I was asked to design a retro fit body for a 7 style car by a client of mine. With the hot weather playing havoc with any resin based work I decided to have a go. The brief was pretty basic - Fully enclosed front arches - Aggressive looking but keep the 7 look.

Here is the start of a 1-10th model. (pics in archive) I seem to have ended up with the love child of a Morgan and the Batmobile They say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so any opinions/ comments are most welcome. The chassis dimensions are taken from the Haynes Roadster Book.
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[Edited on 21/7/13 by Carbonman]


[Edited on 21/7/13 by Carbonman]

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Front and rear wings/arches from the Sylva Star, very retro.

The problem is there isn't much you can do with a 7 that hasn't been tried before and still keep the look. Early days, will keep trying.

I don't think it's different enough.

IMHO the danger with trying to keep the 7 look but update it you either end up with something heavy looking or Dutton esque.

I think you should be a bit more brave and go for something along the lines of the CC Cyclone.

I think Westfield did a decent job with the updated rear.

[Edited on 21/7/13 by rdodger]

Agreed the Cyclone was/is a nice looking car but the cycle wings are a no no.(client not me)

CC Cyclone esque with closed front wheel arches?

You could mix in a bit of the tiger aviator, I quite like the look of it.

I know it was mid-engined but the Dax Kamala (what ever happened to that?) was a design I always liked. I wonder if something like that could be used for some design cues?

All helpful stuff I think the issue is that the simplicity of the original 7 is absolutely right for the car. Anything else, for me anyway just isn't right.
The problem is that the client doesn't see it that way

what about running boards - increase the size of the flat floor and blend in the rear arches a little more.

I think the front wings look like they have ended early. Maybe as another suggested running boards may be the answer. I am a designer by trade and when doing a project such as this eventually you'll hit on something that you just 'know' works as long as you keep at it.

Take a look at the dankervoot for inspiration.

Hi there!

Why not have a look at the YKC Romero for some wing ideas? And the Dodge Prowler for the front perhaps.
I quite like what you have done, but then I always liked the Sylva Leeder - that was a similar faired in wing design!

When it first came out the Midtec Spyder was called by the magazines something along the lines of "a mid engined 7"

Arch/wing design might be worth thinking about


[Edited on 22/7/13 by iank]

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Originally posted by iank
When it first came out the Midtec Spyder was called by the magazines something along the lines of "a mid engined 7"

Arch/wing design might be worth thinking about


[Edited on 22/7/13 by iank]

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Originally posted by wylliezx9r
Take a look at the dankervoot for inspiration.

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Originally posted by mcerd1

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Originally posted by wylliezx9r
Take a look at the dankervoot for inspiration.

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you mean donkervoort

the RS06 has the fully enclosed front arches you need, but needs a bit of work to make it look righ IMHO
[img]http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=938&d=1299606538[/img]

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Originally posted by swanny

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Originally posted by mcerd1

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Originally posted by wylliezx9r
Take a look at the dankervoot for inspiration.

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you mean donkervoort

the RS06 has the fully enclosed front arches you need, but needs a bit of work to make it look righ IMHO
[img]http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=938&d=1299606538[/img]

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love donkervorts generally, but that looks like the results of drunken fumble between an lmp1 and a seven.

(though i'm sure it goes well)

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Eww Eww Ewwwwwwwww

Start again (IMO)

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Originally posted by iank


What about a bugatti type 32 "tank" inspired car
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/cars/bugatti/855/view/bugatti_type_32_tank/

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I'm also for running boards, would make the design flow much better with those front wings. If it's a modern theme fill the space in with some side pods.

i had this discussion with our head of design once about whether he would consider helping out a kit car manufacturer who wanted to do something very similar. his view was that as a design the 7 was so clean and clear trying to update it was a bit of a no-no. a bit like taking the iconic mini and ruining that, which would be just terri... oh hang on....

but, you have a customer who wants it. i'd say the further you can get from a 7 the better it will look. running boards might not match a modern looking enclosed front end, but you do need some ki nd of resultion to that front arch. maybe full wide pods would do the trick?

like the donky, but just not quite so stuck on looking?

why is he so anti (non enclosed arches?)

[Edited on 22/7/13 by swanny]

I quite like this - it alrewady looks more succesfull than many attempts.

As others have said, I'm not too sure about the abrupt end to the cycle wings. May be worth looking at Peugout Le Mans car for some inspiration?

David

Go mad and you eventually end up with something like this:

Funilly enough, I'm working on the design of my '60s clubmans racer at the moment, getting ready to bud a buck. It came to me without any body, so I have free reign to do whatever I fancy, but I have a clear view of what I want, and I have of course to set my design in the correct period.

to me the main area of freedom with a seven is the nosecone (not much overall freedom, but a bit) and, more importantly the tail / rear end.

I used to own the Coldwell Mink, and it is providing the inspiration for my current car. here's an eraly tape line sketch to help me cut the key formers for the buck:


rear lines by alastairbrownuk, on Flickr

(ignore the traces of the sections from my last (still ongoing) project - an early '60s VW / Porsch mid engined GT called the Okrasa special - google it if you have a spare few hours! )

And the rear of the Coldwell:

Mk1.

July-2nd-65-Mallory-rear-lo by alastairbrownuk, on Flickr

Mk2.

Coldwell documentation 018 by alastairbrownuk, on Flickr


This means using cycle wings all round, another visual change to the 'norm'

Should have the key elements of the design resolved over the next week or so

Cheers,

Al

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I have tweaked the design here and there. The client seems to like the way it is going and hopefully I should be able to get some pics posted tomorrow.
That's the hard part of design, trying to give the client what they want, which is not always your own personal taste.

The enclosed front wings are to address the "radius" issues around the suspension areas for IVA apparently.

Nah, the real trick is getting the client to think what you've designed was actually his idea........



Al

Agreed but this one is pretty much set on what he does and doesn't want. Cycle wings being the main one unfortunately.

I'm not a huge fan of the look of most Dutton cars.

But this one, I find it rather tasty:

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Originally posted by ettore bugatti
I'm not a huge fan of the look of most Dutton cars.

But this one, I find it rather tasty:

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How about something a bit more off the wall?

How about the Caparo T1:



Or the Panoz Eperante:


[Edited on 23/7/13 by cjwood23]

Carbonman,

Just my take on it - i like the classic looks of a traditional 7, but generally feel the classic components and materials let it down. So my take on it is to keep the car looking very similar to a traditional car but enhance it using modern materials, i plan to have a full carbon body and modern wheels.

Kind of keeping it similar, but updating it to the 2010's...... some may disagree, but i think subtle changes are the best.

Rob

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Originally posted by b14wrc
Carbonman,

Just my take on it - i like the classic looks of a traditional 7, but generally feel the classic components and materials let it down. So my take on it is to keep the car looking very similar to a traditional car but enhance it using modern materials, i plan to have a full carbon body and modern wheels.

Kind of keeping it similar, but updating it to the 2010's...... some may disagree, but i think subtle changes are the best.

Rob

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Originally posted by cjwood23
How about something a bit more off the wall?

How about the Caparo T1:



Or the Panoz Eperante:


[Edited on 23/7/13 by cjwood23]

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Originally posted by Carbonman

Both great pieces of design, unfortunately they don't really fit the brief of "keeping the seven look"
I would have loved to have been given the freedom to go bonkers.

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Bit of an update. Some may like it and some may hate it, but this is where we are at so far. Acted on some of the feedback on here and extended the front arches and altered the cut off angle. Extended the rear arches to meet the rear panel and added a curved Westy esque boot spoiler.
Added some paint to get a better idea of the overall look.
The plan is to extend the undertray to act as a sort of running board between the arches to better link the two.


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lengthening the wing helps a lot in terms of balance, but I'd look to take a lot of the rear facing flat area out by tapering the wing behind the wheel.

There are 2 reasons I say that:

1. it'll lighten it up visually - it looks too 'clumpy', and a taper would also echo current LeMans car detailing (shame putting headlamps in the leading edge of the wing would be too low), and
2. Whilst I'm no aerodynamicist, I think the current shape will create a huge amount of turbulance behind the wheels which the occupants will head into at speed!


Of course, the client might love it!

Al

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Originally posted by Mistron
lengthening the wing helps a lot in terms of balance, but I'd look to take a lot of the rear facing flat area out by tapering the wing behind the wheel.

There are 2 reasons I say that:

1. it'll lighten it up visually - it looks too 'clumpy', and a taper would also echo current LeMans car detailing (shame putting headlamps in the leading edge of the wing would be too low), and
2. Whilst I'm no aerodynamicist, I think the current shape will create a huge amount of turbulance behind the wheels which the occupants will head into at speed!


Of course, the client might love it!

Al

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Cool. that'll take some of the bulk out of it too.

CFD?????? (Computers the F***ing Designer?)

Al

Joining up the wings with a "running board" might allow better airflow for a proper diffuser. CFD would tell for sure I guess.

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Originally posted by Mistron
Cool. that'll take some of the bulk out of it too.

CFD?????? (Computers the F***ing Designer?)

Al

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Just a thought, have a look at how the BAC Mono does its front arches and blends them, both with different colours and by blending to the body. I think that could look great here!!

Looking forward to seeing the nose treatment - something that goes low and mean like the MNR?
Or a striking opening like a Sylva Star/Leader?

Managed to get a bit of detailing done on the model in between jobs.
Used some carbon sheet offcuts to make a Front Splitter, Rear Diffuser, etc. I have tried to represent ( not very well) the louvered outlet behind the Front Wings. The idea being that these should reduce pressure build-up in the wheel wells as well as directing air along the "side pods" which curve inwards to assist getting in and out, which in turn are ducted into the Rear Diffuser.
Client is due tomorrow, so will have to see what he thinks?
The deal is that I retain the design and manufacturing rights so if you fancy something a bit different or just a model making of your car to put on the mantle piece then please get in touch.

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Re the side pods

Will you be able to stand on them?

Will the exhaust run on top of the side pod?

As it stands at the moment the plan is to have the exhaust mounted in the traditional place but maybe a tad higher up than normal. The side pods are really just an extension of the flat floor so will not be strong enough to be stood on, hence why they curve in where you would get in and out of the car.

Is it not missing a hole in the front to let the air in or is it going to be electric?

It is still a work in progress and simply a representative 1-10th model. The opening can be basically the whole of the flat area of the nosecone, so almost double the size of the average seven if needed depending upon Rad/Engine size.

as an alternative front wing - what about a variation of the original cycle wing - ie as per your current front but taper the rear.

MikeR, from a visual perspective that could well work but as far as aero goes the "sharp" edge is better.

[Edited on 24/7/13 by Carbonman]

Liking that most recent version. Needs big power to pull off the look though

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Originally posted by theduck
Liking that most recent version. Needs big power to pull off the look though

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Just wanted to say thank you for the feedback and comments/suggestions over the last few days.

Managed to get the last bits on the model finished interior, exhaust etc before the client arrived today for a look.
Meeting went well and the client was pretty happy, didn't even request/suggest any changes. Got the green light to start on the full scale version once workload allows. As a bonus I received a phone call from the editor of Complete Kit Car magazine who want's to run an article on the project. So all in all not a bad day.

Thanks again.

Looks really good.
Let us know how it progresses.

If the bodywork is designed to fit the Haynes roadster I would be interested, dependant on price of course.

really like it. There are a million ways to do something like this and I think your way works really well. Will be interested to follow your progress. Good luck.

Further to the outrigger suggested early by someone.


Design Idea

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Originally posted by Carbonman
Just wanted to say thank you for the feedback and comments/suggestions over the last few days.

Managed to get the last bits on the model finished interior, exhaust etc before the client arrived today for a look.
Meeting went well and the client was pretty happy, didn't even request/suggest any changes. Got the green light to start on the full scale version once workload allows. As a bonus I received a phone call from the editor of Complete Kit Car magazine who want's to run an article on the project. So all in all not a bad day.

Thanks again.

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Originally posted by loggyboy
Further to the outrigger suggested early by someone.


Design Idea

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Originally posted by rdodger

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Originally posted by loggyboy
Further to the outrigger suggested early by someone.


Design Idea

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That's beginning to look like a Morgan.

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Originally posted by daveb666

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Originally posted by Carbonman
Just wanted to say thank you for the feedback and comments/suggestions over the last few days.

Managed to get the last bits on the model finished interior, exhaust etc before the client arrived today for a look.
Meeting went well and the client was pretty happy, didn't even request/suggest any changes. Got the green light to start on the full scale version once workload allows. As a bonus I received a phone call from the editor of Complete Kit Car magazine who want's to run an article on the project. So all in all not a bad day.

Thanks again.

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Hi Warren,

looking forward to meeting you on Monday Don't drop the model before then

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Originally posted by cjwood23
Looks really good.
Let us know how it progresses.

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Had requests from people wondering how the model would look with a full cage fitted, so here you are. I know it's not FIA Spec ( it is actually 5mm threaded rod covered in electrical shrink sleeving) but hopefully you get the idea.

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[Edited on 27/7/13 by Carbonman]

That looks awesome, do you make the real thing now in carbon.

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Originally posted by unijacko67
That looks awesome, do you make the real thing now in carbon.

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Thanks, Your design seemed to transform with the added carbon running boards and rear splitter. I wondered about my whole shell in carbon, but that would have to wait as setting it up now is my main job.

Your location says North West, where about's. I am in Todmorden so we may not be a million miles apart.

I'm near Carnforth close to M6 j35, I would love to see some parts being made, the first time I saw infusion on you tube I was well impressed.

Your welcome to pop in if you ever fancy it. I am usually there from 6am until it goes dark seven days a week. Or you could always come on one of the courses I run

Ok, sounds a good excuse for a run out in the kitten, busy work load for the next few weeks. Thanks.

The floods on Monday left me with quite a bit of damaged equipment the Curing Oven being the main thing. So whilst things are being repaired or replaced I thought I may as well make a start on the full scale version as this only requires the use of hand tools. Built the basic shapes using Ply and MDF. Covered that in 25mm Kingspan. Then applied two layers of 450grm CSM. Next is to start skimming with "bog" and building the detail.

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[Edited on 2/8/13 by Carbonman]

I'm intrigued about the carbon floor pan! Would it be a Kevlar weave for added strength?

The Floor will be 2 Layers Carbon - 1 Layer Kevlar - 10mm Closed Cell Foam - 2 Layers E-Glass

The Splitter and Side Skirts will be 2 Layers Carbon - 3mm Closed Cell Foam - 2 Layers E-Glass

Man you pro's make it look easy!

Looking forward to follow the progress

Regards

Fred W B

Ha Ha looks can be deceiving I do a lot of pattern making but this is the first full body I have done. Credit where credits due you are doing some very nice work yourself there Fred.

Made a bit more progress today. Got the Naca Ducts set into the rear of the Bonnet and mocked up the combined Scuttle,Dash and Aero Screen. Or have I accidentally made a very big push up bra ?

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[Edited on 3/8/13 by Carbonman]

[Edited on 3/8/13 by Carbonman]

Aren't NACA ducts meant to be used the other way round - as inlets?

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A NACA duct,[1] also sometimes called a NACA scoop or NACA inlet, is a common form of low-drag air inlet design,
originally developed by the U.S. National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA), the precursor to NASA, in 1945.

When properly implemented, a NACA duct allows air to flow into an internal duct, often for cooling purposes,
with a minimal disturbance to the flow. The design was originally called a "submerged inlet",
since it consists of a shallow ramp with curved walls recessed into the exposed surface of a streamlined body,
such as an aircraft. It is especially favoured in racing car design.

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Yes, but they also work as low pressure outlets as in this application.

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Yes, but they also work as low pressure outlets as in this application

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Perhaps. But the whole bonnet area has been run through CFD Software and the inlet and outlet profiles and sizes work well together. As far as looks are concerned once blended in I think Naca Ducts look pretty good

Had an email from the editor of Complete Kit Car magazine. The feature they are running on the project will be in Septembers edition. Better pull my finger out and make some progress

Looking good, always nice seeing someone trying to do their own thing :-)

Look forward to progress and seeing the final full size design.