Thought it best to ask here (still the best place to fish for kit-build knowledge on the net... I'd rather speak to those who've tried 'different' things and have worked out for themselves what works and what doesn't!)
What's the general consensus as to the 'best' option....
Fully Braided?
Copper Piped to Braided Ends?
No Real Difference?
define by what exactly you mean by "best".
cost? feel? longevity? appearance?
I vote for kunifer hard lines with braided flexible lines.
My reasoning being that the hard lines are never gonna expand without applying superhumna pressure hence you get positive pedal feel - I know, someone
VVV will post that flexi hoses don't expand either but I cannot see that myself- there is plastic tube that is gonna expand before a kunifer one
given with same pressure and the fact that flexi lines bend, the inner must change shape = change in volume.
The braided flexi are supperior over rubber hoses as far as expansion goes but have disadvantage since you cannot tell if the inner is damaged. I
have not heard of anyone having had failure of the inner due to ageing.
Cost wise kunifer is cheaper than braided - maybe lighter too, takes less space and probably can be bent into a tighter radius.
not saying ^^^ is correct, but is what I think.
for my brake lines i used that kunifer pipe suposed to be better than copper
My personal preference would be solid lines where they are unlikely to move and keep the flexi's where you need them to move.
Cant see the point in running braided throughout due to;
1. Cost,
2. Need to keep the pressure within the pipe where at all possible. I know braided are supposed to bulge less than std rubber but i bet they do reduce
the pressure a bit if overly long).
Steel pipes with braided/flexibles where necessary.
I wouldn't/didn't use copper purely because of the ease with which the copper pipes can fail via fatigue (due to vibration).
Another vote for Kunifer. Ive been told its a copper alloy and more suited to marine applications - and hence resists corrosion better. Only slight downer is that im sure it work hardens faster than straight copper so only likes to be bent once.
Cheers guys... !
I only ask as I won't have a servo on the car and want the best 'brake-response' possible.
850 (ish) kg and 450 (ish)bhp.
At present, the kit I'm working with has (new) braided hose all the way. I could sell that at a decent price and replace (turning a wee profit?)
with solid lines if it means that I'm going to stop faster.
Just thinking out loud...
I agree that copper pipe is a no-no
but as has been stated Kunifer is the proper, use intended, brake pipe material and is much less prone to failure either through fatigue (like steel
and copper) or corrosion (like steel)
kunifer hard line with braided flexies for me
Was it braided right through as supplied by Ultima? If so id probs leave it, assuming they know their stuff and its std practice on their cars.
In theory braided right through may be OK. Id guess most of our cars are perhaps over braked anyway. The reason why car manufacturers dont do it this way could as much to do with cost as it is to do with brake performance. Could be worth checking the logic with Ultima if you have contact with the factory (or on an Ultima forum).
still don't like the idea of braided throughout, there's no way it doesn't expand as the braid weave stretches, it'll be much less
than rubber but way more than a metal pipe.
[Edited on 16/10/08 by Mr Whippy]
Yep - it's the standard Ultima set-up. Noticed that some guys run servo's on theirs though (and not established if this is the
'norm'... will check).
Thought it best to ask here (still the best place to fish for kit-build knowledge on the net... I'd rather speak to those who've tried
'different' things and have worked out for themselves what works and what doesn't!)
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
still don't like the idea of braided throughout, there's no way it doesn't expand as the braid weave stretches, it'll be much less than rubber but way more than a metal pipe.
[Edited on 16/10/08 by Mr Whippy]
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
still don't like the idea of braided throughout, there's no way it doesn't expand as the braid weave stretches, it'll be much less than rubber but way more than a metal pipe.
[Edited on 16/10/08 by Mr Whippy]
Im with you on this. Personally wouldnt go braided right through, however id be interested to know why Ultima offer this as standard. Im not a brake expert but they may have done some research.
Just had a quick search on the Ultima forum on Pistonheads... not everyone runs servo's!
i decided to run braided throughout as i think it looks better and neater and i happened to have access to a large supply of lines and fittings
through work 
quote:
Originally posted by JAG
I wouldn't/didn't use copper purely because of the ease with which the copper pipes can fail via fatigue (due to vibration).
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by JAG
I wouldn't/didn't use copper purely because of the ease with which the copper pipes can fail via fatigue (due to vibration).
We hear this ^^^ yet I have yet to hear of copper pipe failing for the above reasons if fitted with sensible distance between mounting points.
Fatiguing copper pipes are a myth spouted on forums by numpty’s who come out with b$ll$cks like this like they know it as fact -
quote:
"The problem with the copper is that, being soft is less resistant to the frequent pressure cycles involved in braking and is far more likely to rupture with fatigue than the plated steel bundy tubing. If copper was best for automotive brake lines, then it would be used as OEM by car manufacturers."
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Fatiguing copper pipes are a myth spouted on forums by numpty’s who come out with b$ll$cks like this like they know it as fact -
quote:
"The problem with the copper is that, being soft is less resistant to the frequent pressure cycles involved in braking and is far more likely to rupture with fatigue than the plated steel bundy tubing. If copper was best for automotive brake lines, then it would be used as OEM by car manufacturers."
[Edited on 16/10/08 by Mr Whippy]
Normal rubber covered flexies with Kunnifer pipes. --
quote:
Fatiguing copper pipes are a myth spouted on forums by numpty’s who come out with b$ll$cks like this like they know it as fact
Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, etc....hard lines plus flexis
Ultima...flexis right throughout
Who would be the best to mimic?....I think I know.