gixermark
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 01:27 PM |
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GSXR1000 Clutch switch - effect ?
Hi Guys,
what effect does the clutch switch signal give the ECU on a K5/6 GIxer 1000 ??
Not sure whether its rev related, or map related ??
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r1_pete
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 01:37 PM |
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IIRC the clutch switch alters the ignition map to enable easier starting, you can bypass it by just earthing the starter solenoid, but, the engine
won't start as easily, I think some would even maintain a retarded ignition map without the switch functionality.
If its the same as the TL1000, it also primes the fuel pump, and tells the ECU to expect TPS and CPS signals, if it doesn't get these signals it
gives the error code for the missing sensor.
[Edited on 27/4/12 by r1_pete]
[Edited on 27/4/12 by r1_pete]
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Rod Ends
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 01:38 PM |
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Clutch switch is used on bikes to stop you starting the engine when you are in gear.
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daviep
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 01:41 PM |
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On older bikes the clutch switch is only to bypass the neutral switch so that you can start in gear with the clutch pulled, not sure whether it has
any other functions on newer bikes.
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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gixermark
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 01:59 PM |
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cheers fella's
i gather it does something specific on these motors... on my car i have a switch that you switch on, then off to fool the ecu into thinking its now
'in gear'
i was told it was to limit revs if a bike was started and startionary i.e. to stop you revving it etc... but i imagine it may be more than that.. i.e.
different map possibly... I'm just interested to know
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daviep
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 03:17 PM |
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From the manual found HERE:
The fuel cut-off circuit is incorporated in this ECM in order to prevent over-running of engine. When engine speed reaches 13 300 r/min, this circuit
cuts off fuel at the fuel injector. But under no load, the clutch lever is pulled or the gear position is neutral, this circuit cuts off fuel when
engine speed reaches 12 900 r/min.
E-03, 33, 24: The circuit cuts off the ignition primary current for all spark plugs.
Under no load, the engine can run over 12 900 r/min though the ignition cut-off circuit is effec-tive, which may possibly cause engine damage. Do not
run the engine without load over 12 900r/min at anytime.
Looks like you are correct, it reduces the rev limit. It does also inhibit the starter motor relay.
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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gixermark
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 03:24 PM |
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great - thanks !
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cosmick
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 05:58 PM |
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On newer Suzuki engines, including K5/6 the clutch switch is very important and cannot be ignored. The ECM needs to know when the clutch is DISENGAGED
to allow the starter relay to operate. But more importantly, it needs to know when the clutch is ENGAGED as well. Shorting the two wires together
(Black/Yellow and Black/White) will allow the starter relay to operate but this will affect the ECM by holding back the rev limit and more
importantly, the engine will follow the Neutral fuel and ignition map. The other problem is that if the ECM does not see a clutch operation, it also
holds back the rev limiter. I have spent many hours trying to work out a way to operate the clutch switch so that the starter engages using the clutch
switch wires and then to remain open circuit thereafter. I have now found the solution in a Double Pole Single Throw Starter Button. This will bring
together 2 circuits at the same time and independantly of each other. Here is the link on eBay Large Momentary Push Button
Switch 16A 250V 4Poles DPST | eBay They are only £2.48 each so will not break the bank. I have now used this successfully on 3 BEC cars and
with perfect results.
If it can't be fixed with a hammer then its probably an electrical problem.
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yorkshire-engines
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 06:15 PM |
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Totally agree with cosmick you need the switch and the ecu needs to see it operate
on later k7/k8 it also disables the top injectors after a while if it dont see the switch
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Smartripper
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 06:48 PM |
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I still can't understand why you all don't just get a standard switch and fix it at the clutchpedal...
i did this already with my zx12 and after with my zx14 engine and it works perfect.
press the clutch and u can start in every gear... also the switch is working like the ecu wants it to work.
i used a weather proof microswitch for it with make and break connection easy to install and wire in the loom
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cosmick
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 07:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Smartripper
I still can't understand why you all don't just get a standard switch and fix it at the clutchpedal...
i did this already with my zx12 and after with my zx14 engine and it works perfect.
press the clutch and u can start in every gear... also the switch is working like the ecu wants it to work.
i used a weather proof microswitch for it with make and break connection easy to install and wire in the loom
You are absolutely correct, if you use a clutch switch it will operate exactly how it was designed. Beware though, as you must use a mechanical switch
such as a microswitch. DO NOT use a hydraulic switch as the operation is too slow to switch off when you take your foot off the clutch. Also, with
limited space in the pedal area, some people actually rest their foot on the clutch. Any pressure will switch the clutch switch on. If you have the
ability to fit a clutch switch, do it so that it works on full depression of the pedal.
If it can't be fixed with a hammer then its probably an electrical problem.
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Smartripper
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 07:02 PM |
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yeah your right , use a micro switch that weather proof and keep it close to the end off the clutch pedal and it will work like a charm.
greetings
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gixermark
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| posted on 27/4/12 at 11:58 PM |
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I have a switch n my dash, which I was told to switch on then off once the motor started.... As it let's the ecu think it's in hear
then.... I was just curious/ suspicious what it was actually doing.....
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gixermark
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| posted on 29/4/12 at 09:42 AM |
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Tried it out on track yesterday... It certainly feels better when I remember to hit the switch on/off.... I have. Wiring issue which resulted in dash
display not working for much of the race.. So couldn't see revs often.. But it did feel better.
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cosmick
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| posted on 29/4/12 at 10:00 AM |
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The diiference is not just about the holding back 500 RPM, it is majorly different on ignition timing and fuelling. If you think about it, any engine
does not need to, or want to make power when there is no load on it, i.e. neutral or with the clutch disengaged. Engines are also much more likely to
blow up with no load on them. Hence why Suzuki restrict the power and revs when the clutch is pulled in and/or in neutral.
If it can't be fixed with a hammer then its probably an electrical problem.
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gixermark
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| posted on 29/4/12 at 10:05 AM |
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Makes sense.... It did feel sharper and pull stronger when I remembered to do it...
Would make sense to get someone to wire a time delay/switch to automatically do it on ignition switch on.....
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cosmick
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| posted on 29/4/12 at 10:48 AM |
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if you have got a start button and this switch in the dash area, then using one of the DPST start buttons will be simple to install and yo will not
have to remember to switch anything on or off.
If it can't be fixed with a hammer then its probably an electrical problem.
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gixermark
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| posted on 29/4/12 at 12:19 PM |
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Cheers :-) will look into that
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carse
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| posted on 19/9/14 at 10:59 AM |
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Does anybody know if this issue with the clutch switch changes the map/retards ignition on a GSXR 1000 K4? I've just stumbled across this thread
and am now wondering if it might affect my car.
Thanks.
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=28450
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 20/9/14 at 01:11 PM |
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carse - yes it does, K3 and K4.
K5-6 ECU's also need to see the diode in the sidestand relay for the full power maps.
Why? Well, I've heard that this is due to our American cousins putting the bike in neutral just before the warranty expires and then taking the
engine to destruction point. Result, new motor under warranty. I suspect, however, this to be complete crap.
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carse
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| posted on 20/9/14 at 04:43 PM |
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Thanks for the reply. I didn't build my car (shameful, I know) but have investigated the starter button and it seems as though it has been wired
with a DPST starter button.
As always, plenty of knowledge and help on here.
Cheers.
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=28450
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benners05
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| posted on 22/3/21 at 11:36 AM |
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Hi!
Appreciate this is an old post but I'm struggling with an issue!
For years I've run the car, which has a GSXR 1000 K8 engine, with the clutch switch just grounded out and it has run ok
Having realised it is wrong I've not added a rocker switch to the dash which acts as a clutch switch (switch it on to start switch off when
running) which also goes to the starter relay (wired as the manual for the clutch switch)
My issue now is it runs nice when clutch is on (earthed) but really rough and struggles when loaded when the clutch is off (circuit open)
Does anyone have any experience with this or any advice?
It's got Woolich racing setup with log box and autotune but these are brand new (and what brought the clutch switch issue to light!) so I can
modify the ECU.
Any help greatly appreciated as it's driving me mad!
Ben
[Edited on 22/3/21 by benners05]
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