phoenix70
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 10:18 AM |
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Megasquirt - Running out of patience
Hi,
Well, I'm really starting to run out of patience with my MS install, and seriously considering scrapping it and going to carbs. What would I
need to get my car going again on carbs? Originally the car was an 2L injection Pinto, so I think I will need to change the dizzy, obviously I will
need a set of carbs and a manifold, is there anything I'm forgetting about. Also please don't suggest megajolt, I really don't
want to go down that route.
Cheers
Scott
[Edited on 10/9/09 by phoenix70]
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nib1980
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 10:24 AM |
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whats the issue with megasquirt?
i'm sure someone can come round and help
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omega0684
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 10:29 AM |
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please elaborate, you have said that you are pee'd off with MS but you haven't actually said what the problems are.
what setup are you running?
what ITB's?
What MS? 1 or 2?
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phoenix70
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 10:37 AM |
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I'm running MSnS 1 on V3 board, I have ITB's on it. I'm running a JAW wideband sensor.
My basic problem is I can't get the engine to idle correctly, it starts but the idle is very erratic. Looking at megatune, the guages are
jumping all over the place. I've put my timing light on it and the engine doesn't seem to be sparking right (again very erratic) but the
WB sensor is varying between, just about right to very weak.
Lots of problems, and I've been at this for almost a year.
Just to add, I built the MS myself, so I've no idea if it is working properly or not.
Just getting pee'd off with not having the car to play with.
Cheers
[Edited on 10/9/09 by phoenix70]
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omega0684
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 10:52 AM |
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ok, not to worry, start from the beginning, what ITB's are your running, are they running std injectors and have you set up the basic constants
page correctly with the correct injector flow rate? what are the flow rates
second, what ignition set up are you using, r u running edis?
third, is the spark value on the Megatune screen the same as what you are getting on the timing gun?
is it erratically idling just during the warm up period and then settles when the engine is at running temperature?
are you running speed density or alpha-N?
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 11:00 AM |
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What are you using for the crank sensor...36-1 wheel on the crank pulley?
Erratic operation can be caused by weak or varying crank sensor signal, or electrical interference.
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phoenix70
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 11:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
ok, not to worry, start from the beginning, what ITB's are your running, are they running std injectors and have you set up the basic constants
page correctly with the correct injector flow rate? what are the flow rates
The ITB are off of a ZZR1100 bike, the injectors are the standard Pinto injectors rather than bike one. the flow rate on them is 167cc/min and that
gave me a figure of 21.9 as the required fuel. I'm pretty sure the basic constants are correct.
quote:
second, what ignition set up are you using, r u running edis?
The ignition is set up for wasted spark so driven from the MS directly to a coilpack.
quote:
third, is the spark value on the Megatune screen the same as what you are getting on the timing gun?
Not sure on this one, I was trying to check this last night but it was jump all over the place.
quote:
is it erratically idling just during the warm up period and then settles when the engine is at running temperature?
Nope erratic all the time.
quote:
are you running speed density or alpha-N?
Speed density
[Edited on 10/9/09 by phoenix70]
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phoenix70
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 11:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
What are you using for the crank sensor...36-1 wheel on the crank pulley?
Erratic operation can be caused by weak or varying crank sensor signal, or electrical interference.
Yes, using a 36-1 wheel on the crank
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blakep82
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 11:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by phoenix70
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
What are you using for the crank sensor...36-1 wheel on the crank pulley?
Erratic operation can be caused by weak or varying crank sensor signal, or electrical interference.
Yes, using a 36-1 wheel on the crank
whats your crank sensor held on by? what is the bracket made of etc? could be that the sensor is vibrating away from the trigger wheel, missing teeth
etc.
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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omega0684
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 11:21 AM |
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what is your MAP reading at idle?
also have you balanced the throttle bodies?
[Edited on 10/9/09 by omega0684]
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phoenix70
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 11:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
[whats your crank sensor held on by? what is the bracket made of etc? could be that the sensor is vibrating away from the trigger wheel, missing teeth
etc.
I made a 3mm steel bracket to hold the sensor, it doesn't look like it is moving.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 11:31 AM |
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go on show us a log and the .msq, you know you want to.
You can't trust O2 gauges when you have uneven sparking. I know this from experience. The problem is that they measure O2 (yes, obvious I
know) which increases when you have a miss-fire.
So, lean gives high O2, lean miss-fire gives high O2, rich missfire gives high O2.
Surely we can sort this out.
Matt
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phoenix70
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 11:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
go on show us a log and the .msq, you know you want to.
You can't trust O2 gauges when you have uneven sparking. I know this from experience. The problem is that they measure O2 (yes, obvious I
know) which increases when you have a miss-fire.
So, lean gives high O2, lean miss-fire gives high O2, rich missfire gives high O2.
Surely we can sort this out.
Matt
I'm at work atm so I'll upload the msq and log files later today.
Cheers guys for the help, I'm really at the end of my tether with this.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 11:37 AM |
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I am a newbie at MS but I thought Alpha-N was the way to go with throttle bodies.
Are the TB's nicely balanced (I know this is difficult when you don't have a smooth idle).
Are the spark plugs all the same colour.
Does it rev up.
Now I'm interested!
Matt
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phoenix70
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 11:41 AM |
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I bought a carb balancer to balance the TB's, so they as well balanced as I can get considering the idle situation.
I'm sure the MAP is sitting about 50kpa at idle, but I will confirm this later.
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omega0684
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 11:52 AM |
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i think that matt has got the right idea here, even 50kpa is quite high at idle,i always thought you should see around 30kpa at idle, when i did my
conversion i was getting MAP values between 60-70kpa so i went to alpha-N and after a few initial niggles got it set up pretty sweet.
maybe its the way to go for you too? i found that i had to run the engine at a slightly higher idle of about 850-900rpm, rather than 750-800rpm on the
carbs.
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clairetoo
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 04:32 PM |
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Are you using proper shielded cable for the crank sensor ?
Also - 3mm sounds a bit weedy for the sensor bracket , I make mine from at least 12mm ally !
I would also dump speed density - it just wont work with throttle bodies . I have mine on alphaN and can have the tickover as low as 500 rpm 
I would also check the accell enrichment settings - if they are too low , it can cut in intermittently causing erratic mixture readings .
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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flak monkey
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 05:31 PM |
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Most common problemfor erratic sparking is interference on the vr sensor signal.
Is your cable to the sensor sheilded?
Is the sensor wired the right way around? (if not it will cause exactly those issues you describe)
Is the vr sensor cable routed away from all other high voltage cables? Including the coil trigger cables and the injector triggers?
Do you have the wheel decoder settings corect? They should be as shown here:
Set the vr sensor to 9 teeth after the missing tooth at tdc.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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phoenix70
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 07:43 PM |
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Well I've had another go at it, after reading all the reply I've had. I've looked at the VR sensor, and the bracket is rock solid,
so no movement there, check the wiring, and swapped the cables round, still not difference (the cable is shielded). The wheel decoder setting are
correct from my understanding.
I've taken the advice given and switched to Alpha-N rather than speed density.
I'm sure my real problem is down to spark, I pulled a couple of plugs out (3 & 4) and they are absolutely black with soot, so obviously
running way too rich. I put my timing light on to each cylinder and found the 1 is interminted but reasonably regular, 2 is better that 1 but still
seems to miss a few sparks, 3 and 4 are showing almost no spark at all, just the occasional flash.
Don't know if this help at all, but I really need some help. Is it possible my coil pack is on its way out?
Cheers again
Scott
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flak monkey
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 08:03 PM |
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Dodgy coil pack or leads then?
If you are getting intermittent sparks then you need to fix that first
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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turboben
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| posted on 10/9/09 at 08:18 PM |
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Do you have the dwell set right? If the coil drivers arent getting hot you could try increasing the dwell a bit. Does it fire the cyls when you nail
it? That would show the spark is powerful enough. If you want to check the timing you can set the fixed angle to say 15 degrees and then check. It
should be rock solid.
Hope this helps!
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phoenix70
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| posted on 16/9/09 at 11:45 AM |
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Still running out of patience.
I've fitted another coil pack, this made no difference. I've adjusted the VR sensor to ensure it's not too far away, still no
difference. I've swapped the HT leads around (they are brand new), still no difference
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 16/9/09 at 01:18 PM |
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Did you post any log files? Have you checked for any reset events?
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flak monkey
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| posted on 16/9/09 at 01:20 PM |
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Post both your MSQ and logs and we can probably help more 
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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phoenix70
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| posted on 16/9/09 at 01:43 PM |
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Ok, I'll post up the msq file, I think I know how to create a log file, but is there any particular point I should start and stop logging?
Cheers.
Scott
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