Hi guys, merry christmas! Sorry I've been off the radar - exams every 6 weeks have taken me out of the garage to say the least.

I've come to the font of all knowledge for some non-locost car advice.

I sold a saxo recently (a month ago) with a couple of obvious issues (engine warning light was on, citroen couldn't find any fault recorded and clutch was heavy). I was honest with the sale and sold the car for what it was worth. No warranty was agreed verbally or written. I confirmed everything with the buyer in writing and he drove it off, texting me that everything was okay once he got home.

Woke up to a text this morning threatening me with small claims court if I don't refund him 50% of the sale because the rear axle needs replacing. There were no signs of rear axle failure when I sold the car, or before the buyer took it to the garage and no advisories on the last MOT or the standard citroen healthcheck. There was no way I could have been aware of the fault at the point of sale.

Does anybody know the legalities of this situation? I have a niggling feeling that any fault that develops within 3 months of sale of a car are assumed to be there before sale and therefore I do have some responsibility to reimburse the buyer but I can't find this rule on the 'net at the minute.

P.S. I have all the information necessary to prove my engine age now on the Dax, and it's going for test in the new year

Check this http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_legalrights.html


Private

If you buy privately, you won't be protected legally if the car doesn't come up to scratch. It's up to you to ask the right questions and have the car thoroughly inspected before you buy.

Safeguards Essentially it's a case of 'Buyer Beware'. As the onus is on you to make sure the car is sound, it's a good idea to get an independent engineer to give the car a thorough mechanical inspection.

Hidden past Then, there are past owners to consider. You could opt for an AA Car Data Check, which will let you know if there's outstanding finance on the car, or even if it has a shady history.

Your legal rights are limited and unscrupulous dealers often masquerade as private sellers, so beware.

The only legal terms that cover a private sale contract are:

the seller must have the right to sell the car
the vehicle should not be misrepresented
it should match its description:
for example, if the ad states that there is a valid MOT, there should be a valid MOT.

Thanks a lot for that jabs.

I think that the 3 month thing only applies of you are a trader. Tell the chap it was sold as seen and you'd be happy to let the court decide who is correct.

Love the new avatar mook

Sale of Car by Private Seller

"You do not have as many legal rights when you buy from a private individual. A private seller only has to describe the car correctly. He is not responsible for faults." - Hants Trading Standard website

"If you buy a car from a private seller or at a car auction for traders, you have fewer rights. The car only has to:

match the description given by the seller
be theirs to sell, eg the car isn't stolen or owned by a finance company because the car loan hasn't been paid off." - DirectGov website

So in summary, tell him to go whistle. As long as you described the car correctly at the time of sale, then you are in the clear. Let him try to take you to the samll claims court if he wants - you will win.

If he goes to court he will have to prove that you knowingly sold him the car with a rear axle fault, which you intentionally covered up, the burden of proof is with the occuser, not the burden of proof of inocence with the 'accused'.

Tell him to bring it on, all he has to loose is about another £600.

I've missed this place!

Hope everyone is well, thanks for all the information.

I am no legal expert, but you say you confirmed everything in writing. So you hopefully have kept copies?
The evidence of the previous MoT and citroen healthcheck should support you. And as long as you are not a trader or mechanic, I am certain you have nothing to worry about.

that aside, I get the feeling small claims courts are largely in favour of individuals when up against big companies, but here I think they really will want proof that you were out to deceive.

as above you've nothing to worry about

assuming he's claiming it has the usial rear axle problem then it should have been quite obvious if its that bad - it ends up with huge abounts of negative camber when the needle rollers fall apart!

quote:

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Originally posted by cd.thomson
Hi guys, merry christmas! Sorry I've been off the radar - exams every 6 weeks have taken me out of the garage to say the least..............

............P.S. I have all the information necessary to prove my engine age now on the Dax, and it's going for test in the new year

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I still have your IVA bars mate! I think I'll buy you a brand spanking new set from Dax, u2u me your address and I'll get that sorted when they open up again.

I'll let you know how I get on

^^ don't worry about the bars, I'm along way of needing them yet....

I'm well on the way to finishing my new shed though:

New_Shed
I've added most of the floor since that pic and the doors are getting welded up now

Another chancer trying it on; it's amazing how many people these days are unable to accept responsibility for their own incompetence.

Ignore any further contact from him, he simply doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Sounds like he wants a bit of cash for Christmas

He is happy with the car or he would be trying to return.

welcome back ^_^

lol @ the chap who bought it sending a text about court. A text XD

A simple phone call, rather than a gutless text message would of been better.

If you drew up a quick contract stating SOLD AS SEEN, your fine. Do not worry.

Tell him to go and boil his head and you'll see him in court, bloody chancers wind me up.

Cheers

Rich

As a private sale he has very little come back. From what you have said you have done more than most in describing the car and recording the transaction. Other than the occasional perversity of the Judge on the day you would be very unlikely to loose in the small claim court and then there is the question of whether a 50% refund is reasonable recompense, after all they have had use of the car in the meantime.

If you want to be proactive and have an address or email very politely write to him saying that he purchased the car in a private sale, that the car was accurately described and that all faults known to you at the time of the sale were identified and that unless you receive court papers in the next 7 days (or may be 10 as it is Christmas) then you will consider the matter closed.

[Edited on 22/12/11 by Brook_lands]

quote:

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Originally posted by cd.thomson
Love the new avatar mook

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brook_lands
As a private sale he has very little come back. From what you have said you have done more than most in describing the car and recording the transaction. Other than the occasional perversity of the Judge on the day you would be very unlikely to loose in the small claim court and then there is the question of whether a 50% refund is reasonable recompense, after all they have had use of the car in the meantime.

If you want to be proactive and have an address or email very politely write to him saying that he purchased the car in a private sale, that the car was accurately described and that all faults known to you at the time of the sale were identified and that unless you receive court papers in the next 7 days (or may be 10 as it is Christmas) then you will consider the matter closed.

[Edited on 22/12/11 by Brook_lands]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Toprivetguns
A simple phone call, rather than a gutless text message would of been better.

If you drew up a quick contract stating SOLD AS SEEN, your fine. Do not worry.

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Caveat Emptor is all you know to know

Wiki Linki

ATB

Simon

I have done all the above, and even told him to get some legal advice before he starts the process but he wont hear it. "It's not about the money its about the principle".

I'd completely agree with him if I'd been aware it had a bad axle, I would have scrapped it instead.

Off to court I go!

I wouldn't worry Craig - the vast majority of folk who come out with that sort of thing don't take it any further.

It's unfortunate for all concerned, but these things happen!

How are you doing Scootz? The white coats managed to make your back any better?

I'm fine thanks.

My backs still a (literal) PITA, but it hasn't worsened any... so reasons to be grateful and all that!

A small point but it hasn't been mentioned yet - Don't negotiate with him!

If you pay him anything at all then that will be seen by a court as an admission of liability and opens you up for a full claim.

Cheers

Mook

Yeah, the communication (SMS based?!) has ceased without me giving an inch. I'm actually not sure if he can serve me at all until he states his claim in writing through the post. The fact that he has immediately threatened me with court action appears to be specifically frowned upon by the Establishment.

Just trying to get some money back for xmas or thinks he overpaid for it.

And what exactly is the problem with the axle?

Did he say anything about it?

As everyone has said, don't worry about it, he can't do anything. I had the same situation with a car i sold last year, bloke bought it then emailed me 2 weeks later saying he had a bill for 1200 quid from mitsubishi for a new cambelt, tensioners and a cam oil seal.... all of which i told him needed doing and listed in the advert, he wanted me to pay half, i politely told him to read the ad again then fcuk off. He threatened court action but i never bothered to reply to any of his emails or texts and never heard anything else from the tit. The car had been mot'd 3 days before he collected it so i was happy there were no problems other than the ones listed in the add.

Ignore him, he'll get bored and go back to watching jeremy kyle.

quote:

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Originally posted by cd.thomson
Yeah, the communication (SMS based?!) has ceased without me giving an inch. I'm actually not sure if he can serve me at all until he states his claim in writing through the post. The fact that he has immediately threatened me with court action appears to be specifically frowned upon by the Establishment.

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About this time last year we decided to get the 106 back on the road, it needed a new rear axle, some rear drum parts and a sticky calliper sorted out. I mention this because the axle cost us £200 refurbed from a scrappy, and for the past 6 years I'd been arguing with the missus that her car looked like it was trying to cock its leg (it really had one wheel at an odd angle, and the past two tests it was scrubbing against the wheel arch)

So if there really is a problem I'm sure you would have seen it (as it would have been like that for some time) and a 50% recompense would really only be a serious offer if you'd sold it for about £250...