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poor runing on 1st start
t11 - 11/8/12 at 06:11 AM

Hi all, after the 1st start up yesterday i seem to have a problem !
Running gear as follows....Toyota 3sge 2ltr 16v suzuki hayabusa 1300 throttle bodies wasted spark (ford coil pack) 36/1 trigger wheel ms2 extra, on the engine the injectors are in the head so useing the toyota fuel rail, as you look at it feed to the rail is on the right and return on the left where the regulator with vac take off is (I understand you leave this open and blank off the vac pipes on the throttle bodies) fuel tank is up front with high pressure pump pushing fuel back into the filter (audi A4 v6) as it has in out and return) then onto the fuel rail there is no fuel regulator fitted, so it starts very lumpy and then dies.....any thoughts

matt_gsxr - 11/8/12 at 09:22 AM

Well if it starts that is a good thing.

What fueling values do you have in the map?
Do you have any means of knowing whether it is rich or lean?
Have you tried fiddling with the fueling to get it running better?

Or, have you powered the MS from a supply that is only high when cranking (a mistake I made)?


Sounds like it is pretty close.

matt_gsxr - 11/8/12 at 09:37 AM

Other thoughts:

Is the sync good? if you do a log then you can look at sync errors in with MLV. You get the odd error whilst cranking, but after that it should be good. If you don't have a good sync then you can look at it with the tooth logger tool (in TunerStudio or save a file and look in MLV).

Lumpy idle. If sync is good, and fueling is about right, then the other source of lumpy idle will be imbalance between the throttle bodies. You can tune this (with appropriate kit) once you can get a high idle. Bike TB's are quite tricky for this, and the ones you have are the biggest out there.

Posting up a log might help.

Are all the cylinders doing the same thing?

deezee - 11/8/12 at 09:52 AM

Have you got a AFR guage / MS2 readout available. This would help to see whats going on. But until you see the ignition and fuelling, its just guesswork.

t11 - 11/8/12 at 11:46 AM

hi People...thanks for the reply's forgot to say in the above when I said it runs thats wishful thinking, it starts very poor tickover if you try to open the throttle it spits and back fires through the throttle bodies, apart from double checking the cam timing (as its a rebuilt engine) and the position of the trigger wheel and vr sensor which is spot on I'am flying blind hear, this is my first venture into ecu's and throttle bodies .............

omega 24 v6 - 11/8/12 at 12:27 PM

Spitting is usually a sign of a waek mixture or incorrect spark/or valve timing.

t11 - 11/8/12 at 01:01 PM

Hi checked the valve timing this morning number 1 on tdc cam pulley marks in the right place and marks on crankshaft pulley line up with mark on lower cambelt case and vr sensor in the right place as per above...so mixture then ?...........

matt_gsxr - 11/8/12 at 07:36 PM

Add some more fuel via requ fuel and see if it helps. You are going to enjoy this.

t11 - 11/8/12 at 07:53 PM

Hi Matt.......not too sure about that but will have a go tomorrow morning..........

DIY Si - 11/8/12 at 09:11 PM

Also fitting a fuel reg will help. Without it, the fuel pressure may be too high and that can cause a good few issues.

Do you have a wide or narrow band sensor fitted? That can help a lot with both initial set up and fine tuning.

t11 - 12/8/12 at 06:12 AM

Hi I did wonder about the fuel regulator but I did read somewhere to leave it open ?...the toyota fuel rail has one on the return end, I did connect it up to the throttle body's vac pipes but it made no differance. I'am using tuner studio so where do I find "get more fuel"........

DIY Si - 12/8/12 at 08:57 PM

Do you have the return plumbed in from the fuel reg? I'm not sure I've understood your set up right or not.

t11 - 13/8/12 at 05:43 AM

Hi Yes return is from the regulator end of the fuel rail, made a few change's in tuner studio yeaterday and now it won't start at all !....could do with someone with more idear on these things to have a look for me ..........

DIY Si - 13/8/12 at 08:32 AM

Is your map a known good one, or are you starting from scratch?

If it won't start at all, just undo the changes you did!!

BaileyPerformance - 13/8/12 at 11:06 AM

quote:
Originally posted by t11
Hi Yes return is from the regulator end of the fuel rail, made a few change's in tuner studio yeaterday and now it won't start at all !....could do with someone with more idear on these things to have a look for me ..........


Hi Gordon,

If you engine is new try to avoid too many attempts at starting it if you have no idea of the fuelling, a new engine needs to be set at a fast idle for 20mins or so to bed in the cams and running rich may also do harm as it is possible to glaze the bores (preventing the rings breaking in). This can happen with less than an hour running is way out.

Make sure you have crap mineral oil in the engine.

Leave the vac pipe off the fuel regulator. Would be worth checking the fuel pressure as it does sound like its lean as soon as you open the throttle. (as suggested)

As we said you now need to get the car setup, the car does not need to be running to get it mapped - we do all that for the same fixed price of £250. Are the dates i give you any good?

Cheers Dale.

t11 - 13/8/12 at 05:31 PM

Hi as far as I know its a base map....what I did in Tuner studio is clcik on engine constants the click box required fuel, that told me the engine displacement is 350cid ? so I put in 2000 and clicked on cc...below that injector flow = 30 and air/fuel 14.7 the last 2 items I did not change, after that it did not start.....so it does seem to be lack of fuel but do not know how to change it to get it running,.....ok on the date Dale but need to find a toe vehicle to get me there its a long way from Deal, and its only a re-built top end(another head so ground in valves shimed new head bolts and gaskets, just would like to see it running for piece of mind

GreenHornet - 29/3/13 at 08:16 PM

I'm starting off into ECU territory like you so I know your frustration.

Req_fuel needs all values in either cubic inches or cc's. these are
engine capacity
Number of injectors
Injector flow rate
AFR

The ECU will then give you a fuel figure.

My zetec is the same at the moment. Touch my throttles and she dies. Doesn't help having a misfire.