AntonUK
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| posted on 4/2/18 at 05:56 PM |
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Power Steering
Following my previous thread about my attempts to fit the vauxhall agila/suzuki wagon power steering to my car im still struggling to get it to
work...
https://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=211371
I have the motor, controller and sensor all on the bench for testing (separate to the column).
I have purchased the rallywiz add-on to obtain the correct signals etc via a potetiometer. It is outputting square waves as expected and its all
connected correctly.
On power up, the controller clicks then clicks again after about 2 seconds. Sounds like a relay activates then goes off again.
I expected that when I turned the sensor the motor would turn, but nothing happens.
The motor and the electronic clutch works when 12v is applied directly to their pins
I have 2off oem controllers, which both do the same thing.
Help??
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DW100
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| posted on 4/2/18 at 06:03 PM |
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Could be a voltage related thing. The controller will be looking to see the alternator charging before switching on power steering.
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AntonUK
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| posted on 4/2/18 at 06:20 PM |
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I did consider that, so put the battery I'm using on charge and getting over 13v
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obfripper
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| posted on 4/2/18 at 09:03 PM |
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Iirc it definitely needs >13.5v before assistance is given, once this is achieved it will stay active til ignition is switched off to account for
voltage drop under load while the engine is running.
Have you any diagnostic equipment that will communicate with the control unit?
Do you know exact details of the vehicle that donated your epas control unit, i notice on my haynes data there is some variation on which pins are
switched live and diagnostic link depending on year selected.
Dave
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AntonUK
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| posted on 4/2/18 at 09:21 PM |
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Hmmmm.. ok, I shall have to think up a way of getting suitable 13.5v on the bench.
Original control unit was advertised as a 'Vauxhall Agila 01-08 Suzuki Wagon R 01-0'
The 2nd controller came from a 2005 Suzuki wagon r. If you have some pinnout (or any data) relating to these units i would be most grateful for a
copy?
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obfripper
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| posted on 4/2/18 at 09:30 PM |
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Just to add, diagnostic flash codes may be available from the eps fault lamp by shorting a7 to earth then turning on the ignition. This is assuming
your unit wiring matches the suzuki block diagram owelly posted on the previously linked thread, the later units don't appear to have this
functionality.
I have these pinouts for a 2004-7 g10 engined wagon-r.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qf6ct2xiq3mn8ix/AAD5ORj_RdCz6rKTyiT1LGpma?dl=0
See how these match up to your control unit, if they supplied any loom with the controller double check the wire colours as well.
Dave
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AntonUK
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| posted on 4/2/18 at 09:51 PM |
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Many thanks for those.
Very interesting... the screenshots you supplied indicate the switched live, vss, and engine speed are across pins 6-8. which in turn matches the
details given by rallywizz. But the original pinouts on the previous thread show those at the other end of the connector at pins 3-5.
I'll try swapping them tomorrow evening.
Thanks again, I'll post findings again tomorrow.
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AntonUK
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| posted on 5/2/18 at 07:33 PM |
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Had another quick go tonight. Swapping the pins and getting a 13.8v supply and its still not working.
By swapping the pins I dont get the clicking so I'm confident I have the right pins in the first place.
My only last thought is the torque sensor is faulty.
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AntonUK
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| posted on 5/2/18 at 09:51 PM |
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found these online too
 
Description
 
Description
I'll try hooking up a diagnostic light next
Would welcome any other thoughts?
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obfripper
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| posted on 5/2/18 at 10:02 PM |
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To check the torque sensor output with a multimeter, it should be 2.5v with no load on both sensors, and will go higher on one sensor and lower on the
other when under load by equal amounts, the voltage change will reverse in the opposite direction.
I think I have a copy of vauxhall tis on an old pc, there may be some more relevant info on there that i can dig out.
The diagram you've got is a block schematic and doesn't have all the wiring covered, but there may be enough info to check what you know
so far is correct.
The only other route is to wire in the obd socket as per pinout and get someone with suitable equipment to read any fault codes and check live data is
correct.
Dave
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AntonUK
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| posted on 6/2/18 at 08:40 PM |
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Had another go tonight.
Hooked up a diagnostic light and its permanently lit when the unit is powered on
Checked the pins on the torque sensor and all pings out well. 9v and 3.3v supplies, and 2.5v on each of the signals which change when moving the
sensor.
Still nothing....
Ive put a scope on the diagnostics pin and dont get any output signals, I assume you have to send it data to get a response?
You mention OBD2, i have the cheap ebay lead would this be able to communicate?
I hate giving up, but im getting to the end of my abilities now.
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obfripper
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| posted on 8/2/18 at 12:00 AM |
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The old pc is dead, but have managed to dig out the discs for vauxhall tis, i just need to find an win xp pc to install it as it won't play with
anything newer.
The diag socket will need compatible diagnostic hardware, probably the cheapest one is a opcom clone on ebay if you can't borrow anything
else.
EOBD only covers engine management and gearbox controllers, and only for the mandated functions.
The diag pin should respond when polled, i don't know offhand what the required signal to get a reponse is though.
Dave
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40inches
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| posted on 8/2/18 at 09:42 AM |
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This may or may not help, I fitted a MGF power steering to the MK. At first I thought it wasn't working, tried it while the car was on stands,
nothing! It seems it needs resistance in the steering, because with the wheels on the floor it worked fine.
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AntonUK
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| posted on 11/2/18 at 03:49 PM |
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Eventually got to the bottom of this one.
It turns out there are 2 differing types of Agila/Wagon PAS assemblies. Difference being the torque sensor type. One is a Hall Effect the other being
a leaver arrangement. The control unit has to match which sensor your are using. Mine were miss matched.
Ive now purchased a complete column from ebay with controller attached. This now works as expected with the rally wizz add on.
The column links are done, just a matter of getting a mounting bracket done now.
Thanks all for you input and help.
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obfripper
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| posted on 11/2/18 at 05:46 PM |
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Excellent news, I had not come across that particular problem before but it's one to remember.
I didn't have much luck with the tis discs, the 2nd cd will not read properly, i did get the wiring diagram off but the diagnostic flow charts
are unaccessable.
They're uploaded in the above folder for further reference.
Dave
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AntonUK
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| posted on 4/4/18 at 03:34 PM |
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So finally found some time to get this all mounted into the car over the bank holiday weekend.
All works well, noticeable difference in the weight of steering although only tested in the garage so far.
I expected it to be way too light when on max assistance, but it still has a reasonable weight with feel to it.
Also measured current draw when 'dry steering' and it only pulls a peak of 6amps.
Next step is road testing.
 
Description
 
Description
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Phil_1471
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| posted on 4/4/18 at 08:28 PM |
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Not sure if they are built the same, we had this on the rally car and found that if you didn’t weld where the ‘safety’ joint is the plastic/resin
brakes leaving you with no steering, which is fun. Fine for a road car but if you are riding kerbs might cause an issue. Unfortunately don’t have pics
of exactly where I mean.
You can live in a car but can't rally a house
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 5/4/18 at 05:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Phil_1471
Not sure if they are built the same, we had this on the rally car and found that if you didn’t weld where the ‘safety’ joint is the plastic/resin
brakes leaving you with no steering, which is fun. Fine for a road car but if you are riding kerbs might cause an issue. Unfortunately don’t have pics
of exactly where I mean.
I don't think this applies to a road/track car and doing so could prove very dangerous in a crash, most production cars have such a feature
built into the column design and it's there for a very good purpose i.e. to stop the column being rammed through your chest.
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