cd.thomson
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 09:38 AM |
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R1 TBs - XE engine, what goes inbetween?
I'm getting an inlet flange from shorttrack and I already have the TBs and standard connecting rubbers which I intend on passing over to my
fabricator.
He does all sort of work, including bits for the car, but hasn't made an inlet manifold before. It'll be made from mild steel and painted
on the outside in black I imagine. The ports are wider than the spacing on the TBs, so the pipes will have to compensate for this.
Are there any tips I can give him, he'll basically make what I tell him too but if I miss something so will he  .
What have XE owners done about the top altenator mount, he wont be able to make an attachment for that as I wont be able to give accurate enough
information?
I intend on using alpha-n with megasquirt to run the engine, but should i ask him to put in a MAP takeoff pipe into the manifold?
Thanks for all advice 
Craig
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omega0684
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 09:41 AM |
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what year TB's are they, if they are 2003 they can be respaced to suit a manifold
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 09:44 AM |
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I dont think they can be respaced as I looked into this originally (and kicked myself for not getting some GSXRs)
I'd rather take a slight performance hit with the slightly different tube lengths than go through the hassle of respacing anyway  . Bogg
Bro's manifold features two bent tubes as standard I think.
Thanks for the info though Alex.
[Edited on 19/8/09 by cd.thomson]
Craig
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 10:10 AM |
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If you have the later ones that combine two throttles into one casting, you can still re-space the two castings so you don't end up with
ridiculous tight bends on the outer ports.
Most of the manifolds I have seen have so called "cheated" bends, where the port meets the end of the port runner at quite a nasty angle
because there isn't enough room to get a full bend in. It honestly seems like a waste of time using throttle bodies if the manifold is going to
rob half the gains.
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 10:12 AM |
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isn't respacing a right headache? I'm trying to avoid hassle at the minute because its stressing me out enough already
I'd need to fabricate a new fuel rail for a start, and I wouldn't have the foggiest!
Craig
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goodall
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 10:19 AM |
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http://www.wallaceracing.com/runnertorquecalc.php
should give basic idea to tune the lengths and widths so can tune to a specific rpm range rather having a short ultra length only suitable for a F1
engines
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blakep82
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 10:24 AM |
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the inlet on your cylinder head is vertical isn't it? or at an angle? mine is at 60 degrees, which was useful. i used 45 degree exhaust bends,
an the outer ones i twisted in to help line up a bit better with the carbs
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 10:24 AM |
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16.8 inches long to get peak torque at 5000rpm 
yes the inlet sounds the same as your ecotec Blake, I wasn't planning on needing any angle at all off the plate, just shooting straight up at
about 60 degrees - shouldnt really have to worry about fuel starvation so much with TBs.
[Edited on 19/8/09 by cd.thomson]
Craig
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blakep82
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 10:37 AM |
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theres how mine are done, the outer pipes are twisted in slightly to help line up with the outer carbs. though you can't really see that from
the photo.
thats how i did them originally, but caused all sorts of problems with my chassis. i made it before the engine went anywhere near the car. i guess you
could use some 20 degree exhaust bent on the outer two to help line it up better
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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James
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 10:37 AM |
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I was under the impression that Blackbird TB's were the same spacing as the XE engine.
Would they not save you a load of hassle and allow you a more straightforward manifold.
Cheers,
James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 10:40 AM |
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ohh that sounds interesting James I look into it, fingers crossed google will have the answers.
Craig
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goodall
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 10:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
16.8 inches long to get peak torque at 5000rpm
i know seems bloody long, but there is about 3 or 4 inches in the head and the body going be 2 or 3 inches at least, so pipes need be 9 or use ram
pipes get the length just right, ie make the intake too short on purpose and then play about. as its from the end (closed valve) to open air that the
self supercharging resonance will occur. its same as exhaust header or extractors, the are tuned to draw gas out at a certain rpm band
[Edited on 19/8/09 by goodall]
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 11:31 AM |
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okay so looking at about 8 inches for the actual manifold then if I factor in the standard rampipes, thats good to know. Probabily not a good idea to
get the shortest manifold I can then .
James, you were on to something but I can only find information on the blackbird carbs being right rather than the TBs. Theres one thread on the TBs
and it mentions in passing that they do need respacing.
Craig
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andrew-theasby
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 04:24 PM |
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Theyre not an exact match but quite close. Theyre burried in the back of the garage at the mo but 95mm between centres seems to ring a bell and 100mm
for the head i think. HTH.
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 05:47 PM |
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there are some on ebay at the mo, would I require the cold start valve?
Craig
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andrew-theasby
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 06:00 PM |
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Dont think so, but ive not run mine yet so dont quote me
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 06:23 PM |
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cheers,
heres the
linky
are these the right ones?
does anything unusual have to be done with them? Do you happen to remember when looking if its basically a case of having a straight manifold with
these as compared to the pyramidal manifold with the R1s?
thanks for all the help
Craig
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andrew-theasby
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| posted on 19/8/09 at 10:41 PM |
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They look the same as mine. If you get em, worth asking if hes got the ram pipes and mounting rubbers as theyre quite rare to come across on their
own, and maybe even the airbox if you wanted to butcher it. Youll still have a slight "pyramid" effect due to the 5mm difference between
centres, which makes 7.5mm offset on the outer bodies. Not sure how much better this is than your R1 tb's but its near enough for me.
[Edited on 19/8/09 by andrew-theasby]
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 20/8/09 at 12:23 PM |
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where has everyone fitted their air temperature sensors? is that built into the manifold??
If its free in the engine bay where does it live
Craig
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