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Argon/CO2 supplies - not much in it
coyoteboy - 5/8/15 at 07:56 PM

So I'm set up comfy with a MIG now, have pub gas bottle but suspect I can't get it refilled anywhere local (it's about 10 years old I think) so will probably have to donate it to recycling. So I'm looking at welding gas suppliers and theres Gas-UK.

They're selling 10 litre 200 bar pure argon for £35+VAT, with no rental and no deposit lost if returned within 12 months (pro-rata after that).
It's £25 for CO2 of the same size.

So I'm thinking I'll go with them, but trying to gauge it so I'll run out and need to return it within 12 months.

Those with more experience than I, running about 15 l/min for general welding I've seen it suggested using the litresxbarpress to give total quantity (it's not right due to various factors but seems commonly used) which would suggest 2000litres. That should last about 2 hours of arc time, which is plenty to practice and do some initial fab work.

Thoughts? Anyone know cheaper/better? I'll grab an argon reg and adapter for CO2 in case I need it later.

sdh2903 - 5/8/15 at 08:10 PM

M and s fire protection in Rutherglen will fill pub bottles. Think I paid around 15 quid Lasr time I had my pub bottle filled.

http://www.m-s-fireprotection.co.uk/

Slimy38 - 5/8/15 at 08:12 PM

Pure argon is bad for MIG, CO2 is the traditional but can cause it to spit. A mix of the two is good, typically either 5% or 20% CO2 mix.

The prices are roughly what I pay for Adams gas. I get a 9 litre tank for £30 + VAT. But there's also no rental and no drop in deposit, so you wouldn't be restricted to 12 months.

coyoteboy - 6/8/15 at 01:11 AM

Hmm wasn't aware pure argon would be an issue with normal welding, was going that route as I want to play with alu MIG which requires it and it's listed as fine for normal steels too?

Will check out adams gas and the pub gas option - I'd rather not risk anyones safety filling the pub gas if it's not safe but considering I have the cyl it would be a lot easier!

IanSouthLincs - 6/8/15 at 06:18 AM

I use BOC Gases under their Volkszone offer. I'll dig out details for you when I get home later, or you could hop over to the mig welding forum, plenty of details about it over there. Also there is a guy on there running a shop called Weldequip that will do you a good price for a Wescol regulator, it's what I use. Hope this helps 😀

coyoteboy - 6/8/15 at 11:23 AM

Slimy - Adams gas is charging 85quid plus vat for 9L at 135bar of argon/co2, with a £55 deposit. While the deposit doesn't drop, that's still £140 for a 9L 135bar tank, over £85 for a 10 litre 200 bar tank of pure argon (less for mix) and 50 deposit which would all go in 3 years if you left it that long? Am I missing something here, I feel a bit dense.

[Edited on 6/8/15 by coyoteboy]

coozer - 6/8/15 at 12:47 PM

Regarding refilling the pub bottle.. .take it to the beer wholesaler and they will exchange it rather than a refill. They then send it back to the station who check the dates, retest as required.

I bought a pub bottle from the wholesaler, welded a few things including a trailer, used to to empty 4 kegs of fosters, them did some more welding! £15 it cost me.

theconrodkid - 6/8/15 at 12:51 PM

i have been using pub gas for years,the normal bottle last a long long time,when i used it at my garage i used to refill about twice a year and i did a lot of bodging rusty relics in them days

Slimy38 - 6/8/15 at 04:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Slimy - Adams gas is charging 85quid plus vat for 9L at 135bar of argon/co2, with a £55 deposit. While the deposit doesn't drop, that's still £140 for a 9L 135bar tank, over £85 for a 10 litre 200 bar tank of pure argon (less for mix) and 50 deposit which would all go in 3 years if you left it that long? Am I missing something here, I feel a bit dense.

[Edited on 6/8/15 by coyoteboy]


You've doubled up on the deposit. It's £85 as your first tank, that includes £55 of deposit and £30 for 9l of gas. Your refills are then £30 each, then you get the other £55 back as your deposit at the end of it. (all + VAT).

I didn't add up the pressure though, looks like your tanks are a fair bit higher pressure. Perhaps that's where your litres x pressure might even the prices?

I'm not sure why you've found pure argon good for normal steels. Everywhere I've seen says aluminium or stainless. Typical online quote;

quote:

When MIG/GMAW welding ferrous materials, pure argon is not an ideal shielding gas, as it produces an arc with poor cathodic rooting characteristics, large droplet size and therefore higher levels of spatter. For this reason, Ryval recommends that Mig Shield gases be used.

rusty nuts - 6/8/15 at 04:59 PM

Check out the prices for 20lt bottles, the deposit is higher but the gas works out a lot cheaper. Worth it in the long run.

Slimy38 - 6/8/15 at 05:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Check out the prices for 20lt bottles, the deposit is higher but the gas works out a lot cheaper. Worth it in the long run.


Good point, I have to admit I only saw the need (and the space) for a 9 litre bottle, but after my third refill I wonder whether that was the best thing to do!!

mark chandler - 6/8/15 at 05:45 PM

I used to have a full cougar rented from BOC until I realised the rental costs v use this had a long tube from bottle to welder so I could work anywhere in the garage.

I now have the biggest bottle I could get from Adams gas, it's maybe 1/3 cougar 20 litres sounds about right and it was pumped right up.

coyoteboy - 6/8/15 at 06:54 PM

Ahh I see, Adams gas includes the tank deposit lol, that makes much more sense! Well I got myself a reg to see what I have left in my pub gas cyl and it's chuff all but holds 15lpm at the moment for some tinkering while a replacement comes.

I could possibly get the cyl refilled but I just checked the test-due date and it's.....
1993!
So I don't think I could get someone to refill that in good conscience, if it went bang and injured someone I'd want to hang myself for the sake of 50 quid.

coyoteboy - 7/8/15 at 11:40 AM

Local gas place has offered me an exchange CO2 cyl for £35 and £12 a refil. I'll probably go down this route for the time being and then when I get to chassis welding or anything critical I'll switch out to an Argon 5 mix, I should be more practiced by then too!