Still had no success in getting the car to start, i am trying to run blacktop zetec with megasquirt using a griffin inlet manifold which allows the use of standard fuel rail and throttle body, ive got fuel pressure had injectors out connected to fuel rail and all appear to be firing, i have prime pulse. i am dring the coil pack from the megasquirt and have no edis, checked coil and its ok. wheel decoder settings are set for 36-1 but i can only get a spark when i have the settings as "timer Based" and it will not spark if set to "trigger return" . i have rpm signal,
but engine still wont cough or do anything, tried loads of varius maps and all input ok but end up with same result, i have to alter them to timer based t o get the spark. Anybody got any ideas

These are the base settings that were supplied with my megasquirt for the Ford 36-1 wheel, maybe worth comparing.



Ford 36-1 settings

Could get you the current ones as well if that would help?

[Edited on 3/9/07 by MkIndy7]

i have tried those setteings and it will not spark if i alter trigger return to time based then it sparks, but all my wheel decoder settings are set for the 36-1 trigger wheel, i am pressuming that the reason it wont fire is because the spark is being triggered at the wrong time. Tried spraying wd40 in the inlet manifold and still the same.

Sounds like the timing is out. Check the basics, that the trigger wheel is in the right place (zetec usually on flywheel so prob not a problem for you). Check wiring to the coil packs. Could be firing the wrong batch at the wrong time etc.
Start with the basic stuff and work towards the harder stuff and you'll solve the problem eventually. Oli.

You know the answer Tim, fit the bike engine now. I got another zx9 engine for less than the cost of your inlet manifold.

Andy

Has it ever run on the Megasquirt?

As said in the previous post, Updating ours with EasyTherm really screwed it up and it just wouldn't run, even with those settings I posted being copied into it.

I just opened the original .msq file were were sent with the Megasquirt and it all worked again, even with the new temperature info.

Where did the Megasquirt come from?, ours has a list of items that you MUST check after updating the temp sensors etc. Things like which output (LED) is configured for spark etc.

Also check that you've not got it set for stim for wheel.

Tim, even if the plugs are trying to fire at the wrong time, you would still get something happening, ie:- great big bangs, maybe on your trigger setting it's not fireing your injectors.

rayward built the megasquirt and it all seems fine on the stim, the engine has never been running on megasquirt or ben apart i think it must be the timing that is screwing it up but cant figure out how. As said using zetec flywheel so that only fits one way and vr sensor is in a set position, i think i will re install megatune and see if that makes a difference

Check the spark while cranking with a timing light, that's the only way you'll know if it's sparking at the right time or not.

Can you upload your msq?

You haven't got an engine out of an automatic and fitted a new flywheel by any chance. They need the non auto crank sensor.
Also crank sensors are polarity sensitive.

are the plugs wet as they should be if injectors are firing and not sparking

Please feel free to reply with lots of expletatives... but could you put the standard Zetec ECU back on it?

It would save you a HELL of ALOT of STRESS!

Because once you can get it started on Megasquirt it doesn't get any easyer!

I am one of Megajolts biggest fans, but Megasquirt, forget it! (please feel free to remind me of this post if I ever get it running well and begin singing its praises)

At the moment mine sounds like an Impreza, Sups Fuel like a Impreza.. and goes like a Justy! (and won't turn over when warm!)

Tim, where abouts in East Yorkshire are you.

I set mine up with no bother at all and am happy to come acroos for a chat. I could bring the laptop with megatune on with some of my MSQs from when it was standard.
Don't be fazed by the challenges, or the doubters, it will work if you set it correctly.

As Dusty said, have you got the VR sensor wired the right way around.

You are getting no sparks unless time based and may not be getting any fuel except for the intial prime pulse. This could suggest your VR sensor is either wired wrongly or is knackered.

This would be my starting piont.

Maybe a silly question, but has the MS unit been set up to run as the edis unit, or has it been set up to run with the edis unit. I am going to have to rewire a part of my MS as I intend to do the same, use it as the edis itself. Cheers Ray

Tangoman i am in south cave in east yorks just at the end of the m62 about 12 miles west of Hull, The engine was from an auto and it has had the flywheel changed to a 1.8 escort, i did change the housing of the vr crank sensor to a manual but used the same sensor in the new housing.

removed vr sensor and cleaned tried wiring opposite way around and get spark on either trigger return but still wont go, after cleaning vr sensor returned wiring to how i had it originally and it will now spark on trigger return or time based. Still nt getting any fuel to plugs, treid squirting wd40 through the inlet manifold and no joy, removed fuel rail get priming pulse and a squirt of fuel, with the fuel rail off the car with injectors connected continually cranking and fuel is squirting out , refit the fuel rail and no fuel at plugs, removed inlet manifold and everything ok , i can hear fuel flowing back to the tank after the regulator but i cannot understand why off the car the fuel is squirting ok but when on the car its not, i am stuck now! where is the fuel going if not to the cylinders as said before it wont even cough.

If the injectors are powering while off of the car then it's very strange they do no while on the car.I had an immeddiate thought that perhaps there's an electrical fault ( perhaps a live to the squirt case) which would/might stop the switched negative of the injectors. The more I think about it as I'm typing the worse an idea it becomes (but first instincts and all that) especially if the case is bolted to a non conndutive panel. A quick try with the case held in your hand might be an idea.
This is becoming one of these strange ones.

The valves can't be opening at all then if no fuel is getting into the cylinders.

If fuel and sparks are being delivered then regardles of when they arrive it should make some cough or bark or something.

Are they Hydraulic Tappets in the Zetec?
For some reason could they not be opeing, I know when my dads Hyundai's low on oil and parked up the steep garage ramp, or if its left for a while after doing an oil change its a real Ba*tard to start as the oil must drain out of the head so the valves won't open, It just spins and spins like there's no real compression till oil pressure builds up again.

just put a multimeter on the megasquirt case when cranking , no problrms there. A problem that i have is the fuel pump is wired through a relay and runs continually. On turning on the ignition the megatune says the pump is running for 2 secs and then turns off (which i think is correct) and then when cranking the megatune says that fuel pump is on, but as said the fuel pump runs continually. i wonder if this is having some effect on the injectors? have i got my relay wired correctly. pin 30 +12v ignition swiched live, pin 86 linked to pin 30 +12v live.pin 87 to fuel pump. pin 85 to megasquirt

solid lifters on the phase 3 blacktop

That sounds about right, we've had a problem on ours with the alternator backfeeding an ignition relay so the car carrys on running unless something high powered is switched on such as flashing full beam or the cooling fan on.

From what i've just posted, I woned if its worth turning the engine over with no inlet manifold on and check the valves open.

Another idea i've just had, What would happen if the inlet valve was slightly open when the piston got near the top of its stroke and it filled the inlet runner with a 80PSI charge of air (if the throttle butterfly was closed).. could that actually stop any fuel coming out if the injectors when they open, if the fuel behind them is only 60PSI?

Could that be why there not firing when the on the car maybe?

Few questions first:-


If you have no rpm sigal your injectors won't open + no fuel pump and no spark.

Are you driving the coil pack directly? i.e wasted spark??

Cheers

Got several MS maps, here you can give them all a try if you wish, mine is running but still requires a tune(over my head)....still aint found anyone in the newcastle area with the know how!!

quote:

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That sounds about right, we've had a problem on ours with the alternator backfeeding an ignition relay so the car carrys on running unless something high powered is switched on such as flashing full beam or the cooling fan on.

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We put a Diode in line with the Dasboard light, so it still illuminates when the Ignition first goes on.. and thus presumably works still when its required.

No idea as yet as to how its was backfeeding but I suspect it was through the Immobiliser we wired in.
As we wasn't sure of the Amperage rateing of the Immobilizer we fed all the Injection system through a relay thats coil was fed by the immobliliser.
A back feed from the alternator charge light must have been just enough to keep this energised, even after turning the ignition completely off.. it would just keep running until you pulled out the immobiliser, or flashed lol.

running wasted spark driving coils from ecu, i have rpm signal, spark and fuel but fuel is not reaching the plugs, my thought is now that when it is all put together i could be getting a voltage drop that is stopping the injectors from opening. Having said that i have got battery + jump leads onto another vehicle and it still does not make a difference and getting a good rpm signal and it sounds like the injectors are opening

next plan of action torch+match im going to make one hell of a spark

Dump the FI and fit bike carbs do you need a manifold making

Keep the faith and Check EVERYTHING mechanical.

My really poor running and poor responce from trying to tune it was No4 Spark plug breaking down under load, sparked fine on the manifold out of the car etc. They were bloody new n'all!

I ain't that far away from thee if you want a hand one day.

It would take a seriously low battery to stop the injectors opening, I've had mine barely turning over and it still fired.

You could try running the injector test mode to see if you can here the pressure release from the fuel rail.

sounds very similar to my teething problems

Does the revcounter in megasquirt detect that the engine is turning when you try and start. if not the the squirt does not know the engins is turning,

I had to adjust the two blue pots on the squirt untill it recognised the crank sensor, fired up shortly after that sensor

I will dig for an earlier post I did on the subject

Partial success
It was traced to the trim pots inside the Megasquirt. a pair of blue pots on the PCB, each with a wheel like a screw head.
I needed to adjust the VR sensitivity.

I now have spark and a RPM reading in megatune, don’t seem to be getting any fuel through to the injectors though, I suspect the pressure in fuel line as the problem, as I am using the stock pump from my donor ( Scorpio)

Here's an article on how to adjust the trim pots:
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/vradjust.htm

Injector test mode is only on MS2, and it doesn't sound like that's what he's running. Can you try cranking the engine for a few seconds with everything on the engine, and then whip off the manifold to see if there's any fuel in the ports/manifold?

My first guess if they're not firing when on the engine would be a broken wire inside the insulation. How are the injectors connected to +12v and the MS injector drivers? Do you have a single 12v feed for all the injectors, and/or are you splitting the injectors across the two available banks on MS? If all four injectors aren't firing then look for the common link between them, probably the +12v.

injectors are wired with a common 12 v fed to all injectors and then are wired in banks of 2. 1+2 cylinders and 3+4 .
if i continually turn hte ignition on and ff for approx 20 times i get the prime pulse and a squirt each time eventually the car will pop as sufficient fuel to the plugs. if this happens does this rule out the vr sensor as it is definitley getting a spark. putting a multimeter across the injectors when cranking i do get a flicker on the meter this i pressume is showing that the injectors are opening. istill thin it is fuel delivery related rathe than the ecu. The fuel flowing through the rail is really load and it sounds as though the pump is to efficient for the regulatorbut i cant understand is if it delivers fuel off the car why it wont when on the car, i am going to take of the mnifold again today for further investigation.

There aren't any tight bends in the fuel lines when the rail is mounted to the engine are there? A kink might make some noise when the fuel pump is trying to force fuel through it, and could disappear when the rail is moved.

Sorry if i'm stating the bleeding obvious, these things aren't the easiest to troubleshoot when you're not sat in front of them

This is a longshot

Have you checked the fuel lines? The regulator is supposed to sit after the fuel rail on the return line. Otherwise you will not get any fuel pressure.

latest update, i have the manifold off the car with the fuel rail and injectors attached crank the engine and fuel squirts(so far so good) still with the inlet removed i can see the valves opening and closing as they should. I can also see a spark from the plugs on 1 + 4 cylinders but nothing from 2 + 3. when i remove the plugs from the block and reduce the load i get a good spark on all 4 cylinders when cranking .
it appears that a few extra rpm is required to keep the spark on all cylinders,
i have jump leads to the battery from my tintop and have 13.7 volts static and when cranking it drops to just under 12 v but the engine does not seem to be struggling to turn over but i loose the spark on cylinders 2 +3 . checked the coil pack and it appears to be ok. changed the starter motor to see if this pulling the voltage down and it is just the same. could these symptoms be caused by incorrect "trim pot settings" on the vr sensor as mentioned previously in an earlier post or do i just need more voltage to get the engine to turn over quicker

could be the VR sensor Is it in a sheilded cable?? grounded at the squirt?
Edited to say that with all the plugs out the engine will be cranking over quicker and this may also help with the vr signal. Is the clearance gap on the flywheel ok?? I know scoobylav had a lot of vr problems on his zetec

[Edited on 7/9/07 by omega 24 v6]

Just double checked..

Plugs 2 and 3 share the same physical side of coil... and also the same trigger wire from Megasquirt and thus also the same coil driver inside the megasquirt.

I've had it this week where a plug will spark outside the car but not under pressure inside the engine... maybe similar

quote:

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Plugs 2 and 3 share the same physical side of coil... and also the same trigger wire from Megasquirt and thus also the same coil driver inside the megasquirt.

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have tried swapping the wires on the coil and it does then tranfer the problem to 1+4 so it looks like it could be something to do with the coil driver. It all appears to work fine until put under load, you said you had the same symptoms earlier this week how did you rectify it?

Mine was one of the spark plugs themselfes that wouldn't fire under load.
It would spark like a good'en resting on the manifold (the usual test), but put it back in the engine and it just wouldn't fire.

So similar to yours, something when its put under load isisn't working, if it all works off the car.
If the problem transfers over then it sounds like its the Coil driver inside Megasquirt or the wireing imbetween.

Maybe worth opening up the megasquirt and having a smell, then looking for any dry joints or damaged components. From what I can make out the coil drivers are connected to the case itself to use as a heat sink.

It sounds like your getting closer, hang on in there!

[Edited on 8/9/07 by MkIndy7]