FatChapChipChop
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 01:31 PM |
|
|
Wide Band O2 Sensor and Controller .. Which One?
Hi All;
I've installed a MegaSquirt (MS2 V3) that includes O2 input (wide or narrow).
Can anyone provide a recommendation for a wideband sensor and controller that is a) good value, and b) has been done with a MegaSquirt?
Kind Regards
Drive fast, don't look back!
|
|
|
|
|
big-vee-twin
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 02:11 PM |
|
|
The default in Megasquirt is the Innovate LC1
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
|
|
|
FuryRebuild
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 02:57 PM |
|
|
I'm curious.
Do we only need the bosch sensor (and the readings it's given can be taken from the megasquirt) or do we need the gauge as well because we
can't?
Would it be reasonable to expect the rolling-road people I'm going to use to use to set mine up (whomever they are) to have the gauge, or would
I be expected to rock up with one?
Thanks
Mark
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
|
|
|
FatChapChipChop
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 04:13 PM |
|
|
Thanks .. Looking on the web for an LC1, Innovate have this product:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CE4QjBAwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
innovatemotorsports.com%2Fproducts%2Flc1.php&ei=8EOMT5zwKeKk0QXP_NjUCQ&usg=AFQjCNE3MQSAg1gRAIpZWmehcelxZbs45w
Which is a controller in-cable. This looks the simplest and most cost efficient route. Any opinions?
Cheers !!
Drive fast, don't look back!
|
|
|
matt_gsxr
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 04:23 PM |
|
|
The controller does quite a lot of work with a lambda sensor, it includes a heater controller, and some calibration stuff. I would guess that is built
into the gauge in some cases.
LC-1 talks to the MS fine. There are some stories of them failing, but I think that was very early versions.
I bought mine from MAP in the US who were best on price even including shipping and VAT.
|
|
|
FatChapChipChop
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 04:34 PM |
|
|
Thanks .. Got a link for MAP? .. Using that in Google brings up a whole host of people mapping with their LC1 !! .. 
Cheers !!
Drive fast, don't look back!
|
|
|
pjay
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 04:45 PM |
|
|
I used the Techedge 2J2 wideband system from:
http://www.trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d27.html
Very helpful guys and connected nicely into the MicroSquirt I fitted.
|
|
|
FuryRebuild
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 04:54 PM |
|
|
matt_gsxr
So if I read this correctly, we need the sensor, and the controller which manages things like heating it up, signal conditioning, etc., and the output
from the controller is fed to the megasquirt? I think I was a little naive in assuming the MS could power the sensor and just got back the 0..1v
signal.
Looking at the manual from the megabuild site (link here), there's no mention of a
controller.
Is it only necessary if you're tuning your own map?
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
|
|
|
mad4x4
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 05:29 PM |
|
|
I fitted a LC-1 to mine yesterday, you need the controller this setups up the output signals and controls the heater & calibration etc.
Scot's do it better in Kilts.
MK INDY's Don't Self Centre Regardless of MK Setting !
|
|
|
FuryRebuild
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 05:49 PM |
|
|
Found it. MS can drive a narrowband sensor, but needs the controller to communicate with wideband.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 06:53 PM |
|
|
Narrowband is essentially pointless for tuning, at best it's OK for cruise feedback (as it's used in OEM applications) but it cant be
reliably used for tuning high load levels.
MS can view the output from narrowband and wideband, MS can drive the narrowband heater with some mods but wideband needs the controller unit.
|
|
|
pjay
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 06:59 PM |
|
|
A wideband lambda set up allows you to tune your map since it gives you/the ECU an actual reading of the O2 in the exhaust.
Combine this with MegaLogViewer (or similar analyser application) and your MAP can be refined based on logs you take from drives. I used this to get
me a good map before going to the rolling road (and made the RR session shorter because there was a reasonable map to work from - so cost less).
To MS the WB Lambda controller appears as a sensor i.e. gives a voltage based on how much O2 is detected in the exhaust. A NB Lambda sensor itself
just gives a 'goldilocks' voltage i.e. too rich, too lean or 'okay'.
The Techedge 2J2 is in the list of MS supported WB Lambda controllers.
|
|
|
AntonUK
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 07:38 PM |
|
|
I have used a few of these
eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
got one on the Ginetta atm, but i'm yet to start it, but its talking to the megasquirt fine so far.
Build Photos Here
|
|
|
ashg
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 07:59 PM |
|
|
I have got an lc1 on my ms setup works very well indeed an connects straight to the ms. the only thing I wished that had done at the time was spend
that little bit extra and get the one with the display included. a because its nice to see the read out on the dash all the time and b. because the
gauge alone is a silly price compared to the price of the lc1 and the gauge together
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
|
|
|
rdodger
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 08:14 PM |
|
|
I use the Innovate MTX-L
Basically an LC-1 built into the gauge with less wiring. Works perfectly with my Megasquirt.
My tips are to make sure you wire it properly as bad earths etc can mess up the readings. Don't fit it too close to the head as they don't
like being overheated. Overheating can be common especially before you get the perfect tune.
|
|
|
matt_gsxr
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 08:57 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
matt_gsxr
So if I read this correctly, we need the sensor, and the controller which manages things like heating it up, signal conditioning, etc., and the output
from the controller is fed to the megasquirt? I think I was a little naive in assuming the MS could power the sensor and just got back the 0..1v
signal.
Looking at the manual from the megabuild site (link here), there's no mention of a
controller.
Is it only necessary if you're tuning your own map?
You've worked it all out.
Naivety is blessing, I still think I can build a car for £250.
http://www.maperformance.com/innovate-lc-1-cable-standalone-wideband-controller-with-o2-sensor.html
I wouldn't underestimate a narrowband sensor. When things are not running right it tells you whether you are too rich or too weak. Chris
Leary and me managed to get his car running nice enough with one (Zetec) using the autotune feature. I wouldn't fancy it if you are running
something that is highly strung (that you could damage running at 14.7) but for stock engines that don't mind running stoich at high output I
think it isn't a bad option to get you going, especially if you intend to do the rolling road thing to get the final tune.
Matt
|
|
|
FuryRebuild
|
| posted on 16/4/12 at 11:45 PM |
|
|
I'm definitely going to get the map sorted on the rollers - I have had great results with my pinto and the evolutionary journey it's been
through. I've spoken to Bogg brothers who (whilst don't do MS and jenveys) were happy to put me onto an associate of theirs who would work
the setup with me at Dave's rolling road.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
|
|
|
FatChapChipChop
|
| posted on 17/4/12 at 07:42 AM |
|
|
Thanks to everyone that replied, am now well on my way ..
Drive fast, don't look back!
|
|
|
jeffw
|
| posted on 17/4/12 at 07:58 AM |
|
|
Remember that the Bosch wideband sensors need to be calibrated in 'free' air pretty frequently or the readings you will see will be off.
Also they soot up so need removing and cleaning on occasions.
|
|
|
matt_gsxr
|
| posted on 17/4/12 at 08:42 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Remember that the Bosch wideband sensors need to be calibrated in 'free' air pretty frequently or the readings you will see will be off.
Also they soot up so need removing and cleaning on occasions.
How often do you recalibrate the O2 sensor on your everyday car Jeff?
I think if you are overfueling and the sensor doesn't get that hot then this can be a problem.
Cleaning isn't recommended in the instructions.
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 17/4/12 at 09:31 AM |
|
|
Yep, definitely no cleaning of sensors (if it needs cleaning you can assume you've a problem and it shouldn't be running in that
environment). I've re-calibrated my one 3 times in 6 years and never once seen a change in output.
(Regular use car, mounted 400mm from the turbo exit). Tip never been sooted despite idling at 14:1.
[Edited on 17/4/12 by coyoteboy]
|
|
|
pjay
|
| posted on 17/4/12 at 05:10 PM |
|
|
Also depends on how the sensor is mounted. Preferably not vertical or horizontal - if you see what I mean):
http://wbo2.com/lsu/position.htm
|
|
|
jeffw
|
| posted on 17/4/12 at 08:13 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Remember that the Bosch wideband sensors need to be calibrated in 'free' air pretty frequently or the readings you will see will be off.
Also they soot up so need removing and cleaning on occasions.
How often do you recalibrate the O2 sensor on your everyday car Jeff?
I think if you are overfueling and the sensor doesn't get that hot then this can be a problem.
Cleaning isn't recommended in the instructions.
The Lamda on your every day car isn't a wideband so doesn't have the same issue. The instructions tell you to do regular free air
calibrations (ie out of the exhaust). By cleaning I mean putting a blow torch on the sensor to clean off the soot.
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 17/4/12 at 11:37 PM |
|
|
Actually the lambda sensor on many (most?) modern cars are indeed wideband sensors (UEGO).
If you're not getting the sensor hot enough to clean the soot off it's not very well placed in the exhaust, it should be as close to the
ports as possible without overheating and you shouldn't be running rich enough to get it sooty. That's kinda the benefit of a wideband
sensor - you can tune the engine so there's very little soot production in the first place.
Just to mention a couple, the VAG group have these wideband sensors in operation:
030 906 262 G
030 906 262 J
fitted to a whole stack of cars past about 2002
[Edited on 18/4/12 by coyoteboy]
|
|
|
