I would also like to point out that if you go on strike in a dispute with your employer the police will come down very heavy on a crowd gathering... you just wait and see how many of them assemble when they start twisting on about there pay
Just heard about
THIS
More proof as if any was needed that we live in a police state. I can't beleive that the officer actually had the gall to to say what can and
cant be tolerated after one of his officers had (when apparently driving illegally) killed a 16 girl in front of her friends. THEN, as if not
satisfied with their days work, tasered and arrested one of her friends that was clearly (and understandably) in shock.
Sorry but after a LONG list of similar incidence I have NO respect for anyone wearing the uniform. Bring back mob rule... it's safer!
[Edited on 21/5/08 by DorsetStrider]
Yes, I saw it on the local news and thought exactly the same. We are moving into a police state where as the gentleman from Northumbria police said we
cannot tolerate that emotion spilling over into violence and disorder, but its OK for police to kill and use weapons against people out on the
street.
I would also like to point out that if you go on strike in a dispute with your employer the police will come down very heavy on a crowd gathering...
you just wait and see how many of them assemble when they start twisting on about there pay
sounds ever so slightly sensationalist to me. i think i'll wait for the on board evidence before i pass judgement.
100mph on residential streets? oh, yes, of course............ fair enough, put some quotes in but bloody hell, at least make them half credible! i
thinkk they should stop putting news on the internet, or at least think a bit before they fill the page.
there's still no right for residents to start hurling bricks at anyone. end of. if her ex was getting arsey and wouldn't stop interfering
when asked, then he had every reason to be tasered. it probably did him less damage than being batoned to stop.
yes, a police officer may have got it wrong. it doesn't make them wrong as an establishment though.
i don't know what the world's coming to
tom
Media sensationalism strikes again....
She was 16 and her ex was 23!?!
I think as above until the full story is established by the IPCC or whoever it's difficult to know what exactly happened.
100mph sounds like a very nice round figure to me, I'd be surprised if it was much more than 50. Not that that makes a difference overall, a
kids still dead, however it may suggest the witness evidence was less than reliable?
Terrible tragedy, loss of a young life. Copper probably distraught too. Really bad all round. No lights - sounds very odd.
Personally I wouldn't have my 16 year old daughter wandering the streets in a gang at 11:30 pm the night before her GCSEs.
Chasing after stolen cars on an estate, gangs of youths, etc, blame our broken society.
More proof... as if any were needed... that you are an arse!
To use a tragic incident such as this to push your obvious anti-police sentiments disgusts me (based on your previous nonsense thread about Prince
Harry / Police speeding).
By all means, come back to us once the incident has been investigated and feel free to post your reactions based on the OUTCOME.
Until then, it may be an idea to keep your trap shut and stop peddling your infantile 'I'll believe whatever I'm told' crap.
For what it's worth, I too will be mightily pissed off if it transpires that a young girl died due to an illegal act committed by a Police
Officer. I would also hope that he/she be dealt with accordingly and proportionately.
Until then, there is nothing more to comment on.
Your utter pish about us living in a police state has set me off... have you ever lived in a police state? I have! And let me tell you - it's
nothing like the UK!
And mob-rule... ! Are you 12?
Finally, my best wishes go out to the family and friends of the young girl who has died.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
More proof... as if any were needed... that you are an arse!
To use a tragic incident such as this to push your obvious anti-police sentiments disgusts me (based on your previous nonsense thread about Prince Harry / Police speeding).
By all means, come back to us once the incident has been investigated and feel free to post your reactions based on the OUTCOME.
Until then, it may be an idea to keep your trap shut and stop peddling your infantile 'I'll believe whatever I'm told' crap.
For what it's worth, I too will be mightily pissed off if it transpires that a young girl died due to an illegal act committed by a Police Officer. I would also hope that he/she be dealt with accordingly and proportionately.
Until then, there is nothing more to comment on.
Your utter pish about us living in a police state has set me off... have you ever lived in a police state? I have! And let me tell you - it's nothing like the UK!
And mob-rule... ! Are you 12?
Finally, my best wishes go out to the family and friends of the young girl who has died.
There was a traffic patrol car a few months ago repeatedly over several days, driving without any lights on at all on the dual carriageway even though
it was dark and the city’s streetlights were on., no doubt trying to sneak up on folk.
We also have a lot of emergency vehicles (mainly ambulance cars) that are thundering down the streets not using their sirens, I can believe the 100mph
in that article from what I’ve seen here.
Media sensationalism????? Thats what the media do every day of the week in nigh on every story they print. But are you seriously trying to defend the
police officer on this one?? Thats singular police officer not plural!!
From the article.......
"Police officers driving in marked patrol cars are instructed to use their sirens and flashing lights when responding to a 999 call or attempting
to pull over a motorist."
So if its found that the officer not only didnt have his blues n two's going, but also didnt have his headlights going (which is an offence in
its own!!!) dont you think this cop should be facing a minimum of death by dangerous driving?? Personally i'd like to see a charge of
manslaughter myself if its found to be true!!!
Irrespective of what his true speed was it was obviously way in excess of what was appropriate for the road conditions, especially as he wasn’t responding to an emergency
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
Media sensationalism????? Thats what the media do every day of the week in nigh on every story they print. But are you seriously trying to defend the police officer on this one?? Thats singular police officer not plural!!
From the article.......
"Police officers driving in marked patrol cars are instructed to use their sirens and flashing lights when responding to a 999 call or attempting to pull over a motorist."
So if its found that the officer not only didnt have his blues n two's going, but also didnt have his headlights going (which is an offence in its own!!!) dont you think this cop should be facing a minimum of death by dangerous driving?? Personally i'd like to see a charge of manslaughter myself if its found to be true!!!
quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider
Bring back mob rule... it's safer!
... but didn't work in South Park!
An excellent post scootz, I totaly agree.
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
Media sensationalism????? Thats what the media do every day of the week in nigh on every story they print. But are you seriously trying to defend the police officer on this one?? Thats singular police officer not plural!!
From the article.......
"Police officers driving in marked patrol cars are instructed to use their sirens and flashing lights when responding to a 999 call or attempting to pull over a motorist."
So if its found that the officer not only didnt have his blues n two's going, but also didnt have his headlights going (which is an offence in its own!!!) dont you think this cop should be facing a minimum of death by dangerous driving?? Personally i'd like to see a charge of manslaughter myself if its found to be true!!!
Every person - no matter what their occupation - should be entitled to their day in court for a homicide before the press or public judge their
guilt.
I think the real test will be whether, if found guilty of whatever, the sentence will be the same as one given to Joe Bloggs for the same offence.
In fact as a public guardian any sentence should be significantly heavier and if its not, or is lighter ,you might have reason to complain about a
"Police" state.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
IF it's found to be true. Until the investigation is complete, then this is pure speculation.
Quite why people take stories in the press (and especially in a gutter rag like the Mail) as factual I just can't comprehend. Either there is a naivety epedemic sweeping the nation, or people simply belive what suits them best, never mind the facts.
I also completely fail to understand how anyone would think that attacking a police office with bricks is acceptable, and that the police defending themselves is not. Are they just suppose to stand around getting pelted until the scumbag runs out of bricks?
This is a seriously tragic incident, but at the moment very few facts are known. Jumping to conclusions that simply suit your own views helps no one.
Paul,
Sorry I didn't format that very well, the first paragraph was in reply to you, the rest of the ramblings were just my views on this.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Paul,
Sorry I didn't format that very well, the first paragraph was in reply to you, the rest of the ramblings were just my views on this.
I might be missing the point here, but isn't a forum a place to express opinions? I don't know of the original poster's similar
threads, but it strikes me only as his own opinion - to which he is entitled. The "mob rule" and "police state" comments were, I
think, just banter.
My own view is that I doubt you could place any reliance on the speed of the police car, whether it's light were on or the distance the poor girl
was thrown based on witness statements, who were clearly upset. The point however is that the police car did hit the poor girl - so it must have been
going too fast for the situation. End of, surely! If, and I mean if, in addition it turns out that he had no blues and twos, or lights, then I hope
they nail him to the wall.
quote:
Originally posted by contaminatedThe point however is that the police car did hit the poor girl - so it must have been going too fast for the situation.
Mind you I have to concede the spelling of the original thread is a nice touch 
quote:
Originally posted by contaminated
I might be missing the point here, but isn't a forum a place to express opinions? I don't know of the original poster's similar threads, but it strikes me only as his own opinion - to which he is entitled. The "mob rule" and "police state" comments were, I think, just banter.
My own view is that I doubt you could place any reliance on the speed of the police car, whether it's light were on or the distance the poor girl was thrown based on witness statements, who were clearly upset. The point however is that the police car did hit the poor girl - so it must have been going too fast for the situation. End of, surely! If, and I mean if, in addition it turns out that he had no blues and twos, or lights, then I hope they nail him to the wall.
quote:
Originally posted by contaminated
The point however is that the police car did hit the poor girl - so it must have been going too fast for the situation. End of, surely!
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by contaminatedThe point however is that the police car did hit the poor girl - so it must have been going too fast for the situation.
Eh - so all those guys who are trained accident investigators have been wasting their times. Of course - all they need to know is that if someone is hit by a car then the car must have been going too fast.
What a load of shite!
That's the whole point... WE DON'T KNOW!
You're right, and it's wrong to have a speculative discussion, or an opinion about anything - it leads to the need for forums like this. In
future I will wait for the Police to investigate fully before commenting.
I would however add to your sentiments for the girl and her poor family - and I'll concede, for the officer, if it turns out he was lawful in his
actions.
It's not wrong to have discussion. Discussion is good!
What's not good is when someone (and I'm not referring to you) uses such tragic, and uninvestigated, incidents to be Judge, Jury and
Executioner.
The OP has already demonstrated in another thread that he is prepared to take the word of the tabloid media as gospel when it suits his agenda of
Police-bashing.
I'm not a Police apologist... if wrong doing has been done, then offenders must be punished accordingly.
quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
Terrible tragedy, loss of a young life. Copper probably distraught too. Really bad all round. No lights - sounds very odd.
Personally I wouldn't have my 16 year old daughter wandering the streets in a gang at 11:30 pm the night before her GCSEs.
Chasing after stolen cars on an estate, gangs of youths, etc, blame our broken society.
quote:
Originally posted by asn163
quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
Terrible tragedy, loss of a young life. Copper probably distraught too. Really bad all round. No lights - sounds very odd.
Personally I wouldn't have my 16 year old daughter wandering the streets in a gang at 11:30 pm the night before her GCSEs.
Chasing after stolen cars on an estate, gangs of youths, etc, blame our broken society.
I agree, this was my thoughts.
Simon
I've been restraining myself here but I feel I have to comment on this a follows:
1. The police have a very hard job to do. I wouldn't want to do it it would be too stressful/dangerous/difficult and too easy to make a
mistake.
2. The people who do the job of trying to ensure that the public (you and me) are safe and protected from the bad guys/idiots, on the whole do a great
job.
3. Sometimes they might make a mistake - occasionally as in this instance it turns out tragically. I and most other people occasionally make mistakes
too - thankfully I haven't killed anyone by accident but when someone does get killed like this, the driver is usually totally distraught and
wishes it hadn't happened. I don't know the circumstances of this particular incident but I'm sure that this was not done
deliberately.
4. If you or I or a police officer is found to have been driving in an inappropriate manner, then we will be dealt with according to the law - as will
this policeman if he is found to have been driving inappropriately. We have to have faith in our system that the authorities will investigate fully.
This is one of the few countries in the world where we can have faith in the authorities to do the right thing.
5. It is not appropriate for gangs of youths to start throwing bottles and bricks at the police at any time so if they do they deserve all they get.
So to all those people who think we are living in a police state go and try living an a real police state like Zimbabwe or some of the eastern block
countries or the USA for instance.
Thank you for reading this
mark
Agree with 99% of what you put Mark - but if the newspaper report is found by the IPCC to be true - ie no sirens, but more importantly no headlights
combined with excessive speed then that to me wouldnt be a mistake but total and utter negligence on behalf of the officer.
Of course they have a tough job but they are in such a position that they should be setting the standards. There are very rightly rules for pursuits
which police drivers have to obey even if the hardened criminals use the rules against them to get away sometimes. Time will tell whats actually
happened hopefully and if its found the officer in question has broken the law they are supposed to be there to uphold then hopefully he wont be doing
the job any longer. Conversely, if he did have lights and sirens going then hopefully he'll soon be back doing the job he probably loves and can
himself recover from what he himself must be going through now.
quote:
Originally posted by kendo
She was 16 and her ex was 23!?!
So after all that, did anyway catch the debate on Radio 2? I had to go into a meeting 2 mins before
quote:
Originally posted by contaminated
I might be missing the point here, but isn't a forum a place to express opinions? I don't know of the original poster's similar threads, but it strikes me only as his own opinion - to which he is entitled. The "mob rule" and "police state" comments were, I think, just banter.
My own view is that I doubt you could place any reliance on the speed of the police car, whether it's light were on or the distance the poor girl was thrown based on witness statements, who were clearly upset. The point however is that the police car did hit the poor girl - so it must have been going too fast for the situation. End of, surely! If, and I mean if, in addition it turns out that he had no blues and twos, or lights, then I hope they nail him to the wall.
Shame they weren't about to finish their shift or their way to or from the sandwich/takeaway shop.. they'd have had the Blues and Two's on then!
quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider
Both of my recent threads have not been police bashing...
How's about this for a moral of the story-
-kids are vulnerable
-letting your kids charge around an estate at almost midnight is dangerous for their health
-if /when they get injured / killed you can't transfer all your guilt for negligently looking after your children onto some other person....
Let's face it, the kid will be potrayed as a little angel "who always wanted to go to college" etc etc and the entire shedload of blame
will be offloaded onto the police.
Of course this will totally ignore the fact that she was pegging it round an estate at almost midnight, and if she was a perfect angel "who
always wanted to go to college" then WTF hadn't the parents made sure she was at home and in bed rather than being at risk.
If her parents hadn't done such a negligent job she'd still be alive.....
Harsh but true... But of course we don't live in a society prepared to be bothered enough to expend the energy it takes to actually bring up
children....
quote:
Originally posted by MkIndy7
Shame they weren't about to finish their shift or their way to or from the sandwich/takeaway shop.. they'd have had the Blues and Two's on then!
We don`t live in a police state, for example you cannot go to jail for something you have read, oh sorry you can.
Darren
quote:
Originally posted by turbodisplay
We don`t live in a police state, for example you cannot go to jail for something you have read, oh sorry you can.
Darren
quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider however I have little doubt on past experience that this will either be swept under the carpet or the officer concerned will be let off with a wrist slapping
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider however I have little doubt on past experience that this will either be swept under the carpet or the officer concerned will be let off with a wrist slapping
No chance whatsoever. Even if the evidence shows that the officer was not negligent, it will probably be the end of his TrafPol career. If he was negligent he will be prosecuted.
quote:
For the record I applied to join the police force several years ago... I withdraw my application 3 months later after seeing the direction the country was heading in.
quote:
Originally posted by mistergrumpy
quote:
For the record I applied to join the police force several years ago... I withdraw my application 3 months later after seeing the direction the country was heading in.
You withdrew your application because of the way the country was going? So you turned down the opportunity of actually contributing and doing something about it?
Either way I imagine that your application would have been withdrawn for you based on your attitude shown on this thread.
I assume that you are the middle one of the 5 tits in your avatar!
No my application was accepted.
Who said I don't contribute? I just contribute in a different manor. Seeing the way the country was going I was not comfortable with the prospect
of using the "I was only following orders" defense.
Scootz I will not lower myself to name calling and personal insults so baiting me is only a waste of your time.
Police State ?
It depends what you mean by police state but -
You can be held without charge for 28 days and senior police want to extend this to 48 days
You can be convicted of downloading and reading (bomb-making) information from the internet even if they can't prove intention to use it.
CCTV cameras can track your car wherever it goes (except when it's stolen apparently)
The police can already demand details of your cellphone calls and there is a proposal to record details of all your landline calls and internet
surfing
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its name is probably Donald.
( I have no problem with individual rank and file police )
quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider
Anyone remember the case of the officer test driving his new car (vauxhall vectra?) at 157 MPH on the motorway with no blues and twos who was given a stupidly lenient sentence?
quote:
Originally posted by Macbeast
Police State ?
It depends what you mean by police state but -
You can be held without charge for 28 days and senior police want to extend this to 48 days
You can be convicted of downloading and reading (bomb-making) information from the internet even if they can't prove intention to use it.
CCTV cameras can track your car wherever it goes (except when it's stolen apparently)
The police can already demand details of your cellphone calls and there is a proposal to record details of all your landline calls and internet surfing
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its name is probably Donald.
( I have no problem with individual rank and file police )
Just so I understand your point...
There's around 90,000 police officers in the UK, and you've lost all respect for the whole organisation because of the actions of a tiny
minority?
So disgusted are you with this tiny minority that you are prepared to pounce on any reported hearsay and claim it as fact in order to add weight to
your agenda of Police bashing.
You then use this to make childish claims about us living in a Police State and suggesting that mob-rule would be a better alternative.
What about the 37 Officers murdered over the last two decades whilst in the line of duty.
I can't find figures of those who were killed in other circumstances whilst on duty (accidents), but I know it's a good deal more.
And what about the numbers of Officers SERIOUSLY injured in the line of duty - we're definately into the hundreds and possibly into the
thousands.
As I said before, I'm not a Police apologist - I've dealt with some great Police staff, and I've been unfortunate enough to deal with
some very poor Police staff... I do, however, have a degree of maturity that allows me to accept this.
People like you make me puke. You, and those like you, will eventually bring this country to its knees with your crass stupidity.
Tragedies like this accident really seem to polalize us all into 2 groups: The 'I hate the police' and the 'Hey, they're only
trying to do their job' factions. I hope the police car had working recording equipment so the real evidence can be proved one way or the other.
Police cars should not do 100mph through residential areas whilst looking for a stolen car, it's dangerous. It could be that he wasn't doing
100mph, we don't know yet. When I was a firtefighter we would receive endless complaints for driving through residential areas under blues and
twos, so we were informed to switch off - even when we didn't feel it was safe to.
In our fire engine we would be called out to estates for non existant emergencies to be pelted with stones - very demoralising. Children apparently
deep in conversation would walk out infront of us on emergency calls just to cause near- or actual- accidents and run off laughing. IT HAPPENS. None
us us know what happened in this case yet.
Police state? I don't really think so. I suppose the people injured and the families of those killed in the London bombings wish the police had
had more powers, not less. If there were no gangs causing trouble the police wouldn't be there. If cars weren't stolen the police
wouldn't be looking for them, or persuing them. CCTV it has a role. 28 days for questioning (with the approval of a judge) may not be enough
when the law allows us to remain silent.
I have been on the receiving end of complaints from the public about speed used during an emergency call. People don't like it unless they are
the recipient of that help. People whose family are trapped in a burning building do not want you doing 30mph and waiting at traffic lights - they
want you now, now, now....
This poor girl has tragicly lost her life, her family must be shattered. She could have been home at that time of night , but she wasn't. The
police officer may be in shock too, his career over possibly, emotionally damaged too? - probably. There is no 'winner' only loosers.
Wikipedia -
The term police state is a term for a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political
life of the population, especially by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional
republic. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the
law and the exercise of political power by the executive.
Sounds about right, apart from "secret" don't you think ? 
But if it makes you happier - I think that the government has got the balance between individual and community freedoms wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by Macbeast
Wikipedia -
The term police state is a term for a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population, especially by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional republic. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.
Sounds about right, apart from "secret" don't you think ?
quote:
When I was a firtefighter we would receive endless complaints for driving through residential areas under blues and twos, so we were informed to switch off - even when we didn't feel it was safe to.
quote:
Originally posted by trogdor
I can't believe that people would actually complain about sirens and lights!
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
mainly product of parents who don't care and a pathetic law system that is powerless to touch them.
quote:
Originally posted by Macbeast
Wikipedia -
The term police state is a term for a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population, especially by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional republic. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.
Sounds about right, apart from "secret" don't you think ?