FuryRebuild
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 05:10 PM |
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Fury transmission tunnel tank design - pics and criticism required
Dear All
I've just about finished the CAD for my new fury tank for my IRS fury.
I've designed the tank to fill the transmission with about an inch clearance to the prop shaft. My reasons to do this were:
- the tank sits right out at the back, making for high polar moment of inertia, which really affects handling - after all the tank weighed 6kg and
would hold 25kg of fuel.
- the tank is very high up, so the mass is in the wrong place
- the tank was rusting as well
- I'm going from carbs to fuel injection, so it's a good opportunity to upgrade
I'm making it from 1.5mm stainless to be strong and also it won't rust. I've also planned to get the robot press brake to do as much
folding as possible - each fold is a lot less effort than a weld. The tank is baffled at the bottom and also at the top of the tunnel riser going into
the area where the top of the tank is. This is to ensure the pump is always immersed in fuel. The return line also goes in at the bottom and transfers
up the tunnel in a copper hard-line to empty out against the side at the top. I may make a swirl concentric snail-shell like swirl to knock some
engergy out of it, but haven't decided yet.
So, to the pictures:
this is the top of the tank. The rectangular cut-out at the bottom is where the flap gate will go, so fuel can flow down it but will struggle to get
back up. This keeps the mass lower and protects the pump from starvation under accelleration. There's another one at the bottom as well, same
principles. You may notice the series of holes at the top. This is to allow the air from the tunnel part to flow into the top part when the tank is
being filled.
 
Description
This is the tunnel part - the plate the fuel pump is attached to isn't shown - the plan is to weld up a bracket attached to the lid of this
arrangement for the demountable in-tank pump. Also attached to this plate will be the entry and exit jic-6 lines as well as the electrical
pass-through terminals. I've just about got my head around the fact that the wires are submerged. It seems to be totally standard practice.
 
Description
This is the bottom which makes up the sump the pump sits in.
 
Description
Finally, here is the completed assembly - hopefully this makes some sense to you.
 
Description
If you want to see a 3d pdf where you can rotate and scale it yourself, i've hosted it here
(link). If you click the picture, it downloads the pdf.
So, what are your thoughts - have I missed something (apart from the filler pipe - not designed yet).
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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blakep82
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 05:26 PM |
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fuel tank and inch round your prop shaft, wouldn't be my choice...
- keep it at the back (even in the event of a rear end shunt, it may still split but at least its further away from you)
- find ways to lower the mass, even if it means having two separate tanks down the rear corners, with a T connecting the outlets up
- aluminium (stainless will be heavy, reduced mass, no rusting. ok it will still corrode but not the same way) and more baffles
- injection won't make any difference to this, so good luck 
is yours different to this one?
 looks nice and low?
[Edited on 3/12/12 by blakep82]
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 05:43 PM |
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Hi Blakep82
The fury tank (at least mine) used to sit higher and was the most far back thing on the car - totally the wrong place for that mass.
Ali is an option, but I can't weld that myself.
I was also thinking of using the tank as a buck for a mold for a carbon fibre tank instead. I'd definitely get the weight down that way, and
there are plenty of tank sealing kits so the fuel doesn't harm the CF/kevlar.
With regards to the prop - it doesn't wrap around, but sits about 1-2" lower than the tank. I'll also put a prop-catcher in there as
well. The fury has ally panels between me and the tank and nothing between the tank and the ground. there's little difference between a split
tank hitting the ally panels at the back of the seat, and a split tank hitting the transmission tunnel sides.
[Edited on 3/12/12 by FuryRebuild]
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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scudderfish
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 05:43 PM |
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If the prop lets go and starts to flail around in the tunnel, will the tank survive?
ETA: Ah, we cross posted You have a prop catcher.
[Edited on 3/12/12 by scudderfish]
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 05:44 PM |
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it will with stainless - very tough.
I don't hear of props going often, but will be putting a prop-catcher in anyway.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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JoelP
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 06:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
it will with stainless - very tough.
I don't hear of props going often, but will be putting a prop-catcher in anyway.
Id have a couple of prop catchers myself, because stainless or not, the tank will do nothing at all to stop the prop. But, im with you on the idea,
you just need to mitigate the risk of the prop.
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 06:17 PM |
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does anyone know anyone who's lost a prop? I've had this prop for years and it's taken a lot without issue. It's also rated
for loads of torque and one that i bought from Fisher when I originally went for the car.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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HowardB
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 06:23 PM |
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I lost a prop in mine, but then if you look at the pictures in my archive you can see that I lost quite a lot more. The damage from the prop was not
too serious, but I would not want that anywhere near the tank,...
As a wild idea, are you planning on having any passengers? You can see where that question is leading too,.... 
hth
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 06:28 PM |
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Hi Howard
I seem to remember replying in your thread offering commiserations after that one - you did a proper job. I lost it at harewood and snapped a wheel
off, as well as the standard radiator damage and a lot of other carnage as well.
I think with a trusted prop and prop-catchers in there I'll be safe.
I do occasionally have passengers, but putting the tank there wouldn't pass scrutineering - the tank must be able to drain to the ground rather
than be in the passenger compartment. The new ECU and PDM will be going infront of the seat under the passenger's knees anyway.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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snapper
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 07:27 PM |
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I know of 1 that let go
I have put steel plate on the inside of my tunnel where the front UJ is
Prop catcher is a good idea
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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HowardB
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 07:54 PM |
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when you say scrutineering, is it for racing? If so, how about replacing the floor on the passenger side with the fuel cell, I know it might sound
scary but in most tin tops the rear seat is formed by the fuel tank.
If you are racing just how much fuel do you need? If you do need more to make it viable on the road, how about 2 tanks, long range in the back that
feeds the one in that is the passenger seat?
just some random thoughts,..
and yes thank you for the commiserations, all I need now is the time to finish off the wiring, and put the bonnet clips on and then she'll be
ready for an MOT,... too long on axle stands really!
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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JoelP
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 07:56 PM |
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My friend broke a prop and has a scar on his leg to prove it. I think its usually homemade/unbalanced ones that fail. Properly made it should be fine,
but with 2 well fitted prop catchers its definately fine.
Just to add the other common failure path is sprocket nut coming loose.
[Edited on 3/12/12 by JoelP]
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gavin174
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 09:43 PM |
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I had one fail
did have a very highly tuned pinto fitted thou!!!
this was bought from a well known Kitcar supply and was balanced.....
[Edited on 3/12/12 by gavin174]
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
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britishtrident
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 11:06 PM |
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Yes propshafts do go walkabout in the days gone bye an important part of doing any RWD service wass checking the coupling bolts are tight and
the condition of the UJs, also you have to consider where the prop ends after a frontal impact. The other aspect is maintenance anything that
reduces access to other units or makes a removing the component difficult or impossible isn't the way to go.
All design should follow the KIS principle Keep It Simple, you seem to have the desire to make everything as complex as possible, if there
is no real gain why suffer the pain, just because a thing can be done doesn’t make it a good idea.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 3/12/12 at 11:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
does anyone know anyone who's lost a prop? I've had this prop for years and it's taken a lot without issue. It's also rated
for loads of torque and one that i bought from Fisher when I originally went for the car.
Yes!
Back in the 70's my mate bought a 3Litre Healey and though it would be a good idea to show my how hard it took off from stationary.
He wound the engine up and dropped the clutch.
Instantly the rear UJ gave up the ghost and the propshaft hit the top of the tunnel and clattered around a bit (that's me giving the
understatement of the century that is), talk about a brown trouser moment! When I got my hearing back I called him all the Trans World Airlines herbal
infusions (Tea) that I could think of.
My humble little 1300 will have at least one, maybe two prop catchers fitted, as I have no wish to re-live the experience.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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Stott
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| posted on 4/12/12 at 07:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
I had one fail
did have a very highly tuned pinto fitted thou!!!
this was bought from a well known Kitcar supply and was balanced.....
[Edited on 3/12/12 by gavin174]
That looks like its made from exhaust tube! Is there a silencer just out of shot? Lol
Well done though, that's one for the garage wall! IVe got a pretty good trophy of a holed piston to remind me turbos, poor mapping and zetec
se's don't mix (for long)
[Edited on 4/12/12 by Stott]
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adithorp
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| posted on 4/12/12 at 10:48 AM |
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Tim Hoverds RGB Fury broke the shaft and went up in smoke as a result. Someone on here had his break on his almost new MK (?) and go up i smoke. Pif
on here had his go and it grabbed the wiring loom, ripping it all out... several othersas well.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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mcerd1
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| posted on 4/12/12 at 12:58 PM |
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going back to the tank design for a moment.....
whould it not be easier to make it in 2 parts and pipe them together ?
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HowardB
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| posted on 4/12/12 at 02:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
going back to the tank design for a moment.....
whould it not be easier to make it in 2 parts and pipe them together ?
That was my thought,.. as per rough sketch,.
rang = range,.. writing too fast 
 
fury_two_tanks
hth,..
[Edited on 4/12/12 by HowardB]
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 4/12/12 at 02:26 PM |
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I did think about two tanks, but when nearly all the work is in the CAD rather than anything else. From now on it's just a bit of welding.
And to the comment "making it complicated for the fun of it" the plan is all about packaging and placement of mass. i get to move
significant amounts of mass down and central reducing polar moment of intertia and making the car turn in better and be more controllable if the back
decides to step out.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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TimC
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| posted on 4/12/12 at 02:32 PM |
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And I thought my fuel tank was 'out there.'
I now see myself as a relative conformist. For the record, I'm not sure that the risk/reward balance is right with your design.
ETA: I'm trying to balance my mass and aid traction by placing the tank right over the axle. I know that there are big compromised involved but
that's car design for you.
[Edited on 4/12/12 by TimC]
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 4/12/12 at 02:33 PM |
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Hi TimC
Can you elaborate?
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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TimC
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| posted on 4/12/12 at 02:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
Hi TimC
Can you elaborate?
Essentially I'm copying the Procomp concept 
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 4/12/12 at 02:41 PM |
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Mine's of that concept - the plan is to just go into the transmission tunnel as well.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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JimSpencer
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| posted on 4/12/12 at 03:10 PM |
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Hi
What volume is that design then? It looks huge..
The Striker chassis is very similar to the fury and I must admit that I can see how you could use the space below the prop for a tank, I
reckon's that it would be something like 60cm long, about 18cm wide and up to 10cm high or around 10 litres of space available, not enough?
Given you've got IRS so the props not going to move, with some very good prop catcher's (you're meant to have these for
scruitineering BTW) I can see how this could work, although I would want the bottom of the tank to be very solid myself..
Certianly that's more than enough capacity for speed events
Out of interest, given it's interesting shape how would you know what amount was in it, without resorting to the 'empty to nothing and
fill with exactly what's needed' method?
The Striker in my archive started out with the tank in the same position as you had, what we did was remove that and after moving the passenger seat
40mm forward we then put a section into the alloy bulkhead and installed an 10 Litre alloy stockcar tank ( vertical type) in the resulting space
(i.e. behind the bulkhead and in front of the rear, live, axle - bottom of tank is directly above the rear tube of the chassis so well out of harms
way, access to filler is by raisng the rear deck cover)
It's about 25cm x 10cm and 35cm tall, and you can check the level with a marked stick..
It did make a noticable difference to on the limit handling though, so you're on the right track!
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