Steve Lovelock
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| posted on 27/7/06 at 02:36 PM |
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MSnS - Can it be done by me?
Hello,
I have a Vauxhall 16V redtop engine and the standard sensors etc along with a set of GSXR 1000 TBs and its TPS, MAP & air box temp sensor. I am
making an inlet manifold and have a Vicki Green wiring loom. I understand that I need a fuel pump with a swirl pot such as a Golf GT1 pump. I can
solder but have never soldered a PCB. I have no prior knowledge of electronics but I am not entirely daft. So, with the scene set my questions
are:
1) Is it a realistic prospect for me to buy all the bits I need, solder them together and make a car that drives well?
2) If the answer is yes then what do I need to buy to make it work, what can I expect to pay and where would be a good place to buy it from?
Long winded question, sorry.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 27/7/06 at 02:49 PM |
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Soldering is a skill that can be learned - like everything else it's a matter of practice and attention to detail.
You could try buying a self-assembly kit or two from Maplins, together with an electronics soldering iron and solder, and see how you get on. Buy a
simple one, then something more challenging, and if you're successful then DIY Megasquirt is a possibility.
The down-side is that things do go wrong, and you'll have to sort them out for yourself. This usually involves a test meter (also cheap from
Maplins) and a fair bit of brain work.
Maplins are on-line so you can cruise through their offerings, or get one of their catalogues.
But in the end - you get a warranty if someone else builds it, and it's one less concern when you're trying to get the complete system
working.
Also, I believe that MSnS is very experimental, and getting fuel injection AND ignition working at the same time, when neither of them have been set
up at all, is a "challenge". You will need someone with experience to get you going...
But what the hell - go for it, if you feel the need!
rgds,
David
[Edited on 27/7/06 by David Jenkins]
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 27/7/06 at 03:01 PM |
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I recommend Glens Garage in the US to buy your MS kit from if you are building yourself. Mine took about two weeks to arrive and I had to pay VAT at
the post office but it was still quite a bit cheaper than buying in the UK. If you want a ready-made one then try http://www.extraefi.co.uk here in
the UK.
David is absoutely right, you should get hold of a cheap electronics kit from Maplin or similar and have a go. If you're confident however then
you could always go straight for the MS but build the stimulator and relay boards first to get a bit of practice before you get to the tricky stuff.
The instructions on the MS site are excellent and it's hard to go wrong, but you do need to have done a lot of reading to understand what
decisions to make while building, especially for the MSnS-E extensions.
David is also spot on with it being nigh-on impossible to convert to fuel and spark in one go. You should keep your exsting ignition set-up while you
get the fuelling sorted and only when that's perfect move on to spark from the megasquirt too.
I'd say go for it though, I'm half way through doing my pinto and the work on the bodies, manifold and electronics has all be perfectly
straight forward.
Lots of help here if you need it too 
[Edited on 27/7/06 by matt_claydon]
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BKLOCO
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| posted on 27/7/06 at 03:32 PM |
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The Above two answers are correct regarding getting experience in electronic assembly/soldering.
However I don't necessarily agree about not doing the ign/fueling at the same time.
I did both at the same time with very little trouble.
I do have electrical/electronics experience but had very little knowledge of Fuel injection or ECUs before I started.
It's all about reading and asking questions about the bits you don't understand.
The only reason I would not go for both spark and fuel at the same time is if you are unsure as to the running of your engine.
ie. Have you seen/heard it running.
(You dont want to find yourself blaming your ECU for something it's not responsible for.)
Megatune is capable of generating a rough map that will start your engine and simply setting the timing map to a flat 10 deg BTDC will run the engine
safely untill you can adjust it.
You must remember our cars are very light and over powered. Therefore you can get away with murder on the tuning that on a heavier car would show up
as flat spots etc.
For example I haven't even bothered setting the acceleration enrichment yet as the car accelerates fine without that parameter even being
switched on.
I second the sentiment regarding purchase from the states.
It's even cheaper if you have a friend/contact in America that can send it to you as a "gift" That way you avoid import duty.
[Edited on 27-7-06 by BKLOCO]
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want!!! 
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ed_crouch
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| posted on 27/7/06 at 08:42 PM |
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I have used Glens Garage, and he is a top guy. Based in Athens, Alabama. I bought one whilst I was seconded out there. The only trouble was that USPS
(US postal service) made a hash of delivering it.
Ed.
I-iii-iii-iii-ts ME!
Hurrah.
www.wings-and-wheels.net
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Steve Lovelock
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| posted on 28/7/06 at 01:21 AM |
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Well, as it would happen I am on holiday in the states for a few weeks so I could get a kit posted to me. But after looking at the web site I am
completely foxed to know what I would need. Any suggestions please?
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 28/7/06 at 07:11 AM |
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MS1 V3.0 Complete kit
Stimulator kit
Relay board kit (to simplify wiring, recommended but not essential)
An extra VB921 coil driver chip if you want to run wasted spark using MSnS-E
9 pin serial cable for connecting to PC/laptop
[Edited on 28/7/06 by matt_claydon]
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Steve Lovelock
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| posted on 28/7/06 at 02:30 PM |
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Thanks Matt,
Outside of the core ECU bits and bobs listed what else do I need and any ideas on how much it might all cost? I don't have any leads with the
engine so I know I need them but I am not sure what the coil packs are or where I should get them from and then there is the fuel regulator, can I get
one of these from a breakers yard? Have I missed anything else?
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 28/7/06 at 06:27 PM |
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To give you some idea of cost, I went to a decent local scrappy and took an EDIS, coil pack and position sensor off a K-reg Escort for the grand total
of £9-odd.
David
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Steve Lovelock
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| posted on 2/8/06 at 05:00 PM |
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Hello again,
I am getting my head round the various bits I need and have come across this cable to connect the relay board to the ECU at $70. Is it worth it?
Couldn't I get a standard cable for much less or should I just accept that it makes sense?
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirti-relay-cable-p-47.html
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paulf
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| posted on 2/8/06 at 08:43 PM |
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You dont really need to buy a cable like that,but it will make it easier if you use the relay board .I just bought the 37 pin plug and made my own
cable up to fit the car and didnt use the relay board interface.It is a bit fiddly soldering some of the connections but will only cost about £4 for
the connector plug and you can use thinwall cable removed from a scrap loom.If using the relay board you will need a pair of plugs but still a lot
cheaper.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Lovelock
Hello again,
I am getting my head round the various bits I need and have come across this cable to connect the relay board to the ECU at $70. Is it worth it?
Couldn't I get a standard cable for much less or should I just accept that it makes sense?
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirti-relay-cable-p-47.html
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 2/8/06 at 09:02 PM |
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The kits I bought (glens garage) came with the 37 pin connectors for the cable so all I had to do was buy a load of wire from maplin and solder it all
up. Only came with one connector cover though so need to find somewhere that sells DB37 hoods (discontinued in maplin  )
The pre-made cables are probably a bit more robust though and would save quite a bit of time and effort if you've got the cash. Does some like a
lot of money though - not very 'locost'!
[Edited on 2/8/06 by matt_claydon]
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Steve Lovelock
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| posted on 3/8/06 at 02:51 PM |
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Ok, getting there.
Next question:
I intend to buy the extra VB921 and set up a wasted spark coil pack system.
But, I dont have any coil / spark plug leads etc and only a standard redtop coil. So I assume I remove the distributor and blank it off and then go
and buy a suitable coil pack & leads. If this is correct, what car can I source these bits from? (And at what likely cost?)
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paulf
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| posted on 3/8/06 at 08:50 PM |
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The easy way would be to buy a ford coilpack as fitted to most of the modern fords such as mondeos and focuses and get leads to suit your engine.If
you buy them from a breakers then it shouldnt be any more than £10 and you could find the coil leads best suited to your engine and coil mounting
position if you measure the length before hand.
Paul.
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oioi
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| posted on 4/8/06 at 08:56 AM |
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dont bother with the ford coil pack
go to local scrappy and get a coil pack from a Vx redtop or similar, your existing leads will then fit.
i got one of ebay for 99pence
i then had to go to a scrappy as i blew the first one up, paid a fiver for the coil pack.
That is the Curse of Speed which has plagued me all my life I am a slave to it. On my tombstone they will carve,
"IT NEVER GOT FAST ENOUGH FOR ME." - Hunter S Thompson
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