wall art Apex Traxs :.
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Stu16v
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| posted on 5/1/06 at 07:53 PM |
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1. Im not totally sure how to diagnose quote:
pinking but i think i have it after reading other posts. I have been told that backing off the dizzy
could be in order. I have only set by ear so far (rotated to a point where tickover revs were at max, continued till it dropped off a bit then backed
off dizzy a touch). If someone can give good description of pinking then id appreciate that.
You *nearly* did it right. As it stands, the timing is quite likely to be too far advanced.
You need to do almost as you have done above, but at 4000rpm - NOT AT IDLE! Start with the timing too far retarded. Advance until the revs have
increased as far as they are going too - and then retard slightly, so the revs *just* drop off slightly again. The timing wont be too far away then...
[Edited on 5/1/06 by Stu16v]
Dont just build it.....make it!
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DarrenW
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| posted on 13/1/06 at 11:46 AM |
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Just to give some feedback. Quick call to Mac#1 has confirmed that iam experiencing pinking. Sounds similar to rattling a tin with a pin in it -
echoey metallic tinkly sound. Quite prevalent coming from 4 branch seeing as it is quite close. Engine occasionally runs on when switching off (not
always though) and sometimes seems to be fighting a compression stroke when turning over to start. Reason - ignition way too advanced. I know how to
back it off so will give it a go soon. (Im going to go for drive with 13mm spanner in pocket and just keep backing dizzy off a little at a time till
it seems to run better under load).
Airfilter - for now im going to cut out front of bonnet bulge to improve air flow across top of engine. Will probs make some holes at back of bonnet
to help warm air escape as well. This should help air get to carb. I cant bring myself to cut hole for filter just yet - 38DGAS was only ever a cheap
mod to get me running. Im really after bike carbs at some point when the conversion gets a bit cheaper.
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Peteff
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| posted on 13/1/06 at 01:04 PM |
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Slacken the pinch bolt, start the engine and speed the tickover up then turn the distributor till the engine speeds up for a starter point. Get your
timing mark highlighted and check it when it's running on normal tickover, somewhere between 8* and 12* should be acceptable. Running weak can
cause pinking as well as timing.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 19/1/06 at 12:21 AM |
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The plot has thickened and some improvements made.
Firstly i have backed off the timing a little at a time and done a run. Resulted in better running, touch less pinking and no more running on. 0-60
felt stronger but 60 - 90 nowt flash.
Since then ive pondered over engine plumbing. Vac advance wasnt connected. I was advised not to but since found it needs to be. Additionally the carb
had a vac point which was open. So what we have is timing not being advanced at higher revs and carb with a hole!!!!! It seems so obvious that no
further discussion required.
Q - would carb vac point being open result in unstable mixture / emmissions setting????
Next job is tweaking the timing now it has a vac advance and resetting the mixture that was last teaked at SVA to pass (ie every possibility that is a
touch lean).
Looks like i also made classic mistake of not connecting PCV valve to inlet manifold. Ive observed an oil leak from sump, slight but probs caused by
pressure. Also seen vapour exitting the oil filler cap, normally a function reserved for allowing air into rocker cover. Now PCV is connected to
manifold this seems to be resolved.
Last tweak of timing resulted in 0-60 dash of 6.8 (crap launch, planty of wheel spin) but with too much pinking. Im hoping now for further
improvement.
After basic set up i hope to source vernier cam wheel and arrange rolling road set up - and all before the track day at teesside on 27th March.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 19/1/06 at 11:19 PM |
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Tonights activity. Sussed how to use Tachostrobe. Set it all up - the timing mark was almost out of sight - ie engine has been firing way to far
btdc!!! How did it run at all. main reason for this is that i assumed the wrong direction of turn for dizzy to retard - i was advancing. Poor thing
was firing while piston was still going thro compression stroke. Adjustments made and it ticks over ever so sweet and starts very easily now.
Next Q - can anyone confirm how to roughly adjust the 38DGAS idle screws. I found mine were out of balance. Now 1.5 turns out on each. Reason for
being so far out was that they were tweeked inhurry ar SVA to pass emmissions. The nice tester hit the button when i was in to get a pass.
Unfortunately result is they need setting up properley now.
cant wait till tomorrow to do a test flight!!
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