Hi

Got connection between laptop and ecu (Microsquirt) in Tuner studio but now can't get past the opening setup conflict

MAFMAP enabled when MAF is not

what the hell have I done ? I've now disconnected virtually everything from the relay board so that it's basically just a powered up ecu with no sensors attached

How do I proceed ?

What sensors are you using?
MAF or MAP or both?

I'm not that familliar with microsquirt but if its anything like the megasquirt you need to go through an initial setup to tell it what to expect and put some sane values in

Not sure if you got the unit with a pre programmed setup or not ??
if you did get it from a working machine - download the current setup from the ECU and save it with a meaningful name

If its a virgin unit - your going to have to tell it everything it needs to know and get that info on there

Time to dig into the manual and digest (or blag someone local to come over and get it setup...but then wheres the fun in that?)

I know the pain as I knew bugger all about ECU's and fuel injection before I went with Megasquirt - it took lots of reading to sink in for me

Regards
Rob

quote:

---

Originally posted by robocog
What sensors are you using?
MAF or MAP or both?

I'm not that familliar with microsquirt but if its anything like the megasquirt you need to go through an initial setup to tell it what to expect and put some sane values in

Not sure if you got the unit with a pre programmed setup or not ??
if you did get it from a working machine - download the current setup from the ECU and save it with a meaningful name

If its a virgin unit - your going to have to tell it everything it needs to know and get that info on there

Time to dig into the manual and digest (or blag someone local to come over and get it setup...but then wheres the fun in that?)

I know the pain as I knew bugger all about ECU's and fuel injection before I went with Megasquirt - it took lots of reading to sink in for me

Regards
Rob

---

Well dunno what I did but it let me add all the sensors to the relay board and didn't throw any woblies when I powered up between each connection.

I tried the starter but it didn't want to start as you say there are probably many settings way way wrong . Various boxes were flashing up on the results chart ... algorithm invalid etc etc


my basic setup is

Fiat Twin cam 1585cc

Suzuki GSXR 600 K6/7 TBs modified to remove secondary injectors and throttles using standard brown injectors which are apparently 225 l at 3bar

Edis with the vr sensorfinding the missing tooth 90degrees (9 teeth) BTDC (how do I set the tuner studio to fire 10 deg BTDC)

GM IAT and clt sensors

Suzuki TPS and MAP

Bosch Fidle valve

Innovate LCI with G5 gauge

Microsquirt v3 (MS2 v3 I think) pre loaded code whatever that means .

Efi Analytics tuner studio


Description


Description

[Edited on 6/5/13 by Valtra]

[Edited on 6/5/13 by Valtra]

For fixed 10 degrees, go to basic setup, then more ignition options, then in the first box select fixed timing, then in the box below labeled "timing for fixed advance" make sure it is 10 (or whatever you want your fixed timing to be)

Dave

quote:

---

Originally posted by Valtra
Edis with the vr sensorfinding the missing tooth 90degrees (9 teeth) BTDC (how do I set the tuner studio to fire 10 deg BTDC)

---

Thanks guys

Once I can get it running tuner studio should be able to shape a suitable map for me , I just need it to cough into life

[Edited on 7/5/13 by Valtra]

Control algorithm changed this from Maff/Map to Alfa n to clear the conflict coming up on tuner studio now have a loud buzzing that seems to come from either the relay board as if a relay is in spasm or is it just the injectors ?....either way it still won't start . any suggestions ????

Now that you have changed from MAP to Alpha-N, your tables may well be incorrect, on the fuel load side for Alpha-N you need 0-100, MAP would be different.

To check if it is your injector that is buzzing, put the tip of a screwdriver on the injector body, and then press the end of the handle into your ear, you will soon hear if it is the injector.

Are you getting any error messages in tuner studio?

If possible, you could go back to MAP (were you using MAP/MAF?) use just MAP, and then if there are any config errors, go into tuner studio, communication, mini terminal, then turn ignition off and then back on again and it should tell you what is wrong with your config.

I did have that high pitched screeching noise coming from my set up the other day when wiring it in, can't recall what was wrong though.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave_424
Now that you have changed from MAP to Alpha-N, your tables may well be incorrect, on the fuel load side for Alpha-N you need 0-100, MAP would be different.

To check if it is your injector that is buzzing, put the tip of a screwdriver on the injector body, and then press the end of the handle into your ear, you will soon hear if it is the injector.

Are you getting any error messages in tuner studio?

If possible, you could go back to MAP (were you using MAP/MAF?) use just MAP, and then if there are any config errors, go into tuner studio, communication, mini terminal, then turn ignition off and then back on again and it should tell you what is wrong with your config.

I did have that high pitched screeching noise coming from my set up the other day when wiring it in, can't recall what was wrong though.

---

there is no control for simply Map just

Map/Maff
speed density
percent baro
Alpha-n
MAF
ITB

where do I go with that ?

Yep, sounds like a plan.

After some searching, is it low battery, like when you are trying to start a car with low battery and all you get is the fast clicking noise.

That may well have been my problem when I got the buzzing, I was having low battery problems because I only have 2 motorbike batteries.

Have you got another car you can jump off?

Speed density is just MAP

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave_424
Speed density is just MAP

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave_424
Yep, sounds like a plan.

After some searching, is it low battery, like when you are trying to start a car with low battery and all you get is the fast clicking noise.

That may well have been my problem when I got the buzzing, I was having low battery problems because I only have 2 motorbike batteries.

Have you got another car you can jump off?

---

Ok

now set on speed density

how do the rest of the settings need to be

squirts per cycle 2?
injector staging ?
engine type odd or even fire ?

2 squirts per cycle
Alternating
most engines are even fire so go with that.

One question, do you have a tune loaded? if you go to basic setup, fuel VE table, do you have a fuel table with a load of numbers?

Dave

Looks like the fidle relay so perhaps not crucial to getting the car started without Fidle but have I just transposed some wires on setup that is causing the relay to rattle and groan ?

just disconnected the Fidle valve and the relay still buzzes I'll see if I can find it in tuner studio setup

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave_424
2 squirts per cycle
Alternating
most engines are even fire so go with that.

One question, do you have a tune loaded? if you go to basic setup, fuel VE table, do you have a fuel table with a load of numbers?

Dave

---

Sorry, but do you have a MAP sensor installed?

If not, then you will have to use Alpha-N (Only just realised that you were using microsquirt)

If I was going to set up your ECU then these are the steps/settings I would use:

Engine constants
- Use the required fuel calculator
- Choose Alpha-N
- 2 squirts per cycle
- Alternating injection staging
- Even fire

More engine constants
- Primary fuel load Alpha-n
- No secondary fuel load
- Multiply MAP
- Don't include AFR target
- Primary ignition load Alpha-n
- No secondary ignition load

Injector characteristics
- 1
- 0.2
- 75
- 25.6
- 66
- Different bank 2 settings off

Don't know ignition settings for EDIS, you probably have an understanding

Ego control off

Cranking settings
- 300RPM
- Flood to clear 80%
- Every event

That should get you started.

What fuel load % numbers do you have? 0-100 or 30ish-100?

Note that that is only for high impedance injectors

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave_424
Sorry, but do you have a MAP sensor installed?

If not, then you will have to use Alpha-N (Only just realised that you were using microsquirt)

If I was going to set up your ECU then these are the steps/settings I would use:

Engine constants
- Use the required fuel calculator
- Choose Alpha-N
- 2 squirts per cycle
- Alternating injection staging
- Even fire

More engine constants
- Primary fuel load Alpha-n
- No secondary fuel load
- Multiply MAP
- Don't include AFR target
- Primary ignition load Alpha-n
- No secondary ignition load

Injector characteristics
- 1
- 0.2
- 75
- 25.6
- 66
- Different bank 2 settings off

Don't know ignition settings for EDIS, you probably have an understanding

Ego control off

Cranking settings
- 300RPM
- Flood to clear 80%
- Every event

That should get you started.

What fuel load % numbers do you have? 0-100 or 30ish-100?

---

Oh okay then, what does the map sensor read when ignition is turned on, should be very near 100kpa

Those injector numbers are fine.

So if you are getting spark, and getting fuel injected then it should run.

Have you set up the fuel pressure up to the correct pressure?

If so then it should start, how close have you got it to starting so far? one thing I encountered was that it would cough into life from the cranking settings, but when RPM went over the cranking threshold and it wanted to run on the fuel table, it would die. So I selected the group of cells around the idle area and added about 10 to the numbers, after that it started and idled fine.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave_424
Oh okay then, what does the map sensor read when ignition is turned on, should be very near 100kpa

Those injector numbers are fine.

So if you are getting spark, and getting fuel injected then it should run.

Have you set up the fuel pressure up to the correct pressure?

If so then it should start, how close have you got it to starting so far? one thing I encountered was that it would cough into life from the cranking settings, but when RPM went over the cranking threshold and it wanted to run on the fuel table, it would die. So I selected the group of cells around the idle area and added about 10 to the numbers, after that it started and idled fine.

---

No spark !!!!!

where do I start looking . swap Vr sensor terminals ?

It drops back down because you don't have a check valve in your fuel line, but if you do and fuel pressure drops like a rock then that points to a stuck injector.

4 bar fuel pressure is pretty high, you need 3 bar, but that might come down as you get vacuum from then the engine starts.

What I would do is disconnect the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator and then set fuel pressure to 3 bar.

You should be reading the MAP sensor from the gauge in tunerstudio because this is what the ECU sees the map MAP is.

You are using EDIS as your spark output right?

is everything wired into EDIS like this



also these settings

Settings/MegaTune

In TunerStudioMS, set:

Trigger offset = 0° (this will vary slightly, depending on the wheel/pickup configuration),
Ignition Input Capture to 'Rising Edge', ('Falling Edge' for MicroSquirt® only if using the VR input circuit - not recommended),
Cranking Trigger to 'Calculated',
Coil Charging Scheme to 'EDIS',
Spark Output to 'Going High (Inverted)', ('Going High (Inverted)' for MicroSquirt).
Trigger Wheel Teeth to '0' (zero)

Set the predictor algorithm option to 'last interval'.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave_424
It drops back down because you don't have a check valve in your fuel line, but if you do and fuel pressure drops like a rock then that points to a stuck injector.

4 bar fuel pressure is pretty high, you need 3 bar, but that might come down as you get vacuum from then the engine starts.

What I would do is disconnect the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator and then set fuel pressure to 3 bar.

You should be reading the MAP sensor from the gauge in tunerstudio because this is what the ECU sees the map MAP is.

---

There should be a dedicated MAP gauge, right click on a gauge, sensor input 1, Engine MAP

Are you getting an RPM signal whilst cranking? that is step 1

I don't know if using EDIS gives you a tooth log, I expect it does, if so, do a tooth log whilst cranking by going to diagnostics, and selecting tooth logger from the drop down menu. Click start and crank for a few seconds.

You are looking for a load of mid length bars, and then one that is twice the size of the others. If you get one twice the size and then another one right after that is half way between the big bar and the little bars, your VR sensor is connected the wrong way round.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave_424
There should be a dedicated MAP gauge, right click on a gauge, sensor input 1, Engine MAP

Are you getting an RPM signal whilst cranking? that is step 1

I don't know if using EDIS gives you a tooth log, I expect it does, if so, do a tooth log whilst cranking by going to diagnostics, and selecting tooth logger from the drop down menu. Click start and crank for a few seconds.

You are looking for a load of mid length bars, and then one that is twice the size of the others. If you get one twice the size and then another one right after that is half way between the big bar and the little bars, your VR sensor is connected the wrong way round.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave_424
You are using EDIS as your spark output right?

is everything wired into EDIS like this



also these settings

Settings/MegaTune

In TunerStudioMS, set:

Trigger offset = 0° (this will vary slightly, depending on the wheel/pickup configuration),
Ignition Input Capture to 'Rising Edge', ('Falling Edge' for MicroSquirt® only if using the VR input circuit - not recommended),
Cranking Trigger to 'Calculated',
Coil Charging Scheme to 'EDIS',
Spark Output to 'Going High (Inverted)', ('Going High (Inverted)' for MicroSquirt).
Trigger Wheel Teeth to '0' (zero)

Set the predictor algorithm option to 'last interval'.

---

The picture I was referencing to is here about half way down the page

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/EDIS.htm

So there is your problem. Where are you getting your 12v from for the EDIS, megasquirt won't turn on the fuel pump without seeing an RPM whilst cranking.

Swap over your VR sensor wires and see if that does it.

Note that EDIS will happily make a spark without your megasquirt ECU, so it is all in the EDIS wiring.

Check that you are getting 12v on the positive whilst cranking.

Not sure where those settings are, I just copied it from another web page, but like I said, megasquirt has nothing to do with the EDIS module creating a spark, it just changes the timing.

How much of a gap do you have between your VR sensor and the trigger wheel, about 1mm should be fine. EDIS needs an AC voltage of over 0.5v from the VR sensor.

Basically, as long as EDIS has a good power and ground and your coilpack has good power to the centre pin which I assume it does. Then the problem lies in the VR sensor signal.

Rigged up a vr plug crossover and it struck up briefly when doing a tooth log


now we are getting somewhere .Thanks for all your help so far

Okay great, if you are getting a cranking RPM, then you should be getting a spark from the EDIS module.

Now I've swapped the VR cables over, the car quite happy to idle lumpily once tickled for a couple of minutes . Running seriously rich I think and the new exhaust bandage smoking like a wet bonfire covered in diesel. so tomorrow I can check the locked timing and trim accordingly before reverting to table, then let loose with VE analyse to get some better readings and running . I can sort out the fidle valve at a later date .

A truly heart felt thanks to all contributions so far, especially Dave for metaphorically holding my hand all afternoon you're a star

SUCCESS! one thing I have read about the auto tune feature which is what I think you are talking about, is that people only recommend it when you already have a pretty good map, but from what I can see from the way it works, if you have your AFR table set correctly and how quickly it makes it's adjustments, it should work pretty well.

As a 20 year old student who has finished this years exams, and don't need to go back to uni until mid September, I have PLENTY of time on my hands.

Seeing as though you have a wideband it should be pretty easy for you to tune your VE table, get it idling around 14.5-15.0 about 13ish on medium throttle and 12.5 on full throttle and it should be pretty drivable. There is all of the other trick settings like acceleration enrichment which stops the stumble when you snap open the throttle (Especially on ITB's) warmup enrichments etc.

You're the same age as my son and have an amazing amount of knowledge about MS for one so young . hope you find time for "Come dine with me" as well

[Edited on 11/5/13 by Valtra]

Car running better once fuel pressure dropped to 3 bar and ignition map engaged . Just warming up and lead light cable touched the exhaust . Which threw the trip once the ecu had fried and my laptop power supply also ....... I didn't have words left to say .

That sucks big time. And you were doing so well, are you sure the ECU is fried? weird that it would also affect your laptop power supply also. Did any of the fuses go?

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave_424
That sucks big time. And you were doing so well, are you sure the ECU is fried? weird that it would also affect your laptop power supply also. Did any of the fuses go?

---

Wow, I'm not too sure if you can do repairs to microsquirt ECU's but this guy http://www.megasquirtuk.co.uk/ can do repairs in the UK

Almost had an oops myself today, was running my engine and had some nuts and bolts on my rear spoiler which sits over the top of the throttle bodies, the vibration almost dropped a load of m6 nuts into my open throttle bodies.

Any idea what you are going to do? replacement microsquirt?

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave_424
Wow, I'm not too sure if you can do repairs to microsquirt ECU's but this guy http://www.megasquirtuk.co.uk/ can do repairs in the UK

Almost had an oops myself today, was running my engine and had some nuts and bolts on my rear spoiler which sits over the top of the throttle bodies, the vibration almost dropped a load of m6 nuts into my open throttle bodies.

Any idea what you are going to do? replacement microsquirt?

---

we can repair ANY megasquirt ECU, including PCB damage.

Max cost £150.

Cheaper than buying a new one!!

if you bring you car to us for mapping we will repair the ECU and map the car for £350.


www.baileyperformance.co.uk

quote:

---

Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
we can repair ANY megasquirt ECU, including PCB damage.

Max cost £150.

Cheaper than buying a new one!!

if you bring you car to us for mapping we will repair the ECU and map the car for £350.


www.baileyperformance.co.uk

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Valtra

quote:

---

Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
we can repair ANY megasquirt ECU, including PCB damage.

Max cost £150.

Cheaper than buying a new one!!

if you bring you car to us for mapping we will repair the ECU and map the car for £350.


www.baileyperformance.co.uk

---

Thanks

Hi

Thanks but I doubt it can be repaired by a human being as the entire board would fit comfortably inside .my phone screen the blitzed component is smaller than a match head and has about 12 wires coming out. I'll take a macro photo later if I get a chance . Where are you based?

---

Not got good 3g here and not near car . But no comms for sure

As you can see from these pics repair is not really possible with a soldering iron that is one new penny for scale . you may be able to see the ampaseal pin has burned out and severed the silver line leading from it on the pcb and flipping it over reveals the damaged component on the top of the board . Hopefully the house RCB tripping out saved anything else including me . But the laptop will no longer take a charge despite booting back up seemingly without any other issues . Hoping I can put the hard drive straight into its' near identical replacement , but sods law says it won't work properly . good fun!


burned out pin ,


get your tweezers out

If those are the only components/parts that are fried, then it can be saved, anyone with a good de-soldering knowledge would be able to replace that chip and those burnt out traces could be fixed with a surface wire connecting the two points.

All is not lost..

Ok gobsmacked if you think that is repairable

Perhaps it's just my fading eyes then , May be worth sending it for repair then selling it on or selling it " in need of repair" for somebody with good eyes a steady hand and small tweezers .

Shouldn't be too hard to repair really. Not too sure about other damage though.

If you are really looking for a new one, you'd be better off getting it repaired and mapped imho. Offer sounds good.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MarcV
Shouldn't be too hard to repair really. Not too sure about other damage though.

If you are really looking for a new one, you'd be better off getting it repaired and mapped imho. Offer sounds good.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Valtra

quote:

---

Originally posted by MarcV
Shouldn't be too hard to repair really. Not too sure about other damage though.

If you are really looking for a new one, you'd be better off getting it repaired and mapped imho. Offer sounds good.

---

Does sound good but I fear it's not necessarily quite as straightforward . still pondering as it's well over 100 miles to trailer the car and likely to take more than a day to complete . I, like most, have a set idea about where I am aiming and would be there by now but for a momentary lapse of sense and care .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by BaileyPerformance

quote:

---

Originally posted by Valtra

quote:

---

Originally posted by MarcV
Shouldn't be too hard to repair really. Not too sure about other damage though.

If you are really looking for a new one, you'd be better off getting it repaired and mapped imho. Offer sounds good.

---

Does sound good but I fear it's not necessarily quite as straightforward . still pondering as it's well over 100 miles to trailer the car and likely to take more than a day to complete . I, like most, have a set idea about where I am aiming and would be there by now but for a momentary lapse of sense and care .

---

We have had folks travel from Ireland, Scotland, London and Jersey to get there megasquirts mapped properly, so 100miles is just around the corner!! ;-)

Full mapping (and minor correction - such as wiring) take 10AM - 6PM and costs £250. cheap!!

www.baileyperformance.co.uk

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by BaileyPerformance

quote:

---

Originally posted by Valtra

quote:

---

Originally posted by MarcV
Shouldn't be too hard to repair really. Not too sure about other damage though.

If you are really looking for a new one, you'd be better off getting it repaired and mapped imho. Offer sounds good.

---

Does sound good but I fear it's not necessarily quite as straightforward . still pondering as it's well over 100 miles to trailer the car and likely to take more than a day to complete . I, like most, have a set idea about where I am aiming and would be there by now but for a momentary lapse of sense and care .

---

We have had folks travel from Ireland, Scotland, London and Jersey to get there megasquirts mapped properly, so 100miles is just around the corner!! ;-)

Full mapping (and minor correction - such as wiring) take 10AM - 6PM and costs £250. cheap!!

www.baileyperformance.co.uk

---

I think I have an early microsquirt board fully working just without a case. I'll have a look for it, if its suitable the deal still stands and will only take a day to do.
I'm 90% sure your amp connector can be fitted to my board and your case used. I could sit you my board of you like so you can check?

quote:

---

Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
I think I have an early microsquirt board fully working just without a case. I'll have a look for it, if its suitable the deal still stands and will only take a day to do.
I'm 90% sure your amp connector can be fitted to my board and your case used. I could sit you my board of you like so you can check?

---

update....


New ecu (ouwch) hooked up and thankfully engine strikes up which is nice .

Unfortunately my faithful facet pump is only working when it want's to so this is hampering tune-up (still static in the shed ) as untill i can be sure the swirl pot is fully charged fuel starvation will be an intermittent issue .

Like so many components on my car the feeder pump is very much "in built " but looks like I'll need to pull it out and probably best to discard it I'm assuming the feeder pump does not need to be anything special to keep the swirl full but perhaps my barrel type would be preferable if only to keep the pipework happy. but if the cube type has advantages please let me know as they are at least cheaper .

One thing I noticed today is the rev counter not working (fiat gauge pack) not sure if it was last week or not , but I thought it got it's feed from the alternator .....perhaps the alternator is now sha&&ed as well .

On a positive note since the meltdown I now have a re-appearance of the previously absent oil pressure light

ego settings ???


my default settings are saying active below map 90 but my map is constantly running 100-120 so does that mean it's not using the available data to self tune from the wideband (lc1)?

raised the min to 120 now seems to be shifting the percentage ego correction in diagnostics

Why is this process shoving obstacles in my way . close inspection around the head shows coolant has been pi$$ing out in various places . so looks like I'll have to add another head gasket, cam belt and "weekend" to the process. Bu££er.

or use some of this ?

Fiat KSEAL HEAD GASKET RADIATOR CORE PLUG HEATER MATRIX STOP LEAK REPAIR | eBay

any experience ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Valtra
update....


New ecu (ouwch) hooked up and thankfully engine strikes up which is nice .

Unfortunately my faithful facet pump is only working when it want's to so this is hampering tune-up (still static in the shed ) as untill i can be sure the swirl pot is fully charged fuel starvation will be an intermittent issue .

Like so many components on my car the feeder pump is very much "in built " but looks like I'll need to pull it out and probably best to discard it I'm assuming the feeder pump does not need to be anything special to keep the swirl full but perhaps my barrel type would be preferable if only to keep the pipework happy. but if the cube type has advantages please let me know as they are at least cheaper .

One thing I noticed today is the rev counter not working (fiat gauge pack) not sure if it was last week or not , but I thought it got it's feed from the alternator .....perhaps the alternator is now sha&&ed as well .

On a positive note since the meltdown I now have a re-appearance of the previously absent oil pressure light

---

Yes probably go some sort of pulse from the coil but there is definitely a wire from alternator to tacho somewhere . I have had a tractor rev counter issue when the alternator is faulty in the past but of course there isn't a coil on a diesel

Had my first drive and couldn't get it running smoothly using speed density so tried Alpha N and instantly the car started running properly and not chucking out black smoke. But this time squealing like a kettle from the header tank. Waited a few minutes until it had settled before removing the pressure cap.....not long enough it seems as boiling water/antifreeze gushed out all over the engine and into my face.....now watching the Grand Prix wearing a bit of sunburn sensation but at least I can see..

Now have to work out why I'm overheating any suggestions gratefully received. wondering if I either had some sort of airlock or the thermostat has seized shut , but I only drove a very short distance on a cool day would that cause overheating?

Can you tell if you are lean? that would cause a hotter engine, but air in the system would cause it also, since the rad was getting hot, then the thermostat should have been opening. You got a fan on the rad?

My thoughts would point to either your engine running lean or air in the cooling system.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dave_424
Can you tell if you are lean? that would cause a hotter engine, but air in the system would cause it also, since the rad was getting hot, then the thermostat should have been opening. You got a fan on the rad?

My thoughts would point to either your engine running lean or air in the cooling system.

---