Hi All,
I'm hoping one you can help, Im trying to start my car for the first time but it wont fire into life. I get alot of coughs and splutters through both intake and exhaust but it wont run. I have fuel out of injectors and sparks are fine, i guess its timing or fuel qty thats the issue.

Would someone be so kind to look at the attached config and datalog to tell me what I should be looking at?

spec
MS2 running extra code
Zetec 1.8
GSXR TB's
ST170 injectors
Wasted spark direct from ECU


Downloads
MSQ:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4wOn8nnkCwOdmU3NFFlbXl2eWM

Datalog:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4wOn8nnkCwOLWpEMGowU3hMQTQ

do you have a good 12v to coil and ecu. i had a problem much the same as yours i had a good 12v before cranking but when cranking lost voltage . do you have your coil wired to wright way .

if its coughing out the inlet then there is a high chance that your angle on the trigger wheel is either mechanically in the wrong place or incorrect in the software. also check your ignition settings

Trigger wheel is the standard drillings in the Zetec Flywheel with std VR sensor.

I tried swaping the coils over but is just seemed to fire against itself and locked the engine.

If it's coughing and banging you have all the right ingredients, just not at the right times. Most likely the spark timing.

As suggested, check that you have a good 12v supply to the centre of the coil pack (assuming you're using a Ford type) and to the injectors.

Check that your timing wheels is set correctly, not 90' out or anything silly like that.

Check that you have the correct type of timing wheel setup in MS, ie 36-1, 36-2, etc.

Check that you have the coil wired the right way around. No need to change the LV wiring, just swap the HT leads from 1 & 4 to 2 & 3 (assuming Zetec engine, others may be different).

If none of that works I'd need to look at it!

Chris

Hmmm... it may be a voltage issue... datalog shows seems to drop to around 9v during cranking

No Starty...


[Edited on 13/7/12 by AntonUK]

Thats pretty common,

Go on our mtechmaps.com website and fownload a map for our V4 ecu whcih runs the same software, or drop me and email at mtech and I get send one over direct.

Cheers
Matt

Checl your fuel system is also set up correctly.

Regulator on the return, after the rail, set to around 3bar. This round the wrong way would show a similar effect, have seen it before...

Matt

Thanks have signed up so enable download.

Fuel feeds are correct (although they were not at first. DOH!)

if the zetec was an auto boxed version and is now a manual, the crank position sensor housing is different and needs changing.

Just something I'd through in to the mix

Rich



[Edited on 13/7/12 by RichardK]

I have the correct mount and tooth logger looks correct to me.

I seem to have got it running... not sure how but it came after turning the R56 back about 16 turns rather than the 6 or so i had done before to retet the to zero.

although it is VERY rough and wont rev... it will die after a few seconds

I have attached my log and tune... can anyone shed some light on what i should be looking at next?

it appears to me that the RPM keeps droping to zero?

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4wOn8nnkCwONmVpVDFIS0J3blU

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4wOn8nnkCwOa21RWmdKSTZTZms

EDIT: getting the hang of the data logs now... seems i have a lost sync reason 5... need more time with the R56 then...

[Edited on 16/7/12 by AntonUK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AntonUK
Hi All,
I'm hoping one you can help, Im trying to start my car for the first time but it wont fire into life. I get alot of coughs and splutters through both intake and exhaust but it wont run. I have fuel out of injectors and sparks are fine, i guess its timing or fuel qty thats the issue.

Would someone be so kind to look at the attached config and datalog to tell me what I should be looking at?

spec
MS2 running extra code
Zetec 1.8
GSXR TB's
ST170 injectors
Wasted spark direct from ECU


Downloads
MSQ:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4wOn8nnkCwOdmU3NFFlbXl2eWM

Datalog:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4wOn8nnkCwOLWpEMGowU3hMQTQ

---

Thanks but i do try and make it as DIY as possible... will keep it in mind tho for final tuning.

Update...

I have tried adjusting the VR trims while the engine is running and it makes no difference bar its dies if you take R56 too far.

Have also tried enabling noise filtering but that also makes no difference either.

any ideas?

added a 10k resistor to the VR sensor and its no different unfortunately

this is my tooth log

Put a timing light on No1 and see what angle it is firing at...

Or trailer it down to us and have it all fully mapped

Matt

I'm fairly confident that timing is correct. I think my issue is more down to noise, but I have no idea how to get rid of it ATM.

No1 rule of tuning - assume nothing

Are you using a ford twin coil pack and wasted spark? Your original post sounded like wrong coil firing.

I had this and ended up fitting a few sizes of resistors in a trial to find the right resistor size. I'll see what I can find.

[Edited on 20/7/12 by omega 24 v6]

Tooth log looks fine, I suspect either it's mis-timing/fueling or the ingnition hardware is unhappy.

quote:

---

Originally posted by tasmod
Are you using a ford twin coil pack and wasted spark? Your original post sounded like wrong coil firing.

---

From looking at the msl data log, you are getting sync errors (yes, I know you know this).

sync_error = 5 is due to the tooth gap after the missing tooth appearing to be longer than 3/4 of the missing tooth gap (it should be 1/2 of the missing tooth). I attach the code at the bottom if you are into those things (it is in ms2_extra_ign_in.c, not sure what version you have but this seems to be fairly stable across different software versions).

If I were you I would run a tooth log when the engine is "running". TunerStudio-->Diagnostics-->Composite logger. The most recent version of tunerstudio is good at reading these in (although excel is good too) it might give you some clues. Alternatively if you have a good oscilloscope then you could look at the VR signal and the output of the VR conditioner .

Not sure whether you have noise on your VR sensor, or that you are firing at the wrong point (which might cause rapid changes in engine speed and hence induce lost triggers). Have you configured the Lambda properly? Super weak running (which it indicates) and wasted spark can give you some nice backfires and such.

Matt

/************ missing tooth wheel & missing and 2nd trigger wheel mode *************/
SPKMODE4:
if ((flash4.spk_config & 0xc) == 0x8) {
goto SPKMODE4B;
}
/* this is the "find missing" step */
// look for missing tooth (subtract last tooth time from this tooth
// count taking overflow into account, and then multiply previous
// tooth time by 1.5 and see

if (firstsync_iter == 0) {
/* Here we will look for missing */

temp1 = tooth_diff_last + (tooth_diff_last >> 1);

if (tooth_diff_this > temp1) {
firstsync_iter = 1;
}
return;
} else if (firstsync_iter == 1) {
/* tooth after what we thought was missing, lets make sure this one is short
* on the first sync, we miss tooth #1, but that's ok as long as we catch it next time
* split this into 2 operations so compiler doesn't call subroutine
*/
temp1 = (tooth_diff_last >> 1); /* 1/2 of last value */
temp1 = temp1 >> 1; /* 1/4th of last value */

temp1 = tooth_diff_last - temp1; /* 3/4ths of last value */

if (tooth_diff_this >= temp1) {
/* this wasn't really the missing tooth... */
firstsync_iter = 0;
return;
}

firstsync_iter = 2;
flagbyte4 |= flagbyte4_found_miss;
set_count = 1;
} else if (firstsync_iter == 2) {
if (tooth_no == 0) { // this should not happen, so reset
outpc.syncreason = 1;
ign_reset(); // note that this sequence of setting reason, resetting ign and incrementing counter is
return;
}


if ((tooth_no == last_tooth) ||
(((flash4.spk_config & 0xc) == 0xc) && (tooth_no == mid_last_tooth))) {
/* this means we should have the last tooth here, so check for missing */
temp1 = tooth_diff_last + (tooth_diff_last >> 1); /* 1.5 * last tooth */

if (tooth_diff_this <= temp1) {
// WANT TO MODIFY THIS
firstsync_iter = 0;
flagbyte4 &= ~flagbyte4_found_miss;
outpc.syncreason = 2;
ign_reset();
return;
}

flagbyte4 |= flagbyte4_found_miss;
set_count = 0;
}
}

if (tooth_no == 1) {
/* check to make sure this tooth is < 3/4th's of last tooth
* If it's not, we lost sync...
*/

temp1 = (tooth_diff_last >> 1);
temp1 = temp1 >> 1;

temp1 = tooth_diff_last - temp1;

if (tooth_diff_this >= temp1) {
/* lost sync */
firstsync_iter = 0;
outpc.syncreason = 5;
ign_reset();
return;
}
}

if (flagbyte4 & flagbyte4_found_miss) {

flagbyte4 &= ~flagbyte4_found_miss;

// found the missing tooth
if ((flash4.spk_config & 0xc) == 0xc) {
if (!(flagbyte1 & flagbyte1_trig2active) && !(synch & SYNC_SYNCED)) {
goto common_wheel;
}
}

synch |= SYNC_SYNCED;

if (synch & SYNC_FIRST) {
syncfirst();
}

outpc.status1 |= status1_syncok; /* have sync */

if ((flash4.spk_config & 0xc) != 0xc) {
tooth_no = set_count;
} else {
if (flagbyte1 & flagbyte1_trig2active) {
tooth_no = set_count;
flagbyte1 &= ~flagbyte1_trig2active;
} else {
tooth_no += flash4.No_Miss_Teeth;
}
}
}
goto common_wheel;