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Ebay buyer making fake claims
greggors84 - 20/5/08 at 10:31 PM

I sold my free phone upgrade on ebay around 20th April. Got an email off the highest bidder asking a few questions, which annoyed me because the auction was over and all the questions were answered in the auction.

Didnt receive payment for a few days but after an email from me I was paid through paypal (wasnt expecting to get paid to be honest).

Sent the phone off via first class as requested (did offer insured option). Week later recieved good feedback, saying all was ok, I was then away for a week with work and when I got back I had emails demanding good feedback for him. So I left good feeback as he had eventually paid.

Now almost a month later I get an email from paypal saying he has raised a dispute saying he hasnt received the item. As the item was sent normal post i have no tracking number and no receipt. What can I do? Paypal states;


"What can I do if I believe a buyer's claim is fraudulent?

We want to know if you believe that a buyer's claim is fraudulent. PayPal takes action against buyers who issue fraudulent claims and we welcome any information you might be able to provide. Once a case is closed, you will be able to report a fraudulent claim through the "Report Fraud" link on the Claim Details page.

The best way to avoid liability due to fraudulent claims is to follow the Seller Protection Policy guidelines. These "best practices" help ensure that PayPal has the information it needs to successfully prove a fraudulent claim."

Not really helpful as how do I end a dispute with a fraudulent buyer if I cant only report them once the dispute is over!

Sorry for the rant, but just got back from a nice curry with the lads to this!

RazMan - 20/5/08 at 10:36 PM

A tricky one this...

I know this doesn't help much, but I always make sure I send anything of value via recorded delivery for this very reason.

SierraL_killer - 20/5/08 at 10:38 PM

The same thing happened to a friend of mine and Paypal refunded the cash back to the buyer without asking my mate for his permission! Ridiculous.

Fortunatley he did have a receipt and Royal Mail eventually gave him the cash back but no doubt the buyer got a free item out of it!!

stevebubs - 20/5/08 at 11:38 PM

This is all too common on ebay.

I *always* send items recorded post and advertise as such. If a potential buyer has an issue with that, I tell them not to bid.

Don't suppose you have IMEI number of the phone? If so, report it stolen to the police, and provide the report to your service provider. They will then put it on the nationwide "block" list.

If you don't have it, your phone company might.....

[Edited on 20/5/08 by stevebubs]

matt_claydon - 20/5/08 at 11:40 PM

I would have thought that the fact he left you positive feedback would be cast iron evidence that he has no claim.

I would remove all the funds from your Paypal account to your bank (or spend them) though so they can't refund him automatically.

Edit: not sure if that last bit would actually stop them as they have all your bank / CC details. Don't see how it would be legal for them to take money from your account without your permission but they are a law unto themselves!

[Edited on 20/5/08 by matt_claydon]

pawgrp - 21/5/08 at 06:16 AM

Interesting point Matt. Can paypal take funds from you to refund people if you keep a zero balance in your pp account?

kitcar007kev - 21/5/08 at 06:36 AM

Can you not just close your pay pal account? and dispute the claim

speedyxjs - 21/5/08 at 06:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by kitcar007kev
Can you not just close your pay pal account? and dispute the claim


You dont need to close it just empty it. The were talking about stuff like this on the local bbc radio yesterday morning.

Jubal - 21/5/08 at 07:06 AM

Forgetting the benefit of hindsight posts...the best thing you can do is point out the feedback and stand your ground. No buyer would post feedback without receiving the goods as described. It's the whole point of it. Other than that you have nothing.

Paypal will put your account into a negative balance if they uphold his dispute.

mistergrumpy - 21/5/08 at 08:48 AM

I've had a Paypal dispute with GTS in the past and as he had no money in the Paypal account then they said there was nowt they could do until he put some in, they just froze it all. So I'm sure they can't take it via your regular account.

Paul TigerB6 - 21/5/08 at 09:10 AM

quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
I would have thought that the fact he left you positive feedback would be cast iron evidence that he has no claim.

I would remove all the funds from your Paypal account to your bank (or spend them) though so they can't refund him automatically.

Edit: not sure if that last bit would actually stop them as they have all your bank / CC details. Don't see how it would be legal for them to take money from your account without your permission but they are a law unto themselves!

[Edited on 20/5/08 by matt_claydon]


I agree with Matt - surely the fact he left positive feedback should be seen as admitting that he's received the item so he shouldnt have a leg to stand on with his claim. Point Paypal to this fact.

As for the Paypal account - well if they do take the payment out of you they will either get it via the direct debit mandate or give you a negative balance which they will then chase through a debt collection agency if you dont restore the balance!!

Paypal are a nightmare it seems and always seem to side with the bu,yer despite evidence so i wish you luck on this mate

MikeRJ - 21/5/08 at 09:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Jubal
Paypal will put your account into a negative balance if they uphold his dispute.


They never have for me. I have won a few disputes in the past and received nothing because the seller had no funds available in his/her PayPal account.

iank - 21/5/08 at 09:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by Jubal
Paypal will put your account into a negative balance if they uphold his dispute.


They never have for me. I have won a few disputes in the past and received nothing because the seller had no funds available in his/her PayPal account.


I bet their account has been put into the red, but you don't get your money until they bring the account back to zero or more by paying into it. Probably when the sun is a cold dark cinder. Paypal have no incentive to chase that as they haven't lost anything.

Paul TigerB6 - 21/5/08 at 10:06 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by Jubal
Paypal will put your account into a negative balance if they uphold his dispute.


They never have for me. I have won a few disputes in the past and received nothing because the seller had no funds available in his/her PayPal account.


Did you take this up with Paypal Mike?? Paypal themselves gave me a negative balance over a dispute for which i proved that the item was delivered / signed for. It managed to end up in the hand of a debt collection company who went back to Paypal when i gave them a copy of the same evidence saying this is what i will present in court if you want to pursue me. Paypal dropped it and restored my balance a couple of days later after obviously spotting their mistake.

Surely they should be chasing the loser of the dispute for the funds on your behalf - isnt this what we are paying their high fees for - to gain protection??

MikeRJ - 21/5/08 at 10:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
Surely they should be chasing the loser of the dispute for the funds on your behalf - isnt this what we are paying their high fees for - to gain protection??


You'd hope, but PayPal are only out to help PayPal. If there was a viable alternative I wouldn't use them to be honest, but they pretty much have a monopoly on eBay payments. Many sellers don't accept cheques or bank transfers any more.

Fortunately the amounts owed to me have been relatively small (all under £30) so they have been chalked up to experience. On the posiitive side I have had a couple of disputes resolved in my favour and money payed.

Oddly enough in all cases I have tried to resolve payment issues the seller has ignored all emails and have never replied to me in the PayPal dispute page so I've had a strong case when escalated to a claim.

Paul TigerB6 - 21/5/08 at 10:28 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ

You'd hope, but PayPal are only out to help PayPal.



Never a truer word spoken!!! I'd drop them in a heartbeat too if i had an alternative myself. I guess i have been lucky in that i've only ever had one dispute either way and that was clearly someone trying it on. I did have to use a very strong language to Paypal though for going to a debt collection agency to get their own error resolved (within a month of the negative balance) as i work in Financial Services, so anything on my credit file could cause me problems in the future.

greggors84 - 21/5/08 at 12:40 PM

Should have sent it recorded in hindsight.

Good point about the imei number, i have the paper work that came with the phone and hopefully it will be on there. I will email him telling him I will be blocking the phone so its his last chance to own up.

stevebubs - 21/5/08 at 04:26 PM

Don't email him with a warning. Just block it.

Odds are he's sold it on to someone else and if you give him warning he'll have chance to charm them before you block it.

Best just to block it and let him deal with the grief on 2 sides.

greggors84 - 21/5/08 at 06:32 PM

But if I block it there is nothing stopping him going ahead with this claim.

If I can try and get him to close the dispute then it makes it easier for me, but at the moment without any receipt of posting I dont know where I stand.

By the way, my account was at 0, its now £-116 and when I log in I get a reminder that Im in the negative.

JoelP - 21/5/08 at 06:36 PM

where was the buyer greggors? Block the imei number and i'll chip a fiver in to your loss. Then hopefully someone local can cause them some grief.

JoelP - 21/5/08 at 06:39 PM

fact is he has your phone, you probably wont be able to get it back, and its unlikely you can prove he recieved it. So the money is likely gone too. Revenge may be all that is left here.

Paul TigerB6 - 22/5/08 at 07:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by greggors84
But if I block it there is nothing stopping him going ahead with this claim.

If I can try and get him to close the dispute then it makes it easier for me, but at the moment without any receipt of posting I dont know where I stand.

By the way, my account was at 0, its now £-116 and when I log in I get a reminder that Im in the negative.


He's obviously trying it on and Paypal are being typical Paypal and not investigating it properly!! So what exactly did his feedback to you say?? Surely if he left feedback then thats admitting he received the item - why arent Paypal looking at the feedback??

greggors84 - 3/6/08 at 04:44 PM

Been away for the last week with work, get back to an email from Paypal. They have looked at the dispute and they have decided in the favour of the Buyer!

This means my paypal account will stay -£116 (i wont be using it until it gets reinstated!)

I have sent an email asking if they noticed that the buyer left me good feedback before reporting the non delivery and that there was no emails sent to me. Hopefully they havent really looked into it properly and because I didnt have any tracking information they just went in the favour of the buyer. Hopefully now they will actually look at the facts.

Jon Ison - 3/6/08 at 04:47 PM

Well as I lost this ~i don't fancy your chances, sorry.

Paul TigerB6 - 3/6/08 at 08:35 PM

Bloody typical - just automatically find in favour of the buyer and deduct it from your account without the slightest interest in looking at the facts!! If you fail to restore the balance then you will find it gets passed to a debt collection agency very shortly!!