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RIP Mandela....
McLannahan - 5/12/13 at 09:55 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-25249520

slingshot2000 - 5/12/13 at 10:02 PM

+1

RIP !


A giant of a man!

bi22le - 5/12/13 at 10:11 PM

Helped the world become what it is today, almost free, almost equal.

A man that will never be forgotten.

JoelP - 5/12/13 at 10:22 PM

Rest in peace.

femster87 - 5/12/13 at 10:35 PM

Rest in peace, great guy

britishtrident - 5/12/13 at 10:39 PM

A man of great dignity charisma, wisdom ,determination, high principles and courage.

wylliezx9r - 5/12/13 at 10:46 PM

RIP

myke pocock - 5/12/13 at 10:50 PM

A legend in the correct sense of the word.

Scuzzle - 5/12/13 at 10:59 PM

Undoubtedly a real catalyst for racial equality in his later moderate years but his early radical years are forgotten totally.

JacksAvon - 5/12/13 at 11:14 PM

does it really matter, a big fish in the small pond that is South Africa.

Morally corrupt before him and after him.

Still a toilet

femster87 - 5/12/13 at 11:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JacksAvon
does it really matter, a big fish in the small pond that is South Africa.

Morally corrupt before him and after him.

Still a toilet


Interesting!!

craig1410 - 5/12/13 at 11:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
A man of great dignity charisma, wisdom ,determination, high principles and courage.


Agree on all of the above 100% but what I remember most is his infectious smile and soft voice. I was choking up a bit as the news was being read and I don't mind admitting it. My 17 year daughter was sitting next to me and after hearing the BBC's summary of his achievements, even she was impressed. Anyone with a teenager will know that doesn't happen every day! A truly great man.

However, I was less than impressed with President Obama's speech. There was something very odd in the tone and delivery. Maybe he was overly emotional or something but it seemed very odd indeed and not at all what I expected. Did anyone else pick that up or was it just me?

NigeEss - 5/12/13 at 11:53 PM

Much good as he did, and I respect him for all of it, he has his dark side.

RIP nontheless.

Scuzzle - 6/12/13 at 12:05 AM

That's how I feel about the man, I respect and admire what he has achieved but there seem to be so many putting him forward as some kind of saint and I just think he cannot hold this status as he has his share of bodies buried and blood on his hands.

craig1410 - 6/12/13 at 12:11 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Scuzzle
That's how I feel about the man, I respect and admire what he has achieved but there seem to be so many putting him forward as some kind of saint and I just think he cannot hold this status as he has his share of bodies buried and blood on his hands.


“I am not a saint, unless you think of a saint as a sinner who keeps on trying.” : Nelson Mandela

Ivan - 6/12/13 at 07:46 AM

He will be sadly missed by all in this country including me - what a pity that many here do not honour his legacy of forgiveness and ubuntu.

A truly great humanist.

RIP Madiba.

dhutch - 6/12/13 at 08:28 AM

quote:
Originally posted by JacksAvon
does it really matter, a big fish in the small pond that is South Africa.

Morally corrupt before him and after him.

Still a toilet

I think he was driving too fast in an urban area... we dont even know he was the passenger, and...

ludobenc - 6/12/13 at 10:00 AM

RIP

carpmart - 6/12/13 at 11:13 AM

Its a difficult one this. I fundamentally am opposed to everything that apartheid stood for. Mandela was clearly an inspirational man and really helped SA become what it has today. However, he was in the strictest sense of the meaning a terrorist and implicitly involved in terrorist activities. I find terrorism abhorrent in equal measures to that which I find apartheid. Based on the good he has done, broadly cancelling out the bad, I guess I am personally fairly ambivalent about Mandela overall.

Slater - 6/12/13 at 11:54 AM

A sad sad day, he's achieved alot in this country and is an insiration around the world. I just wish he was in power for longer.

We have been given the afternoon off work, so we can pay our respects.

ken555 - 6/12/13 at 08:09 PM

Am I the only one fed up hearing the platitudes toward Nelson Madela?
Reporters stating how he gave up 27 years of his life for the struggle against apartheid, no he was imprisoned for his part in killing over 100 people. Also, he was offered freedom if he denounced violence and terrorism, which he declined to do.
In my opinion his action are no better than those of McGuinness and Adams.
Yes he was a great statesman, but before that he was a murdering b*****d

[Edited on 6-12-13 by ken555]

Rod Ends - 6/12/13 at 08:35 PM

The New South Africa - The Next Zimbabwe

femster87 - 6/12/13 at 09:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ken555
Am I the only one fed up hearing the platitudes toward Nelson Madela?
Reporters stating how he gave up 27 years of his life for the struggle against apartheid, no he was imprisoned for his part in killing over 100 people. Also, he was offered freedom if he denounced violence and terrorism, which he declined to do.
In my opinion his action are no better than those of McGuinness and Adams.
Yes he was a great statesman, but before that he was a murdering b*****d

[Edited on 6-12-13 by ken555]


As a young black african man, I do not share your sentiments at all. We have people like him to thank for our developed tolerance of each other. Would I have used his tactics? I do not know, oppression does strange thinks to humans

ken555 - 6/12/13 at 11:29 PM

He was a terrorist.
Remember, the difference between "freedom fighter" and "terrorists" is purely in the eye of the beholder.
He just happened to be a terrorist who was on the right side of the fight.

shindha - 7/12/13 at 08:58 AM

Terrorism isn't that some one person or a group of people trying to impose their will on another group using force and the threat of force. So could that mean the state was trying to treat people unequally and imposing this will by using force.
Does that not make the state a terrorist?
Does that mean the people fighting the Taliban are terrorists?
Mandela fought against a state that was treating its people unfairly, using violent and peaceful means as necessary, and to the native people of South Africa he made a very big positive difference.

Theshed - 7/12/13 at 10:06 AM

quote:
Originally posted by ken555
He was a terrorist.
Remember, the difference between "freedom fighter" and "terrorists" is purely in the eye of the beholder.
He just happened to be a terrorist who was on the right side of the fight.



Is a terrorist on "the right side of the fight" not a freedom fighter? If the targeting directly or indirectly of civilians is terrorism then presumably Churchill's decision to bomb civilian centers amounted to terrorism as did Truman's decision to fire bomb and later nuke Japanese cities. Surely those decisions were far more extreme than anything done by the ANC? Noting your location I would ask whether Robbie the Bruce, Wallace or the Bonnie Prince are generally referred to as terrorists?

What the young black African above is politely pointing out to you is: who are you to judge the proper reaction to an oppressive regime which dictated where a black could live, walk, work and who they could sleep with? I know where I would stand and did stand. I supported the armed struggle morally and by donations to the dedicated individuals sleeping for years on the steps of the SA Embassy.

JoelP - 8/12/13 at 06:02 PM

Well said you last two. I think some people labour the terrorist aspect because they want to hold a contrary opinion.

brum_gustavo - 8/12/13 at 06:47 PM

Whatever opinion one might have about Mandela, this thread only confirms how important he was. Yet, if he was such a terrorist, once in power after 27 years in jail, it would semm natural for hiw to make south african whites go through the same suffering apartheid did to black people, yet, he struggled to bring peace and mutual understanding, and the fact that, unlike most political leaders of Africa or elsewhere, he stepped down after his first term as president (instead of using his popularity to stay in power for a second term, as in most democracies, or until his death like so manyothers)

britishtrident - 9/12/13 at 10:42 PM

I think perhaps if those who choose to damage Mandela's reputation took the time to find out exactly what he did and didn't do and did and the policies advocated and didn't advocate they would realise theier argument simply vanishes on closer examination.

Apartheid is such an evil concept and the freedom to protest was put down with such extreme measures that the ANC's [I] " terrorism " [/I] was justiied.
Sharpville Massacre BBC Link

There are plenty of good sources on Mandela on the web why not find out for yourself.

Scuzzle - 9/12/13 at 11:22 PM

Mandella admits to his part in the numerous killings of civilian women and children in his autobiography, he does say he's sorry about it though.

carpmart - 9/12/13 at 11:38 PM

There is no clear unequivocal position here on either side. Mandela clearly did 'stuff' which even he believes he shouldn't have done. Sure he made a huge difference to SA over te years, but to hold him in such untainted and high esteem as some do, I find difficult personally to do. Unsurprisingly i personally find apartheid abhorrent too, but I really do get frustrated that both sides of the Mandela camp have such views as they do. Should he be revered in the way he is by many right now, no he shouldn't. Should he be vilified in the way he is by the other camp, no he shouldn't.

As I said in my first post, I feel ambivalent to Mandela.