This skrike has me well puzzled ...... the strikers now agree its ok to bring in workers from other countrys as long as its a 50/50 split with locals and only applys on new contracts ....... thats not what they said a few days back?
I believe its called a compromise.
I'm afraid for me the argument was lost when they interviewed several on Channel 4 News last night and there was no coherent message. topped of
with the quote "We don't want those spics and Itias working over ere"
the truth is it's business and any company will do what ever it has too to make profits and reduce costs.
this said Italian company is actually employing British workers in Sicilly on an Italian contract for the same reason!
quote:
Originally posted by nib1980
this said Italian company is actually employing British workers in Sicilly on an Italian contract for the same reason!
The problem goes far deeper than that.
For 25-30 years, employers have been allowed to get away with not training any apprentices and just use european labour.
Now people do not want to get into the building trade, especially since the financial incentive is not there anymore.
I am and Electrician and the average hourly rate has stayed the same for 6-7 years while everything else has gone up, especially housing.
Now we have a recession we will have an excess of labour so the only reason this employer is using Italian labour is that they are cheaper.
It doesn't take a genius to work that out.
It is such a shame that we don't have any politicians with backbone anymore.
There is still more trouble ahead........
How long will it be until other countries start trying to kick the Brits out? What comes around goes around....
Scary times! And yes, stupid lazy UK workforce again expecting something for nothing!
Its all academic, when the people on the picket are wearing shoes made in China, jackets produced in India, eating food made in Spain and driving a Japanese car. If they were worried about British jobs, they'd support British industry at home. That would make a bigger difference. IMHO.
The argument was actually lost years ago!! 1st May 2005......... "Every citizen of the EU has the right to work and live in another Member State
without being discriminated against on grounds of nationality." and has actually been around since 1957.
Plain and simple - its now European law and the strikers havent got a leg to stand on. With the fall in the pound against the Euro, its now relatively
CHEAPER to employ British labour. Simple fact is Total gave the contract to an Italian firm WHO HAVE THEIR OWN SKILLED LABOUR. Why on earth should
that contractor employ a bunch of local people who no doubt dont have the required skills to do the work?? They have their own staff who have every
right to work anywhere within the EU.
As said there are plenty of British skilled workers moving abroad - how many are earning a fortune in the Middle East and so on?? If these idiot want
to push for "British jobs for British people", then dont complain when several hundred thousand highly skilled Brits working around the
world suddenly land back on the UK dole queue.
[Edited on 4/2/09 by Paul TigerB6]
I'm not very sympathetic about this. If we are to benefit from free movement and capital (and, contrary to what toilet paper like the daily mail would have us beleive, we do) then we need to accept that in some areas we will be met with tough competition. If I wanted a low paid labourer, would i employ a brit who's more likely to go off on the sick, or a pole who'll work dawn till dusk? No-brainer.
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
How long will it be until other countries start trying to kick the Brits out? What comes around goes around....
Scary times! And yes, stupid lazy UK workforce again expecting something for nothing!
quote:
Originally posted by deezee
Its all academic, when the people on the picket are wearing shoes made in China, jackets produced in India, eating food made in Spain and driving a Japanese car. If they were worried about British jobs, they'd support British industry at home. That would make a bigger difference. IMHO.
The myth that foreign workers are more hard working than brits is one of the worst rumours thats been spread around the country the last few years.
Are some brit workers lazy? Yes. Are some EU imported workers hard working? Yes. But the majority that I have seen in industry (and my friends in the
food and labouring industry) is almost the exact oposite.
And I'm not saying Poles aren't hard working, I'm saying that some of them (and brits and other EU workers) are no more hard working
that brits.
My company employed many more EU workers than brits. We have laid off laods of people. We wanted to keep the 'best' of the workforce. What
are we left with? Mainly brits.
I think its a proper storm in a tea cup, that the media have blown out of proportion, and angry union types are all too eager to jump on the band
wagon.
One of them on newsnight, practically admitted to helping organise the wildcat strikes, even though he had said 5 minutes earlier that the wildcat
strikes were unorganised.
I don't see everyone moaning about british jobs for british people when they are getting a cheap hotel room in a Uk hotel, cleaned and kept
running by foriegn nationals.
Or not buying the BOGOFF offers in the supermarket, which will have been packed by minimum wage workforce, the vast majority of whom are foreign
nationals.
The plackards should say "well paid british jobs for british people, give the crap jobs to the poles!"
id agree there baildey, its yet another 'knock GB' myth that brit workers are lazy. The poles ive seen on sites (and indeed their counterparts from any other nation) all leave at 4pm and do a half day on friday.
The question isn't "who's going to work harder?"
It's "who's going to work harder for less money?"
And the answer is usually the poles etc. Supply and demand. Welcome to capitalism! It's shit, but at least we don't all end up killing
each other. Yet.
I have little sympathy for them. Unofficial strikes are not legal and put them at risk of getting the sack. It also makes them unreliable employees
and who wants to employ that?
One EU national has the same right to work as any other EU national. They don't have the right to object to foreign workers getting the extra
work.
The truth it that we would be really stuck in this country if all the foreign workers went home. They do lots of jobs that we rely on and for a rate
of pay we would refuse.
I also heard on the BBC recently that there are more Brits working abroad than foreigners working here. Do these strikers really want national
protectionism that takes away the rights of the Brits abroad just to keep foreigners from working here?
quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
I think its a proper storm in a tea cup, that the media have blown out of proportion, and angry union types are all too eager to jump on the band wagon.
One of them on newsnight, practically admitted to helping organise the wildcat strikes, even though he had said 5 minutes earlier that the wildcat strikes were unorganised.
I don't see everyone moaning about british jobs for british people when they are getting a cheap hotel room in a Uk hotel, cleaned and kept running by foriegn nationals.
Or not buying the BOGOFF offers in the supermarket, which will have been packed by minimum wage workforce, the vast majority of whom are foreign nationals.
The plackards should say "well paid british jobs for british people, give the crap jobs to the poles!"
I could
scream everytime I hear someone whinging about being offered jobs that are "beneath them" and therefore refusing to work for their DWP
benefits. I think the answer is simple= you don't like the jobs we find you, you find your own job, otherwise no benefits...
maybe if you worked in heavy industry
where you have a 4yr apprenticeship
and refresher test,s every six months as a class one welder , health and safety
as an absolute first on a refinery
then they bring in someone who does not have to pass a british standard test and maybe cant read the health and safety signs
i fully support the lads on the humber bank
Well after 12 years working for a British company I am (through no fault of my own)to be made redundant on friday, so unlike those who have for many
years complained about conditions, wages, length of time for tea breaks etc etc I shall be busy sending C.V's, knocking on doors and taking any
job that will allow me to pay my mortgage and feed the family. Britain used to be called Great once....but thanks in part to the whingers it is
unfortunately no more.... Chin up, big smile and look at the positives.
Andy p
It does seem a bit of a contrived strike, Some foreign workers work for better value in our country, but, coversely, British workers get jobs overseas because of their lower rates - did it myself for years. Protectionism of this kind tends to backfire, what next? expulsion of foreigners? English workers for English jobs???
quote:
Originally posted by pointy
Well after 12 years working for a British company I am (through no fault of my own)to be made redundant on friday, so unlike those who have for many years complained about conditions, wages, length of time for tea breaks etc etc I shall be busy sending C.V's, knocking on doors and taking any job that will allow me to pay my mortgage and feed the family. Britain used to be called Great once....but thanks in part to the whingers it is unfortunately no more.... Chin up, big smile and look at the positives.
Andy p
All the best pointy. 
I really don't understand this. A French company (Total) put out a tender, which is then won by an Italian company - of course the Italian
company is going to use its own workers, why shouldn't it?
My company (American) works all over the world, and of course we send our own retained staff when we win a contract. I really don't see any
difference.
Nick
One of the arguments (I don't necessarily agree or disagree with this) about freedom of movement for workers is basically that, as with many
things in Europe, the game is rigged against us, for historical, economic and political reasons.
Firms in the UK and our government are eager to allow the use of foreign labour. But if our tradesmen want to work in Italy, France, Germany or Spain
(for example), they face official and unofficial obstruction. The cultural reasons for this in each country are pretty obvious and probably
don't need too much explication. Parallels could be drawn with the conduct of the common fisheries policy and the common agricultural policy,
the point being that by hook or by crook, we end up with the short end of the stick.
I personally have nothing against Italians coming here and improving the standard of British pasta, corruption and diving (the football kind, that
is), but there may well be some basis for the complaints.
quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
How long will it be until other countries start trying to kick the Brits out? What comes around goes around....
Scary times! And yes, stupid lazy UK workforce again expecting something for nothing!
I resent the lazy workforce comments.
I did a 4 year apprenticeship and stayed on to get my ONC qualifications.
I am now 45 and am retaking exams (2391 and 17th edition). I also have to undertake a CSCS exam every 3 years to ensure that I can work on a building site, all at my own expense. 2391 is £700 and 16th edition £600.
I work 84 hour weeks, that is 7 twelve hour shifts.
Someone who comes here can go to work on a site with a 2 year exemption from the cscs health and safety exam.
Who is more likely to have an accident? The newbie without their cscs.
One of the things you seem to forget is the words "British Standards". It is the benchmark that the world works too.
How many employers are allowed to get away with using cheap labour but charging their clients for the real deal qualified people.
I've seen it all.
The only ones gaining in all this is the employer. The rest of use are just pawns.
[Edited on 4/2/2009 by nitram38]
the argument seems to be rather confused for those 'pro' the strikes....
Do you
a: have a problem with the workers nationality?
or
b: have a problem with the rules being biased in allowing them to work without the appropriate level of skills/training/quals/experience?
From reading posts it sounds like the answer is B not A, if the strike were called for B, then they would have my (and I guess many others) sympathy -
for A then I have no sympathy.
Just my opinion.
Greg
And Americans, coming over here, taking our women and stealing jobs from our hardworking insolvency lawyers? 
Nick
quote:
Originally posted by idl1975
One of the arguments (I don't necessarily agree or disagree with this) about freedom of movement for workers is basically that, as with many things in Europe, the game is rigged against us, for historical, economic and political reasons.
Firms in the UK and our government are eager to allow the use of foreign labour. But if our tradesmen want to work in Italy, France, Germany or Spain (for example), they face official and unofficial obstruction. The cultural reasons for this in each country are pretty obvious and probably don't need too much explication. Parallels could be drawn with the conduct of the common fisheries policy and the common agricultural policy, the point being that by hook or by crook, we end up with the short end of the stick.
I personally have nothing against Italians coming here and improving the standard of British pasta, corruption and diving (the football kind, that is), but there may well be some basis for the complaints.
quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
How long will it be until other countries start trying to kick the Brits out? What comes around goes around....
Scary times! And yes, stupid lazy UK workforce again expecting something for nothing!
I resent the lazy workforce comments.
I did a 4 year apprenticeship and stayed on to get my ONC qualifications.
I am now 45 and am retaking exams (2391 and 17th edition). I also have to undertake a CSCS exam every 3 years to ensure that I can work on a building site, all at my own expense. 2391 is £700 and 16th edition £600.
I work 84 hour weeks, that is 7 twelve hour shifts.
Someone who comes here can go to work on a site with a 2 year exemption from the cscs health and safety exam.
Who is more likely to have an accident? The newbie without their cscs.
One of the things you seem to forget is the words "British Standards". It is the benchmark that the world works too.
How many employers are allowed to get away with using cheap labour but charging their clients for the real deal qualified people.
I've seen it all.
The only ones gaining in all this is the employer. The rest of use are just pawns.
[Edited on 4/2/2009 by nitram38]