omega 24 v6
|
 posted on 25/4/09 at 11:23 AM |
|
|
M/Squirt accel enrichments
Well I've done a few runs now and it's getting there very slowly. I'm struggling to get above 4k revs though. I'm just away to
have another run when the lappy's charged up and I've altered the ve table manually ( was way to lean i suspect above 4k revs).
However I'm noticing that the accel never cuts in on the megalog viewer screen. i think it may be a reason for not being able to get above 4k
i.e. the momentary opening of the bodies flows to much air and the spark is blown out. Followed by backfiring in the exhaust.
It sort of makes you think it's to rich doing that ( backfiring) but the wideband says its around 14.2 afr so perhaps it's not rich at all
but just not responsive enough hence my need for the accel to kick in quicker ( maybe).
So I've posted my msq and wondered how to get the accel to be more responsive/cut in quicker. I can't get my head round the explanations
on msefi site.
Can anyone explain in layman's terms please.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
omega0684
|
| posted on 25/4/09 at 11:44 AM |
|
|
i would say that its your timing that isn't right. over the past couple of runs i had a similar problem, the car just wouldn't rev above
5000rpm, then yesterday i uploaded a new spark table as my one was just a guess and the car revved right through the range all the way to
6200-6300rpm. the top of the spark probably needs a little tweaks and the fuel as well but it made the world of difference,
there is no point trying to get a decent ve table until you know that your spark table is right, after you have a reasonable spark and fuel table then
do acceleration enrichments,
i did it this way
spark table
warm up enrichments and idle afr & idle revs
ve table
then acceleration enrichments
|
|
|
mark chandler
|
| posted on 25/4/09 at 02:08 PM |
|
|
Also when the VE table is correct you need very little enrichment. To tune you want these all set at zero, then drive around with gentle movements on
the throttle to build a map in gears.
Find a long steep hill and just keep going up and down in different gears and loads to build the map.
Regards Mark
|
|
|
BenTyreman
|
| posted on 25/4/09 at 02:15 PM |
|
|
Have you verified your timing with a timing gun? The settings looks right for a standard 60-2 Motronic style setup.
19 degrees should be a good conservative WOT advance. 14.2 AFR is quite lean. I have mine set to between 12.5 and 13.0 AFR.
The acceleration enrichment should only kick-in during throttle movement. If you go to 100% throttle at 2000 RPM, the accel enrich won't help it
rev past 4000.
I have my dwell set to 2.5 ms with a Vauxhall Ecotec coil pack. It could be possible that you have a weak spark with only 2.0 ms dwell time, but
it's hard to know without measuring it.
Warm-up enrichments are the very last thing to set-up. I would sort out your tuning in this order:
1) Basic timing table (already looks good)
2) Basic VE table (there's a strange bit at 1500 and 2500 RPM at 130-170 TPS ADC that needs smoothing)
3) Basic accel enrichments
4) Basic warm-up
Then iterate between tuning your spark and fuel tables until you are happy. Then:
5) Dial in any advanced enrichments (coolant-related air density)
6) Dial in your accel enrichments
7) Wait until your engine is stone cold (overnight) and tune your warm-up enrichments
8) Wait until your engine is stone cold and tune the cranking pulsewidths
Incidently, your coolant-related air density tapers from 100% to 90%. Doesn't this table default to 100%?
|
|
|
omega 24 v6
|
| posted on 25/4/09 at 05:04 PM |
|
|
Cheers for the replies folks.
Ben some of what you've siad has gone way over my head. I did wonder about the dwell and the other spark settings. I'd already burnt out 2
vb921's mucking about with it and was worried i'd do the same again. Maybe I'll need to have a play with it though ( any
recomendations for it the coils an x20xe ecotec one)
Also read that the std vr pick up gap on the block could be too far away ( but don't know how in the hell I could mod it)
Been out today again and the areas around the 1500 and 2500 rpm are gradually smoothing out as you say.
Still nothing reving above 4000 rpm though which is strange as it did go higher on the rollers on sva day ( no load though really).
Not sure what you mean about the coolant related air density though.
Timing with a timing gun Ben do you mean at idle or reving it up through the rev range to see whats going on. I'll need to borrow a basic gun I
think as the one I have you can dial in the advance and it doesn't seem to like/work on the wasted spark set up I have.
Mark I'm using megalog viewer and it say to leave the ego and accel on??? When you are using it. As it is the accel is not kicking in at all
anyways even when i give it full throttle from idle??? Maybe a problem I should be worried about.?
omega0684 how did you go about setting up a new spark table?? By guess work ,calculation or by trying someone elses setup?? Mines is based on a dta
table for a std xe that I was knidly sent by another member a long while back. To me it looks a reasonable table ( starting point) and Ben reckons it
look ok as well. But you never know so any advice is welcome.
Also I should add it's a v2.2 board with a vr conditioner circuit for the triggering.
Thanks all for now keep the suggestions coming as I want to enjoy the car to it's fullest ASAP
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
|
|
|
Hector.Brocklebank
|
| posted on 25/4/09 at 05:39 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
Thanks all for now keep the suggestions coming as I want to enjoy the car to it's fullest ASAP
you wont enjoy it to its fullest till you come over to the dark side and fit a bike engine
|
|
|
BenTyreman
|
| posted on 25/4/09 at 09:00 PM |
|
|
The coil I have is off a C20XEV. I think the later coils are slightly different, and may actually have some dwell control built-in, but I'm not
familiar with them at all.
I also had problems with the standard VR sensor. I found a longer Vauxhall VR sensor and made a spacer to get the right distance. At about 3000 RPM
the log showed spikes of 0 RPM.
You can fix the timing at say 10 degrees and verify that the timing is correct at idle. As you increase the revs the timing should remain almost
constant. It could retard slightly (fixable with the hardware latency option).
This is the info on coolant air density: http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Software_Manual.htm#cooldens
It doesn't have the default values on it, but I think it should be set to 100%, otherwise you could have problems tuning with MegaLogViewer (as
the coolant temp moves between 70 and 100 degrees, it weakens the mixture 10%, which isn't allowed for in the tuning algorithm). This is
actually disabled in your MSQ file, so it's OK to leave this
There is usually no problem with leaving accel enrichment on, as these records are filtered out. The exception is if you have accel enrichment that is
massively too rich. The extra richness will taint the next few readings, which are not filtered out.
If you aren't getting accel events in the log file, even when you plant the throttle, then you need to lower the TPSdot threshold. Ideally this
should be as low as possible without getting unintended accel events. Also the first value in the table should match this threshold V/s.
[Edited on 25/4/09 by BenTyreman]
|
|
|
omega 24 v6
|
| posted on 25/4/09 at 10:25 PM |
|
|
quote:
I also had problems with the standard VR sensor. I found a longer Vauxhall VR sensor and made a spacer to get the right distance. At about 3000 RPM
the log showed spikes of 0 RPM.
My log file shows no spikes what soever ben in fact to me it all looks extremely smooth for what it is at the moment. (I've attached the latest
one.
Which sensor did you use Ben?? from where or which v/x model.
If my graph in mlviewer is smooth then it may be a total loss of vr signal that causes the problem or the dwell or the timing going haywire (as a
result of the vr space or signal)
If you give me your input on the megalog file I'd be interested.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
|
|
|
omega 24 v6
|
| posted on 25/4/09 at 10:38 PM |
|
|
Ooops here's the logfile
Oh dear it won't attach it must be too big 
[Edited on 25/4/09 by omega 24 v6]
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
|
|
|
BenTyreman
|
| posted on 25/4/09 at 11:02 PM |
|
|
I have no idea what engine the sensor is off as I got it out of a pile of VR sensors. It has the same connector, length of lead and bolt pattern as
the original, but it's about 1/2 inch longer. If I had to guess, I would probably say baby Ecotec, but it could be anything - might even not be
a Vauxhall unit.
Try zipping the log file. It should have a high compression ratio on a log file. If you aren't getting spikes on the RPM trace, then it's
probably not the VR sensor. Total loss of sensor should result in 0 RPM.
|
|
|
omega 24 v6
|
| posted on 25/4/09 at 11:12 PM |
|
|
You have email Ben
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
|
|
|
