A quick one, I have MS, and I am planning to fit hayabusa throttle bodies to the Zetec, that will mean that there is an option of having 8 injectors,... I have read all the words I can about inj position and throttle body length and notice that some setups use 2 inj per pot.

Is this possible with MS?

thanks in advance

Possible but the standard hardware only has 2 injector drivers which limits you to one driver for the head injectors and one driver for the throttle injectors. If you are just running a standard Zetec I can't really see the point in running any additional injectors.

I agree it is a very bog standard zetec, and so is more of a "can it be done" rather than is there any point?

It would make an interesting exercise, and something different from standard,..

thanks

Sure there is something on extraefI web site about staged injection, I'm running duel stage with emerald ecu zetec and gsxr1000 injectors don't know if there is any benefits or just more complicated but as you say its different if its mapped again will ask to do RR runs to see.

[Edited on 3/4/11 by will121]

In MS language it is called staged injection. It is possible to drive more than 2 injector lines from MS, but generally 2 is what you get.

So in your case, you would end up with batch mode on all 4 inner injectors, and the same on the 4 outer injectors, and the MS2 would run the inners up to some RPM and/or TPS and/or MAP limit and then power up both the inner and outer injectors.

The benefits should be improved charge density (better cooling of the air from the outer injectors) and improved mixture homogenisation .

MS1 is a bit limited for staged because you can't bring the outer injectors in gradually (it is all or nothing), if you upgrade to the MS2 daughter card (a good idea for several reasons, and not expensive) then you will get better control of the transition.

The other benefit of all this is that you can use the stock injectors and will get enough fuel without messing around. I ran MS2 with staged injection in the way described above and it worked well (with gsxr1000 TBI's into my gsxr1100w).

I say do it.

Matt

quote:

---

Originally posted by will121
Sure there is something on extraefI web site about staged injection, I'm running duel stage with emerald ecu zetec and gsxr1000 injectors don't know if there is any benefits or just more complicated but as you say its different if its mapped again will ask to do RR runs to see.

[Edited on 3/4/11 by will121]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by matt_gsxr
In MS language it is called staged injection. It is possible to drive more than 2 injector lines from MS, but generally 2 is what you get.

So in your case, you would end up with batch mode on all 4 inner injectors, and the same on the 4 outer injectors, and the MS2 would run the inners up to some RPM and/or TPS and/or MAP limit and then power up both the inner and outer injectors.

The benefits should be improved charge density (better cooling of the air from the outer injectors) and improved mixture homogenisation .

MS1 is a bit limited for staged because you can't bring the outer injectors in gradually (it is all or nothing), if you upgrade to the MS2 daughter card (a good idea for several reasons, and not expensive) then you will get better control of the transition.

The other benefit of all this is that you can use the stock injectors and will get enough fuel without messing around. I ran MS2 with staged injection in the way described above and it worked well (with gsxr1000 TBI's into my gsxr1100w).

I say do it.

Matt

---

When I investigated this, the more I read about it the more obvious it became.

The Greame Bell (4 stroke tuning) suggests an easy 5% power improvement and those motorcycle manufacturers don't add weight and complexity unless there is a real benefit.

ms2 daughter card upgrade is only $96 and yields other benefits (loads and loads of little improvements over MS1).



Matt

quote:

---

Originally posted by HowardB

quote:

---

Originally posted by will121
Sure there is something on extraefI web site about staged injection, I'm running duel stage with emerald ecu zetec and gsxr1000 injectors don't know if there is any benefits or just more complicated but as you say its different if its mapped again will ask to do RR runs to see.

[Edited on 3/4/11 by will121]

---

This sounds like the kind of thing that I was thinking of, so you have both the standard Zetec inj, and also the ones in the TBs? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by matt_gsxr
The Greame Bell (4 stroke tuning) suggests an easy 5% power improvement and those motorcycle manufacturers don't add weight and complexity unless there is a real benefit.
Matt

---

this sounds more interesting the more you post, especially the 5% bit,.. I had thought that I might be able to use the second set to give better efficiency as well as better power, the idea being that fuel injected further out would be better mixed by the time it arrived at the engine,..

keep it coming, this is all fantastic stuff

quote:

---

Originally posted by will121

quote:

---

Originally posted by HowardB

quote:

---

Originally posted by will121
Sure there is something on extraefI web site about staged injection, I'm running duel stage with emerald ecu zetec and gsxr1000 injectors don't know if there is any benefits or just more complicated but as you say its different if its mapped again will ask to do RR runs to see.

[Edited on 3/4/11 by will121]

---

This sounds like the kind of thing that I was thinking of, so you have both the standard Zetec inj, and also the ones in the TBs? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

---

Yes that's exactly what I've done will try get some pictures up

---

get a ms3 with the ms3x card they can run 8 injectors sequentially with no modifications.

if you already have a megasquirt with the v3 board all you need to buy is the new ms3 daughter card ms3x board and the new bigger case.

my set-up was like this (before I took it off to put a turbo on!).
mock-up;


then final version.


Air_box_internals



Air_box_installed


Outer injectors were cbr1000rr 2004 with rail, respaced by about 15mm in the middle.
Seemed to work well.

I even managed some ram-air with that airbox pipe to front.

Ended up making a different air-temp sensor (from a maplin thermistor) as the GSXR600 one was slow to respond to temperature changes. Also I insulated the airbox for heat.


Some info in this thread.




Maybe a bit more information in the blog. http://matt-phoenix.blogspot.com/


I never got around to the rolling road, but it seemed to keep up with the traffic
Only putting a turbo on because I fancied the challenge.


Matt


edited to say, sorry, pictures don't show inner injectors. THese are in the standard location for the gsxr1000 bodies. I originally ran gsxr1000 (same as 600 and 1300) injectors, but changed them to smaller Honda Civic (can't remember engine code) injectors as this works better with staged. Didn't make a big difference to running, but fuel map was smoother as the old MS staged injection code assumed larger outer than inner injectors. I should really have got it on a rolling road to see what bhp it was making, but I'm too tight for that.

[Edited on 8/4/11 by matt_gsxr]